Give-up SPR for my son & apply for Student Pass

[CharMPN]

Hello All,

Request your guidance on the following.

I am first generation SPR. When I applied for my SPR, I applied the same for my wife and son as well. Hence my son is 2nd generation SPR (I suppose). At present he is 13yrs old and studies in an International School here in Singapore.

We took-up SPR with a hope that we can actually settle down here in SG for ever. But the raising cost of living - especially housing is making things difficult for us. Being an SPR, I am not eligible to buy HDB and I cannot afford to buy a condo, nor can I sustain to pay high rentals. Added to this the general mood in the country is that foreigners are not welcome (BTW, although SPR, I suppose we are foreigners, as we end-up paying lot more for everything - including housing etc).

Given the above scenario, I am sure, I will not be able to afford to continue living with my family here in SG (unless Govt steps-in and helps with policies for SPR like me). While I can continue to live here as long as I have a decent job, I will need to consider moving my wife & son back to my homeland. Since these are things that don't happen immediately, I need to plan. Particularly continuity of my sons education. He will need to continue studying here till he gets admission in a good school in my homeland.

So my question is, while I plan for all these, can I renounce my son's SPR status and apply for student pass to enable him to continue studying till the academic year ends? The reason is that my SPR is due for renewal soon.. hence I would not want to renew my son's SPR and continue him on student pass to complete the academic year here in SG.

Thanks in advance for your feedback / guidance.

[zzm9980]

Whatever your motivations, this will look like a blatant attempt to get him out of NS which you committed him to by taking PR your family. My guess is that his student pass would be denied.

Important things you didnt mention: How long have you been PRs? I'm guessing under 3 years since you said you can't buy an HDB. (PRs can buy resale HDB after 3 years). Second: Where is this 'homeland'? Are you Indian?

[sundaymorningstaple]

Additionally, if you do withdraw his PR, you can be assured you have signed your own walking papers here and when you Reentry Permit comes up for renewal, it's likely that your renewal will be rejected. And if you leave after that, you will lose your PR as well. Oh, and the odds of getting an EP after deliberately removing your son for the NS rolls will be unlikely, so hopefully you will be able to find work back in your homeland.

As an aside, you have an interesting photography concept.

[PNGMK]

Yeah I understand the pressure of maintaining PR and I suspect you're just one of many who will exit when their REP expires. Mine expires in 2017 and I may not renew it either.

I would consider this; as long as your son doesn't need to leave Singapore (and come back in) he can continue to live in Singapore without a renewed REP. Once he leaves at the end of the school year, if his REP is not renewed, he has effectively lost his PR anyways. You should of course return his NRIC etc and formal notify ICA but this is might be a way for you to get what you want for him.

As for for yourself I'd be careful that you can actually get a work pass for your job before giving up PR. Remember there are quotas and salary limits.

[CharMPN]

@ zzm9980: Yeah, I do not want to do something that may effect me or my family. I have been a PR for more than 3years, but unable to buy a HDB because I have a property in India (one & only which I would not want to sell because of emotional connections). Even if I plan to buy resale HDB, I may get maximum of 65-70% loan and have still make an upfront payment of at least $100K - which I cannot afford.

@ sundaymorningstaple: This is want I wanted to know..how serious would that be... you have a point here.. thanks. Also, thanks for taking time out to check about me & my photography.. I am looking at developing this into something worthwhile in future..

@ PNGMK: Do you mean to say that if I don't renew his REP, he can still stay in Singapore till at any point of time he leaves SG in future? But that may also have same effect as renouncing his PR..right?

Thanks all for your suggestions / guidance. Will look forward to any more that may help me take a decision. Meanwhile, some lessons that I have learnt - which I suppose may be more relevant to we Indians (particularly from South, where we are really concerned of good education for our children):

> If anybody is considering to take-up PR and have NS liable son, then be prepared to move your child into local Singapore curriculum schools. For me, I could not do that because my son would have had to go back one year and join previous grade. Now that he's already 13, its too late for me to make him lose one year and go back into previous grade.

