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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 25 Feb 2014 2:52 pm

sutra679220.html#679220

Done. Good Idea. Thanks Beeroclock!

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Tue, 25 Feb 2014 2:56 pm

This is getting more ridiculous with every next step.
Sure you asked the SCT person how you are supposed to provide it and what was the response? I understand you have some ID number (NRIC) of the LL and it was mentioned in the claim filling?

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 25 Feb 2014 3:05 pm

Actually, if you are going to rent a property, at least an HDB anyway, you should require a copy of the LLs NRIC just to be able to ascertain that they are the legal owner of the flat and have permission to let out a room / the unit. So, the NRIC has to have the residential address of the owner. Problem with that is it will probably be the unit you are renting if the owner is out of the country working.

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Postby ludwig12 » Tue, 25 Feb 2014 3:09 pm

x9200 wrote:This is getting more ridiculous with every next step.
Sure you asked the SCT person how you are supposed to provide it and what was the response? I understand you have some ID number (NRIC) of the LL and it was mentioned in the claim filling?


Yes, I did ask. I told the staff that I only have the POBOX address and the rental property address and queried whether they can look up the LL address from their internal database based on the NRIC? I was told clearly it was my responsibility to provide the residential address and they will only go by the address that I provide.

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Postby ludwig12 » Tue, 25 Feb 2014 3:15 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:Actually, if you are going to rent a property, at least an HDB anyway, you should require a copy of the LLs NRIC just to be able to ascertain that they are the legal owner of the flat and have permission to let out a room / the unit. So, the NRIC has to have the residential address of the owner. Problem with that is it will probably be the unit you are renting if the owner is out of the country working.


It was a condo that I rented and I was only shown the proof of ownership, it did not have the owner's residential address on it.

I did not have the foresight to ask for a copy of LL's NRIC (not sure if they would give me, but could have tried).

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Tue, 25 Feb 2014 3:38 pm

Might be good to put it on your future rental check list so you don't ever fall into that trap again. If the new landlord will not give you that information at the closing stage, I would think twice about closing the deal. Once burnt.......

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 25 Feb 2014 3:48 pm

It seems reasonable to use the property address in this case but it may not serve the "warning" purpose if the LL is not going to read it.

Besides this, I can only think of two other possibilities:
1) Checking with CEA whether it can be assumed that the LL's agent is also responsible within her/his duty to deliver (or inform about) a mail send to him but addressed to the LL
2) Check with the police whether they will be willing to determine the LL's addressed based on the confirmation of filing the claim in STC.

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Postby Beeroclock » Wed, 26 Feb 2014 12:37 pm

If you still have the will to fight.... I would also send a letter to the PO Box requesting landlord to inform you the residential address as you have an official correspondence pursuant to the TA and must be sent to a residential address, not PO Box. Send the same letter via post/email to agent, requesting agent to convey it to the landlord. Allow them a reasonable time to respond e.g. 2-3 weeks. Don't expect a constructive reply, but keep all these records and accumulate the evidence for your case that landlord is acting in bad faith and evasively. You can also try adding your costs/disbursements (within reason) to the SCT claim and while I think it's unlikely, you at least stand a better chance if the referee deems the landlord has acted in bad faith.

It seems the system is really against you, so really need to decide if you're willing to bear the ongoing time/effort/frustration ! Let it go or keep fighting the good fight on behalf of all the aggrieved tenants out there :)

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Postby ludwig12 » Thu, 28 Aug 2014 7:21 pm

Beeroclock wrote:If you still have the will to fight.... I would also send a letter to the PO Box requesting landlord to inform you the residential address as you have an official correspondence pursuant to the TA and must be sent to a residential address, not PO Box. Send the same letter via post/email to agent, requesting agent to convey it to the landlord. Allow them a reasonable time to respond e.g. 2-3 weeks. Don't expect a constructive reply, but keep all these records and accumulate the evidence for your case that landlord is acting in bad faith and evasively. You can also try adding your costs/disbursements (within reason) to the SCT claim and while I think it's unlikely, you at least stand a better chance if the referee deems the landlord has acted in bad faith.

