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Unable to make out if my PR status is useful

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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Wd40
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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 4:50 pm

beppi wrote:I became PR just to get CPF, which in my opinion is a real and great benefit.
Later, the fact that I could start a small business and stay here even when not having a job came in handy.
I never intended to buy an HDB (or any other property in Singapore).


For most people this is not a benefit, companies usually pay the CPF contribution directly into the hands of the EP holders.

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 5:15 pm

This is because most people think of spending it. I am pretty sure those like yourself who see it as a part of some investment money are in minority.
CPF is a great and safe saving account with very decent interest rates.

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Postby Mad Scientist » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 5:35 pm

OP

I will throw my hat and my 2 cents into the ring.

Laws albeit guidelines are meant to be adhered to not broken

When you apply for PR in SG like in any other country/ies there are guidelines that needed to be followed.

Eg. in OZ if you are a PR, you do not get health benefits nor any subsidy. Yes your children will have free education and pay is based on minimum wage etc. that's about it. No Super, no benefits NOTHING and job is hard to find. Years of overspend by labour has set the country into the brink of collapse
If you arrived after YR2000 the benefits are lesser

IN NZ, you are not entitled to any pension if you do not live in NZ for more than 10 years since the age of 20
Rents is high, Government housing is a shamble,

My point is you took that chance. SG Gahmen will always tinker the guidelines when the political arena does not favor them.
On top of that thanks to your fellow countrymen, it just makes the icing on the cake.
Wait till next election, the noises from the roof top seems to favour relaxing the rules

Yes, I agree , at this point of time everything stacks against you. BUT for NS issue, you have already prepared when you apply for PR hence it becomes a non issue.
Jobs, well, your chances stacks better than EP holders
If you can hold it out and ride the storm then do so.
If not leave and never come back cos NZ issue will bite your son's bum later in life
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 7:28 pm

Its so contrasting between Singapore and OZ, isnt it? In OZ, finding a job as a foreigner, just forget it. You need to be apply for PR before going and be in the country and then if you are lucky you may get a job. Also everything there is contract contract, just like London. 3 months rotating contract 6 months rotating contract. But its a mature economy and contract jobs pay better than perm. In contrast Singapore, getting job is relative much easier. For getting a job, foreigner or PR, not much difference(atleast until now). But no minimum pay, so salaries are usually peanuts unless you are a rockstar.

So net-net I agree, PR in Singapore doesnt get you much compared to say PR in Australia. But then again, you invest nothing to get a PR in Singapore except for your son losing his 2 years for NS(if you look at it as a loss, that is). In case of Australia you risk 7K AUD if its couple and a child and then risk leaving your current job and going there and looking for a job. It can be a big hit or a big miss. Singapore is kind of safe low risk low reward.

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Postby PNGMK » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 8:10 pm

Wd40 wrote:Its so contrasting between Singapore and OZ, isnt it? In OZ, finding a job as a foreigner, just forget it. You need to be apply for PR before going and be in the country and then if you are lucky you may get a job. Also everything there is contract contract, just like London. 3 months rotating contract 6 months rotating contract. But its a mature economy and contract jobs pay better than perm. In contrast Singapore, getting job is relative much easier. For getting a job, foreigner or PR, not much difference(atleast until now). But no minimum pay, so salaries are usually peanuts unless you are a rockstar.

So net-net I agree, PR in Singapore doesnt get you much compared to say PR in Australia. But then again, you invest nothing to get a PR in Singapore except for your son losing his 2 years for NS(if you look at it as a loss, that is). In case of Australia you risk 7K AUD if its couple and a child and then risk leaving your current job and going there and looking for a job. It can be a big hit or a big miss. Singapore is kind of safe low risk low reward.


Not exactly mate. If you have skills in demand (not shitty IT skills but something actually useful) you may find yourself sponsored into Australia. I've put in about 6 people (Indo and MY and one Indian) in the last five years on 457's. Half of them have stayed on and become PR's. Maybe you need to look at your skill set?

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Postby beppi » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 8:36 pm

PNGMK wrote:If you have skills in demand (not shitty IT skills but something actually useful)

C'mon, mate, don't be so harsh - not everybody can have skills as useful as sitting on a oil rig in bad weather!

