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Unable to make out if my PR status is useful

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Wd40
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Postby Wd40 » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 5:12 pm

the lynx wrote:I can assure you that SRS or CPF-equivalent payment to EP holders is unheard of in my side as well as many other companies. In fact, some MNCs don't even factor that into initial salary negotiation with incoming EP holders. So what happens when they become PRs? It can be anything.


Exactly. There in lies the crux of this discussion.
I didnt say that EP holders get CPF contribution explicitly as a seperate item in their payslip. There is no way to compare 2 peoples salaries. So there is no way to tell whether the company is assuming that CPF is being paid to the EP holder or not. Its only when the person converts to PR, the company either needs to get additional budget to pay the CPF or reduce the pay of the person.
Last edited by Wd40 on Mon, 03 Mar 2014 5:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby the lynx » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 5:13 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:
the lynx wrote:I can assure you that SRS or CPF-equivalent payment to EP holders is unheard of in my side as well as many other companies. In fact, some MNCs don't even factor that into initial salary negotiation with incoming EP holders. So what happens when they become PRs? It can be anything.

Thank you Lynx, and can I borrow your 'exasperated man' image please? :D :roll:


You mean this Jackie Chan meme?

Image

In case you want to use it next time :P
http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/epic-jackie-chan-template.png

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Postby Mi Amigo » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 5:17 pm

the lynx wrote:You mean this Jackie Chan meme?

Yeah, that's the one, thank you!

I'm getting a headache. It's like the old story of the man who hadn't seen many people from the subcontinent where he lived, and then made a sweeping statement that "All Indians walk in single file" - on the basis that whenever he'd seen a (single) Indian person, they were always doing that.
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby Mi Amigo » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 5:21 pm

Wd40 wrote:Ofcourse big MNCs like the ones that Mi Amigo works for are unlikely to do this. But those are a minority. Majority of the jobs even in those big MNCs are on payrolls of small time scrupulous vendors.

There you go making assumptions again. You know nothing about my employment history, so why make up some 'facts' about it?

For the record, before I applied for PR, I discussed the situation with my employer and we 'negotiated' the fact that they would need to make CPF contributions if my application was successful. I certainly didn't assume or just expect that this would be an automatic entitlement.
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby Wd40 » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 5:30 pm

Mi Amigo wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Ofcourse big MNCs like the ones that Mi Amigo works for are unlikely to do this. But those are a minority. Majority of the jobs even in those big MNCs are on payrolls of small time scrupulous vendors.

There you go making assumptions again. You know nothing about my employment history, so why make up some 'facts' about it?

For the record, before I applied for PR, I discussed the situation with my employer and we 'negotiated' the fact that they would need to make CPF contributions if my application was successful. I certainly didn't assume or just expect that this would be an automatic entitlement.


So you accept that you had to "negotiate" for getting the CPF contribution paid and that it is not automatic. Thats what I have been saying all this while. What if you employer didnt agree to fork out the additional amount and instead renegotiated your contract? It just means "effectively" that you were being paid the CPF contribution in your hand all this while.

Anyways, I think we both are actually on the same page its just that we are approaching it from opposite ends.
Last edited by Wd40 on Mon, 03 Mar 2014 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 5:36 pm

Mi Amigo, will you please give Wd40 your shovel, as he's really digging himself a hole of gargantuan proportions this time. :roll:

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 5:51 pm

Wd40 wrote:Yeah, I am not going to change my skills just to get into Australia. I heard fruit pickers and plumbers are in demand in Australia. But sorry, I would rather be an IT guy and work in India than a fruit picker in Australia.



Sorry to break your bubble but ,I'd rather be a fruit picker in Australia than do IT in India. Uggh! I can't imagine how any one can be stuck in traffic for an hour and a half to work in a sad office located in Electronics City and then write some sad code review or stay awake late nights to talk to someone in USA.. no thank you! I'd rather pick some apples and oranges and make an apple pie and have a beer.
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Postby Wd40 » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 5:54 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Yeah, I am not going to change my skills just to get into Australia. I heard fruit pickers and plumbers are in demand in Australia. But sorry, I would rather be an IT guy and work in India than a fruit picker in Australia.



Sorry to break your bubble but ,I'd rather be a fruit picker in Australia than do IT in India. Uggh! I can't imagine how any one can be stuck in traffic for an hour and a half to work in a sad office located in Electronics City and then write some sad code review or stay awake late nights to talk to someone in USA.. no thank you! I'd rather pick some apples and oranges and make an apple pie and have a beer.


Traffic in Sydney is just as bad. We travelled from Bondi beach in the evening at around 6PM on bus number 333 to circular quay and it took us more than an hour. Grass always looks greener on the other side.

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Postby Mi Amigo » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 6:00 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Mi Amigo, will you please give Wd40 your shovel, as he's really digging himself a hole of gargantuan proportions this time. :roll:

With pleasure. WD40 - it's available at economical rates (with no CPF payments included)...

Image

Wd40 wrote:So you accept that you had to "negotiate" for getting the CPF contribution paid and that it is not automatic.

Good grief man. Yes, I 'accept' that I negotiated about the CPF contributions. When did I ever say otherwise?

Wd40 wrote:Thats what I have been saying all this while.

Well, the thing I've been trying (so far unsuccessfully) to draw your attention to is that this sweeping generalisation is incorrect:

Wd40 wrote:For most people this is not a benefit, companies usually pay the CPF contribution directly into the hands of the EP holders.


^^^^ This is wrong on a general level, based on others' experience, even if it might be accurate for your specific industry.

Wd40 wrote:Anyways, I think we both are actually on the same page its just that we are approaching it from opposite ends.