> Be prepared to godhead with NS - I personally like the concept of NS - although do not like the fact that it takes off 2.5-3 years of the child's key educational years. If they are not studying in local curriculum, then they will not be competitive once they are back into their educational stream.

> Take-up SPR only if you can afford to continue living in Singapore with costs raising more than 20-30% every year (particularly housing, vegetarian food - those seem to be premium stuff here...)

> Make sure to do a good calculation of your net on hand salary after CPF etc - because all money that goes into CPF is practically not available to you till you are retired... hence make sure to have adequate net income to survive the cost of living.

[sundaymorningstaple]

CharMPN, My son in law is a Singapore Citizen. He came here as a child with his parents from Kerala. His parents are still PRs. He did his NS and was offered OCS which he took and became an officer in the SAF. They also offered him citizenship which he took up. Last month they celebrated their 1st anniversary (he's 31, now has a B.Sc, M.Sc & PhD all in Aeronautical Engrg). Meanwhile his parents, like myself for that matter, are still PRs and still here. NS doesn't hamper a child at all, in fact, make them better, stronger and creates networks that will help him as long as he is here.

As far as the going back a year, even if he did, he will be a year ahead at the end of the road, when compared with his current cohort in the International Schools.

[iamneo]

Hi
As I have mentioned previously, PR in Singapore is just another upgraded form of EP with an extended period of stay. If you are expecting anything from the PR status, I suggest you stop doing that. Looking at the recent changes, the government message is clear: If you do not want citizenship then do not take up PR

As policies continue to tighten,take note that your decisions may one day impact you and your son opportunities here in Singapore. NS is an important and integrated part of Singaporean society. Second generation PR who do not serve NS are one of the mosted hated group of foreigners in Singapore. Singaporeans have already tried to push PAP to punish them and its only a matter of time before PAP politicians do that.

[sundaymorningstaple]

CharMPN, one other thing I failed to mention. My son also did NS here. He got out of the Navy last May.

What iamneo fails to realize is that not all PRs are about to give up developed country citizenship for still developing country citizenship. Dual citizenship, yeah, but we are not going to step down (albeit there have been a few - but they did it because of US taxes). Unlike iamneo who went from 3rd world to developing. Big difference and it makes sense for you to look at it from all the angles as well.

[CharMPN]

@ iamneo: Thanks for the feedback. I am not trying to escape NS for my son nor myself planning to give-up SPR status. Its just that the increasing cost of living may not make sense for me in future to live in Singapore - particularly cost of housing. I would be happy to take-up citizenship - including for my family because that may help me get housing at reasonable cost. Today my earnings are reasonable and also may have a little funds to take care of rainy days.. but it may not help me for long term sustainability.

@ sundaymorningstaple: Was your son on local curriculum or international? normally, what's the process.. like after 10+2 they get into NS for about 2.5yrs and after they come back.. they need to apply for college? Is there any scheme where the students can continue to pursue their education during NS? Just trying to get more understanding..

Thanks once again to all your feedback & guidance. Its really helping me get clarity.

[PNGMK]

@ iamneo: Thanks for the feedback. I am not trying to escape NS for my son nor myself planning to give-up SPR status. Its just that the increasing cost of living may not make sense for me in future to live in Singapore - particularly cost of housing. I would be happy to take-up citizenship - including for my family because that may help me get housing at reasonable cost. Today my earnings are reasonable and also may have a little funds to take care of rainy days.. but it may not help me for long term sustainability.

@ sundaymorningstaple: Was your son on local curriculum or international? normally, what's the process.. like after 10+2 they get into NS for about 2.5yrs and after they come back.. they need to apply for college? Is there any scheme where the students can continue to pursue their education during NS? Just trying to get more understanding..

Thanks once again to all your feedback & guidance. Its really helping me get clarity.