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Postby PNGMK » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 8:43 pm

beppi wrote:
PNGMK wrote:If you have skills in demand (not shitty IT skills but something actually useful)

C'mon, mate, don't be so harsh - not everybody can have skills as useful as sitting on a oil rig in bad weather!


He could be one of these hundred.... but he's not because like so many of his countrymen he fell for the "IT is a great job" mantra in the 80's and 90's. In 1995 I was in IT - I remember telling my Aussie colleagues - "this is clerical work - we'll all be out of work in a decade". I left the S/W industry - went back to hardware and retrained to the downstream oil and gas industry. He's just as smart as I am and could do it but he won't.

Aussie skills list for immigration priority.

Construction Project Manager 133111 VETASSESS
Project Builder 133112 VETASSESS
Engineering Manager 133211 Engineers Australia/AIM
Production Manager (Mining) 133513 VETASSESS
Child Care Centre Manager 134111 TRA
Medical Administrator 134211 VETASSESS
Nursing Clinical Director 134212 ANMAC
Primary Health Organisation Manager 134213 VETASSESS
Welfare Centre Manager 134214 ACWA/VETASSESS
Accountant (General) 221111 CPA/ICAA/IPA
Management Accountant 221112 CPA/ICAA/IPA
Taxation Accountant 221113 CPA/ICAA/IPA
External Auditor 221213 CPA/ICAA/IPA
Internal Auditor 221214 VETASSESS
Actuary 224111 VETASSESS
Land Economist 224511 VETASSESS
Valuer 224512 VETASSESS
Ship's Engineer 231212 AMSA
Ship's Master 231213 AMSA
Ship's Officer 231214 AMSA
Architect 232111 AACA
Landscape Architect 232112 VETASSESS
Cartographer 232213 VETASSESS
Other Spatial Scientist 232214 VETASSESS
Surveyor 232212 SSSI
Urban and Regional Planner 232611