It seems the system is really against you, so really need to decide if you're willing to bear the ongoing time/effort/frustration ! Let it go or keep fighting the good fight on behalf of all the aggrieved tenants out there :)


Thanks all for the pointers and encouragement. I have finally reached closure (almost) today. Thought I will give this forum a summary of what I went through in case it is useful for future tenants.

1. Sent many emails exchanges trying to negotiate with LL through her agent, no luck. At my agent's advice, went to a lawyer and issued a letter with the standard please give the rent back or else.. Sent to both the POBOX address of the LL and her agent. Again, no responses. In fact, the LL agent told my agent that they can't care less.

2. Called up multiple lawyers, each told me that it is a bit pointless to go to trial due to both time and money. It seemed SCT was the only way to go and doubtful of SCT's effectiveness. Almost gave up at this point, asked my agent to just get back the cheque (with the 350$ additional deduction for the wall painting). The LL agent decided that I must sign a waiver document that I will not dispute before giving any deposit back. That was the last straw on camel's back for me. I decided to see it through properly.

3. Decide to try SCT first. The process was fairly easy. Faxed the form with supporting document, SCT official called back within 24 hours. Minor changes required on the form. Went to SCT to pay and get an appointment in 2 weeks time. Came back 2 weeks later for the appointment, no show from LL side. Got a judgement against LL. They have 30 days to appeal. SCT Judge was quite considerate and give me some suggestions on how to enforce.

4. Sent a copy the judgement to LL's agent and ask her to notify the LL and advise whether they intend to comply. Sent a reminder just before the 30 day deadline, got a few non-sense replies and it was clear that they don't intend to pay.

5. Made appointment with the lawyer and it costs 1000$ to do an Garnish order with 60% potentially can be claimed if the judge rules in my favor. Took about 3 weeks to get confirmation from the bank that there is adequate fund to cover my claim and the fund is now frozen.

6. A court hearing was scheduled to give LL a final opportunity to appeal. Again, no show from LL. Judge ruled in my favor and instructed the bank to pay me. Guess what, got a call from LL a week after the ruling, she was playing innocent, it was a misunderstanding, blah blah, let's try to settle. I told her it was too late and there is nothing to talk about. 5 weeks later, I got the cheque with the amount I claim - 150$ (processing fee for the bank). And the bank still has yet to issue me a cheque the 600$ to cover the legal fee. I think it will be another 6-8 weeks at least.

Despite the seemingly successful outcome, for anyone who is sensitive with number, yes, it did not make sense financially (spent 700$ to save 350$) and took me more than 7 months to get the deposit back. I can certainly understand if anyone feel it is not worth it. For me, it was well worth it as I got a justified result.

Lesson learnt: As I put in the original post, avoid POBOX address in the TA. Do utilize the SCT to settle dispute. It is lower cost and more effective than a lawyer letter. The SCT order can be enforced. There are multiple ways to do it, I don't want to disclose too much here, but if anyone needs some specific help, feel free to PM me or contact a decent lawyer who should be able to advise you.

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 28 Aug 2014 8:09 pm

Brilliant, and wonderful!!
And well done on seeing it through!


[I've been in similar shoes before, so realise how you get pulled both ways, just get through it at a loss, vs bite the leash and get even]


- This backs up my experience, that many 'lower courts' go well out of their way to help the little guy on the street with the filing process. They know it's extremely intimidating, and they really try and help.

Way to go SG-SCT!

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Postby Dert42 » Tue, 02 Sep 2014 8:42 am

Well done for seeing it through!

I'd buy you a beer.

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Postby x9200 » Tue, 02 Sep 2014 9:08 am

Ludwig, you have also a beer from me and I completely understand the idea of losing 700 to gain 350.

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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:03 am

Congrats! I hope everyone else starts doing this.

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Postby ludwig12 » Tue, 02 Sep 2014 10:28 am

Thanks Dert and X9200 for the beer offer.

And totally agree that us as tenants should not put up with LL taking rental deposit as ransom and get away with it.

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 02 Sep 2014 1:49 pm

Well done. I would also look into reporting the judgement to the Singapore Credit Bureau. As it is evidence of a default you can mess with the LL credit rating as well.


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