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Schapelle Corby released from Hotel Kerobokan

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Schapelle Corby released from Hotel Kerobokan

Postby nutnut » Mon, 10 Feb 2014 2:57 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26114337

After 9 years, she's released on parole.
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Postby PNGMK » Mon, 10 Feb 2014 3:06 pm

That's a reasonable reduction for good behaviour and (possible) frail mental state (she'd probably have only served about 1/3 in Australian prisons). Most Aussies thought she do the whole 20 years but Indo has been good about appeals and reductions.

I've been impressed by her adamant stance that she is not guilty and her refusal to bow to pressure on that matter for a sentence reduction.

The bali 9 that are going to hang (or shot? 4 of them?) is another matter. They can swing. Stupid idiots.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 10 Feb 2014 10:48 pm

PNGMK wrote:The bali 9 that are going to hang (or shot? 4 of them?) is another matter. They can swing. Stupid idiots.


That's very Christian of you.

Why should someone be killed for a drug offense?

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 6:58 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
PNGMK wrote:The bali 9 that are going to hang (or shot? 4 of them?) is another matter. They can swing. Stupid idiots.


That's very Christian of you.

Why should someone be killed for a drug offense?


Because, as Christians, we are told to submit to the authorities (law). Indonesia has a problem with drugs and has decided the appropriate penalty. I personally doubt they will actually shoot all of those kids but they were operating in full knowledge of the consequences.

Romans 13:5

5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 7:38 am

PNGMK wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
PNGMK wrote:The bali 9 that are going to hang (or shot? 4 of them?) is another matter. They can swing. Stupid idiots.


That's very Christian of you.

Why should someone be killed for a drug offense?


Because, as Christians, we are told to submit to the authorities (law). Indonesia has a problem with drugs and has decided the appropriate penalty. I personally doubt they will actually shoot all of those kids but they were operating in full knowledge of the consequences.

Romans 13:5

5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.


I don't think Jesus saw it that way. You quoted Paul.

Matthew 21:12

"And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. 13 And He said to them, "It is written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER'; but you are making it a ROBBERS' DEN."…"

The temples were the place that the Roman collected their taxes, with the priests and scribes doing the collecting. He also took the priests and scribes to task for selling ablution and forgiveness for money.

These people were the authorities of the day, who did the bidding for Pontius Pilate. Jesus didn't say submit to the authorities, he went in and took the authorities to task. It's why they killed him.

The death penalty is wrong for all but the most heinous of crimes, and trafficking in drugs doesn't reach that plateau.

Do you think Jesus would be for or against them "swinging"?

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Postby the lynx » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 9:06 am

The reason for Indonesia, Malaysia and Singapore (and China) to implement death penalty for drug trafficking (of above certain amount) is because these countries have experienced decades of drug abuse and witnessed how it could hurt them. Not saying that this problem is exclusive and straight-forward but we certainly have Opium Wars in China to learn from.

True, death penalty is very harsh AND it may not totally solve the still-lingering drug abuse in small segments of society, but it shows how serious these countries are to prevent themselves falling back into the same cycle. Obviously punishing the drug addicts won't be doing more good.

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Postby kookaburrah » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 9:28 am

I understand the reason why they do it. It doesn't make it in any way acceptable by ANY self-described civilised standards to judge someone in a court of law, then kill them.

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Postby Beeroclock » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:19 am

Difficult internal conflict..... while I'm morally against this, I do appreciate and value the practical outcome (less drugs), especially nowadays as a parent.

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Postby PNGMK » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:38 am

Strong Eagle wrote:
PNGMK wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:
PNGMK wrote:The bali 9 that are going to hang (or shot? 4 of them?) is another matter. They can swing. Stupid idiots.


That's very Christian of you.

Why should someone be killed for a drug offense?


Because, as Christians, we are told to submit to the authorities (law). Indonesia has a problem with drugs and has decided the appropriate penalty. I personally doubt they will actually shoot all of those kids but they were operating in full knowledge of the consequences.

Romans 13:5

5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.


I don't think Jesus saw it that way. You quoted Paul.

Matthew 21:12

"And Jesus entered the temple and drove out all those who were buying and selling in the temple, and overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who were selling doves. 13 And He said to them, "It is written, 'MY HOUSE SHALL BE CALLED A HOUSE OF PRAYER'; but you are making it a ROBBERS' DEN."…"

The temples were the place that the Roman collected their taxes, with the priests and scribes doing the collecting. He also took the priests and scribes to task for selling ablution and forgiveness for money.

These people were the authorities of the day, who did the bidding for Pontius Pilate. Jesus didn't say submit to the authorities, he went in and took the authorities to task. It's why they killed him.

The death penalty is wrong for all but the most heinous of crimes, and trafficking in drugs doesn't reach that plateau.

Do you think Jesus would be for or against them "swinging"?


You're asking me to pass judgement on the Indonesian parliaments decision to use the death penalty. That's not my role but the role of Indo citizens to determine via their democracy. Yes, I have no problem with the Bali 9 being put to death for willfully violating the law of Indonesia; because the punishment was applied as result of the will of a democracy and an open court trial (note I don't feel the same about NK's use of the death penalty). I would personally accept punishment in their situation as the consequences of my own actions just I (hopefully) do in normal day to day life.

As a believer I am always conscious that our time here is limited and they will be now as well. We don't know God's plan is for their life; only he has the capacity to understand the combinations of decisions and the infinite outcomes for their life that were possible. I am certain that in his infinite capacity he has presented them countless opportunities to be aware of his presence. I believe some of them have become Christians in prison.

Personally I am more concerned for their eternal life than their temporal mortal coil life, their earthly time - just like mine - is not of that much consequence in the scheme of things.

As for Christ being killed by the authorities of the day; that was long foretold by ancient prophets. As the son of God; with infinite power in his grasp, he submitted to mere human power to take on the punishment for our sins via an awful death, and then rose from death to show us who he was.

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Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 11:52 am

PNGMK wrote:As for Christ being killed by the authorities of the day; that was long foretold by ancient prophets. As the son of God; with infinite power in his grasp, he submitted to mere human power to take on the punishment for our sins via an awful death, and then rose from death to show us who he was.


We will have to stop here. I have no use for magic and miracles in a rational world. Why then and not now? What has happened to this god that was plenty chatty back then but says nothing now?

No, the rational view of Jesus and his teachings is that he was a human being who wiped his ass with his left hand, just like everyone else, and who was determined to preach reform over the institutions in Israel and the powers that be. He was fomenting non violent revolution and it got him killed.

It was actually quite similar to what you find today. A small minority controlled all the wealth. The Romans exerted their authority through the church. The poor had little or no recourse. Jesus was for the poor.

Jesus' "kingdom of god" is not some sort of Disneyland that you get to go to when you croak, but only if you live the "right" kind of life now. Jesus preached a state of being in the here and now, which 98 percent of religions and religious believers choose to ignore because his message doesn't sooth the ego and doesn't jibe with material possessions.

Only the later Christian church turned a man into a god.

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