VETASSESS
Chemical Engineer 233111

Engineers Australia
Materials Engineer 233112 Engineers Australia
Civil Engineer 233211 Engineers Australia
Geotechnical Engineer 233212 Engineers Australia
Quantity Surveyor 233213 AIQS
Structural Engineer 233214 Engineers Australia
Transport Engineer 233215 Engineers Australia
Electrical Engineer 233311 Engineers Australia
Electronics Engineer 233411 Engineers Australia
Industrial Engineer 233511 Engineers Australia
Mechanical Engineer 233512 Engineers Australia
Production or Plant Engineer 233513 Engineers Australia
Mining Engineer (Excluding Petroleum) 233611 Engineers Australia
Petroleum Engineer 233612 Engineers Australia
Aeronautical Engineer 233911 Engineers Australia
Agricultural Engineer 233912 Engineers Australia
Biomedical Engineer 233913 Engineers Australia
Engineering Technologist 233914 Engineers Australia
Environmental Engineer 233915 Engineers Australia
Naval Architect 233916 Engineers Australia
Agricultural Consultant 234111 VETASSESS
Agricultural Scientist 234112 VETASSESS
Forester 234113 VETASSESS
Medical Laboratory Scientist 234611 AIMS
Veterinarian 234711 AVBC
Metallurgist 234912 VETASSESS
Physicist (Medical Physicist only) 234914 ACPSEM
Early Childhood (Pre-Primary School) Teacher 241111 NOOSR/AITSL
Secondary School Teacher 241411 NOOSR/AITSL
Special Needs Teacher 241511 AITSL
Teacher of the Hearing Impaired 241512 AITSL
Teacher of the Sight Impaired 241513 AITSL
Special Education Teachers nec 241599 AITSL
Medical Diagnostic Radiographer 251211 AIR
Medical Radiation Therapist 251212 AIR
Nuclear Medicine Technologist 251213 ANZSNM
Sonographer 251214 AIR
Environmental Health Officer 251311 VETASSESS
Occupational Health and Safety Adviser 251312 VETASSESS
Optometrist 251411 OCANZ
Chiropractor 252111 CCEA
Osteopath 252112 ANZOC
Dental Specialist 252311 ADC
Dentist 252312 ADC
Occupational Therapist 252411 OTC
Physiotherapist 252511 APC
Podiatrist 252611 APodC/ANZPAC
Speech Pathologist 252712 SPA
General Medical Practitioner 253111 Medical Board of Australia
Anaesthetist 253211 Medical Board of Australia
Specialist Physician (General Medicine) 253311 Medical Board of Australia
Cardiologist 253312 Medical Board of Australia
Clinical Haematologist 253313 Medical Board of Australia
Medical Oncologist 253314 Medical Board of Australia
Endocrinologist 253315 Medical Board of Australia
Gastroenterologist 253316 Medical Board of Australia
Intensive Care Specialist 253317 Medical Board of Australia
Neurologist 253318 Medical Board of Australia
Paediatrician 253321 Medical Board of Australia
Renal Medicine Specialist 253322 Medical Board of Australia
Rheumatologist 253323 Medical Board of Australia
Thoracic Medicine Specialist 253324 Medical Board of Australia
Specialist Physicians nec 253399 Medical Board of Australia
Psychiatrist 253411 Medical Board of Australia
Surgeon (General) 253511 Medical Board of Australia
Cardiothoracic Surgeon 253512 Medical Board of Australia
Neurosurgeon 253513 Medical Board of Australia
Orthopaedic Surgeon 253514 Medical Board of Australia
Otorhinolaryngologist 253515 Medical Board of Australia
Paediatric Surgeon 253516 Medical Board of Australia
Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeon 253517 Medical Board of Australia
Urologist 253518 Medical Board of Australia
Vascular Surgeon 253521 Medical Board of Australia
Dermatologist 253911 Medical Board of Australia
Emergency Medicine Specialist 253912 Medical Board of Australia
Obstetrician and Gynaecologist 253913 Medical Board of Australia
Ophthalmologist 253914 Medical Board of Australia
Pathologist 253915 Medical Board of Australia
Diagnostic and Interventional Radiologist 253917 Medical Board of Australia
Radiation Oncologist 253918 Medical Board of Australia
Medical Practitioners nec 253999 Medical Board of Australia
Midwife 254111 ANMAC
Nurse Practitioner 254411 ANMAC
Registered Nurse (Aged Care) 254412 ANMAC
Registered Nurse (Child and Family Health) 254413 ANMAC
Registered Nurse (Community Health) 254414 ANMAC
Registered Nurse (Critical Care and Emergency) 254415 ANMAC
Registered Nurse (Developmental Disability) 254416 ANMAC
Registered Nurse (Disability and Rehabilitation) 254417 ANMAC
Registered Nurse (Medical) 254418 ANMAC
Registered Nurse (Medical Practice) 254421 ANMAC
Registered Nurse (Mental Health) 254422 ANMAC
Registered Nurse (Perioperative) 254423 ANMAC
Registered Nurse (Surgical) 254424 ANMAC
Registered Nurse (Paediatrics) 254425 ANMAC
Registered Nurses nec 254499 ANMAC
ICT business Analyst 261111 ACS
Systems Analyst 261112 ACS
Analyst Programmer 261311 ACS
Developer Programmer 261312 ACS
Software Engineer 261313 ACS
Computer Network and Systems Engineer 263111 ACS
Telecommunications Engineer 263311 Engineers Australia
Telecommunications Network Engineer 263312 Engineers Australia
Barrister 271111 SLAA
Solicitor 271311 SLAA
Clinical Psychologist 272311 APS
Educational Psychologist 272312 APS
Organisational Psychologist 272313 APS
Psychotherapist 272314 VETASSESS
Psychologists nec 272399 APS
Social Worker 272511 AASW
Civil Engineering Draftsperson 312211 Engineers Australia/ VETASSESS
Civil Engineering Technician 312212 VETASSESS
Electrical Engineering Draftsperson 312311 Engineers Australia
Electrical Engineering Technician 312312 TRA
Radio Communications Technician 313211 TRA
Telecommunications Field Engineer 313212 Engineers Australia
Telecommunications Network Planner 313213 Engineers Australia
Telecommunications Technical Officer or Technologist 313214 Engineers Australia
Automotive Electrician 321111 TRA
Motor Mechanic (General) 321211 TRA
Diesel Motor Mechanic 321212 TRA
Motorcycle Mechanic 321213 TRA
Small Engine Mechanic 321214 TRA
Sheetmetal Trades Worker 322211 TRA
Metal Fabricator 322311 TRA
Pressure Welder 322312 TRA
Welder (First Class) 322313 TRA
Fitter (General) 323211 TRA
Fitter and Turner 323212 TRA
Fitter-Welder 323213 TRA
Metal Machinist (First Class) 323214 TRA
Locksmith 323313 TRA
Stonemason 331112 TRA
Carpenter and Joiner 331211 TRA
Carpenter 331212 TRA
Joiner 331213 TRA
Painting trades workers 332211 TRA
Glazier 333111 TRA
Fibrous Plasterer 333211 TRA
Solid Plasterer 333212 TRA
Plumber (General) 334111 TRA
Airconditioning and Mechanical Services Plumber 334112 TRA
Drainer 334113 TRA
Gasfitter 334114 TRA
Roof plumber 334115 TRA
Electrician (General) 341111 TRA
Electrician (Special Class) 341112 TRA
Lift Mechanic 341113 TRA
Airconditioning and Refrigeration Mechanic 342111 TRA
Electrical Linesworker 342211 TRA
Technical Cable Jointer 342212 TRA
Electronic Equipment Trades Worker 342313 TRA
Electronic Instrument Trades Worker (General) 342314 TRA
Electronic Instrument Trades Worker (Special Class) 342315 TRA
Boat Builder and Repairer 399111 TRA
Shipwright 399112 TRA
Dental Hygienist 411211 VETASSESS
Dental Prosthetist 411212 TRA
Dental Technician 411213 TRA
Dental Therapist 411214 VETASSESS