There are multiple pathways for your child from sec 1. The MOE has an excellent book around they gave me with a flowchart showing the options. See if you can get a copy from a local school. It's far too complex to explain here but in very simple terms.

PSEL -> secondary express/normal/technical -> O levels or N levels -> A levels (JC), ITE, Poly or exit schooling -> Uni or further poly studies.

At age 19 - unless you son in in a highly specialized stream - he has to do NS. He can defer in some cases if studying overseas etc.

[sundaymorningstaple]

@ sundaymorningstaple: Was your son on local curriculum or international? normally, what's the process.. like after 10+2 they get into NS for about 2.5yrs and after they come back.. they need to apply for college? Is there any scheme where the students can continue to pursue their education during NS? Just trying to get more understanding..

Thanks once again to all your feedback & guidance. Its really helping me get clarity.

My son was on the local curriculum as he was born here I had plenty of time to consider his options. His sister is 5 years older and she also went through the local system. No real ramifications for her one way or the other aside from my personal beliefs as to the comparative quality of the educational systems of the alternative (no IB back in those days - son is now 25 & the daughter will be 30 next month). NS is 21 to 24 months in duration initially. Normally they have a hard time getting a deferment for Uni unless the student is in the very top tier of their cohort. Even then, it would only be for a local approved university. No overseas tertiary education is allowed before NS as too many desert/default. During NS, no, but those who sign on as regulars can do so after their NS stint.

Admittedly, I am pro-military and my son was going to do NS. I'd obviously prefer he did it here.

[Beeroclock]

Discussion has avoided the cost of living point. While I agree it is expensive, there are a lot of assumptions and choices to be made when one says "I can't afford to stay here." I just wonder if this is a bit of a cop out. If you really want to stay in Singapore what sacrifices might you make to achieve that goal? 20-30% inflation seems quite exaggerated too. As per the various threads on cost of living, a few key decisions such as accom, transport, schooling can make order of magnitude difference to monthly outgoings.

OP you sound sincere and I'm not trying to be critical (I don't even know your circumstances) but just want to challenge you a bit on this premise, in case it might change your thinking and open any new options.....

[iamneo]

To stay or leave Singapore is a personal decision. I am not trying to be harsh but you need to know the future consequences for the decisions that you make today. Going for citizenship will probably solve some of your problems but you are obviously not interested. I have seen quite a number of Indians who did this and they are giving a bad name to the rest of the PR population. Having said that, I also have a few close Indian friends who are still PRs but their sons have served NS and they are very happy.

[CharMPN]

@ Beeroclock: 20-30% increase in cost of living is real. My rental itself has gone-up by 25% vs previous year & next year also its headed in similar % increase. Added to that, as I mentioned previously, vegetarian food is really a premium product here in SG.. the prices are just sky rocketing.. even if I cut corners and make sacrifices, I still face a minimum of 20-30% increase in my cost of living.

@ iamneo: I really don't want to be among those who are bringing bad name to PR status.. but if I cannot survive the cost of living here.... how to cope with that.. hence I am taking advise from well wishers like you on this forum.

[Wd40]

OP, my suggestion to you is go for the all or none approach or atleast be prepared for it. I understand as a PR if you havent bought a HDB and if you are in the median salary bracket, you are much worse off than being on an EP as your cash flows is severely curtailed due to CPF contribution. Several of my Indian colleagues did that mistake of applying for PR as a safety measure in 2008 and then didnt buy HDB and couldn't sustain any longer in Singapore and finally quit.

If you are already thinking that cost of living is too high here for you then its only going to get worse. Its better you start planning to move your entire family back to India. The other approach would be apply for citizenship and commit fully towards Singapore and then you get subsidized housing and other benefits.

Its funny you say veg food is expensive I am also Indian vegetarian. But my rental HDB is near my office and I ride a motorcycle so I come home for lunch and have home cooked food. There are plenty of ways to reduce cost man, as Indians we are experts at that, aren't we