Well if we are on the same page, your logic still eludes me. Why can't you just accept that the statement you made earlier (doubtless in good faith) was inaccurate.

Anyway, in the words of the Dragon's Den panelists...

Image
Be careful what you wish for

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 6:04 pm

Wd40 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Yeah, I am not going to change my skills just to get into Australia. I heard fruit pickers and plumbers are in demand in Australia. But sorry, I would rather be an IT guy and work in India than a fruit picker in Australia.



Sorry to break your bubble but ,I'd rather be a fruit picker in Australia than do IT in India. Uggh! I can't imagine how any one can be stuck in traffic for an hour and a half to work in a sad office located in Electronics City and then write some sad code review or stay awake late nights to talk to someone in USA.. no thank you! I'd rather pick some apples and oranges and make an apple pie and have a beer.


Traffic in Sydney is just as bad. We travelled from Bondi beach in the evening at around 6PM on bus number 333 to circular quay and it took us more than an hour. Grass always looks greener on the other side.



Sydney doesn't define entire Australia and apples don't grow on Bondi Beach, there are several beautiful places like hunter valley and the gold coast, Adelaide etc etc full of beautiful farms and the outback is a great place to be in.
btw I am posting from Sydney as we speak :cool:
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Postby Wd40 » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 6:13 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Yeah, I am not going to change my skills just to get into Australia. I heard fruit pickers and plumbers are in demand in Australia. But sorry, I would rather be an IT guy and work in India than a fruit picker in Australia.



Sorry to break your bubble but ,I'd rather be a fruit picker in Australia than do IT in India. Uggh! I can't imagine how any one can be stuck in traffic for an hour and a half to work in a sad office located in Electronics City and then write some sad code review or stay awake late nights to talk to someone in USA.. no thank you! I'd rather pick some apples and oranges and make an apple pie and have a beer.


Traffic in Sydney is just as bad. We travelled from Bondi beach in the evening at around 6PM on bus number 333 to circular quay and it took us more than an hour. Grass always looks greener on the other side.



Sydney doesn't define entire Australia and apples don't grow on Bondi Beach, there are several beautiful places like hunter valley and the gold coast, Adelaide etc etc full of beautiful farms and the outback is a great place to be in.
btw I am posting from Sydney as we speak :cool:


Good on you man. I actually loved Sydney quite a lot, compared to Singapore. My comment was more on the job v/s career discussion. I cant do something monotonous like apple picking no matter how good the pay is and how great the work conditions are. Just my personal preference. So what takes you to Sydney? On Visa 457?

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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 6:24 pm

Wd40 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:
Wd40 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:
Wd40 wrote:Yeah, I am not going to change my skills just to get into Australia. I heard fruit pickers and plumbers are in demand in Australia. But sorry, I would rather be an IT guy and work in India than a fruit picker in Australia.



Sorry to break your bubble but ,I'd rather be a fruit picker in Australia than do IT in India. Uggh! I can't imagine how any one can be stuck in traffic for an hour and a half to work in a sad office located in Electronics City and then write some sad code review or stay awake late nights to talk to someone in USA.. no thank you! I'd rather pick some apples and oranges and make an apple pie and have a beer.


Traffic in Sydney is just as bad. We travelled from Bondi beach in the evening at around 6PM on bus number 333 to circular quay and it took us more than an hour. Grass always looks greener on the other side.



Sydney doesn't define entire Australia and apples don't grow on Bondi Beach, there are several beautiful places like hunter valley and the gold coast, Adelaide etc etc full of beautiful farms and the outback is a great place to be in.
btw I am posting from Sydney as we speak :cool:


Good on you man. I actually loved Sydney quite a lot, compared to Singapore. My comment was more on the job v/s career discussion. I cant do something monotonous like apple picking no matter how good the pay is and how great the work conditions are. Just my personal preference. So what takes you to Sydney? On Visa 457?


After being in corporate life for over 10 years I've sort of concluded that I don't really give a S**** about my job, whatever that job maybe, so I'm pretty open to doing anything as long as it gives me enough money to satisfy other pleasures in life.. and I'm in Sydney just to get away from that sound "doors are closing kik kik kikk kikk kikkkkkkk"
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Postby Wd40 » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 7:25 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:
After being in corporate life for over 10 years I've sort of concluded that I don't really give a S**** about my job, whatever that job maybe, so I'm pretty open to doing anything as long as it gives me enough money to satisfy other pleasures in life.. and I'm in Sydney just to get away from that sound "doors are closing kik kik kikk kikk kikkkkkkk"


I agree, I hated that too. That monotony.I got away from it by buying a motorcycle.

I think trains are just way too safety conscious here. In Sydney there are big platform gaps and actually quite scary for small kids. There are no gates at stations like here. Yet they dont scream every 5 mins in 4 different languages to stand away from the door or to report any suspicious looking person. If those announcements stop here, half the pain of the journey is over.

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Postby beppi » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 8:41 pm

If my emplyment contract contained a statement about re-negotiations in case I become PR, I would in that case ask for a salary increase. After all, they'd have less risk of losing me due to a whim of MoM (and in addition, although I won't mention it, I also gained the possibility to resign without losing my visa, so they'd have to do more to make me stay). Of course this only works if you are good and the company actually wants to keep you!

However, when I became PR many moons ago (I think it was 1998 or so), only employee CPF contributions were deducted from my payout, employer contributions borne by the company, with no questions asked whatsoever.
I got the impression that that was the norm then and still is common now.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 03 Mar 2014 10:46 pm

You are absolutely right beppi. In fact, in my company, I'm the guy who fills out the Annex A. Our contracts don't have a renegotiation clause nor do we take out the employers share from the employee. In fact, we don't do anything at all. None of the companies across our industry do either. The vast marjority don't.


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