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 8:43 pm

Yeah, I am not going to change my skills just to get into Australia. I heard fruit pickers and plumbers are in demand in Australia. But sorry, I would rather be an IT guy and work in India than a fruit picker in Australia.

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 8:45 pm

Fortitude is a skill. I spent 20 years out there. You cannot be a whiner or quitter out there and you have to think on your feet & in your sleep. Takes a special kind of person to do it. Maybe one in a thousand at best. The pay is good and the working conditions are the worst you could find. Most drag up on their first hitch.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 8:54 pm

It also depends on the stage of career you are in. I am already 35 and have spent 13 years in my career and last 8 years of that were in IT. In the last 5 years(in Singapore) I have made enough money for my retirement(in India) and hence not so desperate like a lot of my countrymen are. I was pretty desperate about 8 years back to get into a developed country and do MBA and make money, but then I realized, I would rather work hard and get into IT in India and IT is something that I like doing and its much easier to be successful in your own country. I am not a rockstar coder mind you, but I found myself liking coding more than anything else that I could do.

In my trip to Sydney the Indian restaurant we regularly ate at, I spoke with the Nepali girl serving there. She was a student at a university and working part time. Later when I spoke with my cousin in Sydney about it he told me how university students there fell into the trap of earning good money while studying and how many of them worked beyond their minimum hours and then totally neglected their college and screwed up their career.

There are jobs and there are careers and I am happy having chosen IT as a Career :) There are plenty of people in this world who are not as lucky as me.

This video very eloquently tells you the difference.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnlNUZqFzgY

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Postby x9200 » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 9:42 pm

Then I don't get why are you complaining you could not get a job in Australia.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 9:48 pm

x9200 wrote:Then I don't get why are you complaining you could not get a job in Australia.


I didn't complain. Just saying that its not easy to get a job in Australia. BTW, if you read the the list of skills that PNGMK shared 6 of them are IT.

ICT business Analyst 261111 ACS
Systems Analyst 261112 ACS
Analyst Programmer 261311 ACS
Developer Programmer 261312 ACS
Software Engineer 261313 ACS
Computer Network and Systems Engineer 263111 ACS

I think its just like Singapore. The jobs that are easy to get are those that nobody want to do. Nobody in Singapore wants to become a nurse, plumber or get into construction.

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Postby Wd40 » Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:19 pm

PNGMK wrote:
beppi wrote:
PNGMK wrote:If you have skills in demand (not shitty IT skills but something actually useful)

C'mon, mate, don't be so harsh - not everybody can have skills as useful as sitting on a oil rig in bad weather!


He could be one of these hundred.... but he's not because like so many of his countrymen he fell for the "IT is a great job" mantra in the 80's and 90's. In 1995 I was in IT - I remember telling my Aussie colleagues - "this is clerical work - we'll all be out of work in a decade". I left the S/W industry - went back to hardware and retrained to the downstream oil and gas industry. He's just as smart as I am and could do it but he won't.


You actually left IT at the wrong time. If you were in IT in 1995 and didnt stay on until 2001, you missed the biggest bull run and dot com boom in the industry's history. If you made it big in the oil and gas industry, who knows, you might have made it even bigger if you stayed had stayed on in IT. Indians got the IT mantra only in the late 90s and 2000's those that got in the 90s and made it to the US and survived the dotcom crash are doing really well there. Most Indians in IT are low end workers(including myself) and not skilled enough to do well in most other knowledge industries. But if you are really sharp there is no reason why you couldn't be really successful in IT.

BTW, WhatsApp is an IT company with 30 engineers who got a valuation of 19B. I dont think your industry can beat that, can it? ;) ExxonMobil valuation is 419B but it has to employ 75,000 employees.

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Postby PNGMK » Sat, 01 Mar 2014 12:41 am

Wd40 wrote:
PNGMK wrote:
beppi wrote:
PNGMK wrote:If you have skills in demand (not shitty IT skills but something actually useful)

C'mon, mate, don't be so harsh - not everybody can have skills as useful as sitting on a oil rig in bad weather!


He could be one of these hundred.... but he's not because like so many of his countrymen he fell for the "IT is a great job" mantra in the 80's and 90's. In 1995 I was in IT - I remember telling my Aussie colleagues - "this is clerical work - we'll all be out of work in a decade". I left the S/W industry - went back to hardware and retrained to the downstream oil and gas industry. He's just as smart as I am and could do it but he won't.


You actually left IT at the wrong time. If you were in IT in 1995 and didnt stay on until 2001, you missed the biggest bull run and dot com boom in the industry's history. If you made it big in the oil and gas industry, who knows, you might have made it even bigger if you stayed had stayed on in IT. Indians got the IT mantra only in the late 90s and 2000's those that got in the 90s and made it to the US and survived the dotcom crash are doing really well there. Most Indians in IT are low end workers(including myself) and not skilled enough to do well in most other knowledge industries. But if you are really sharp there is no reason why you couldn't be really successful in IT.

BTW, WhatsApp is an IT company with 30 engineers who got a valuation of 19B. I dont think your industry can beat that, can it? ;) ExxonMobil valuation is 419B but it has to employ 75,000 employees.


Correction; whatsapp is a company that was paid for with $4BB in cash (maybe - if the cheques don't bounce) and $15B (supposed) of FB shares that may well be worthless.

I actually stayed on in IT through the dotcom thing. The systems I built are still out there working.

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Postby PNGMK » Sat, 01 Mar 2014 12:50 am

Wd40 wrote:
x9200 wrote:Then I don't get why are you complaining you could not get a job in Australia.


I didn't complain. Just saying that its not easy to get a job in Australia. BTW, if you read the the list of skills that PNGMK shared 6 of them are IT.

ICT business Analyst 261111 ACS
Systems Analyst 261112 ACS
Analyst Programmer 261311 ACS
Developer Programmer 261312 ACS
Software Engineer 261313 ACS
Computer Network and Systems Engineer 263111 ACS

I think its just like Singapore. The jobs that are easy to get are those that nobody want to do. Nobody in Singapore wants to become a nurse, plumber or get into construction.


Most plumbers in Australia make more than you do in IT. In fact probably double. Most nurses are on about 3 times what they get paid here.


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