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Swiss vote to impose Immigration curbs on EU Citizens

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Swiss vote to impose Immigration curbs on EU Citizens

Postby Barnsley » Mon, 10 Feb 2014 10:12 am

Is this the beginning of the end of freedom of movement around Europe....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26108597
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Postby ScoobyDoes » Mon, 10 Feb 2014 11:36 am

It's hardly the beginning as Cameron's been banging on about it for months already BUT it is the first to come back with legal backing, and it might lend the UK some support in their negotiations.

Having said that, since Switzerland isn't part of Europe their case anyway is a bit different.
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Re: Swiss vote to impose Immigration curbs on EU Citizens

Postby JR8 » Mon, 10 Feb 2014 12:31 pm

Barnsley wrote:Is this the beginning of the end of freedom of movement around Europe....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26108597


Not that I can see. Switzerland isn't a member of the EU in any case. What I enjoyed reading here, was an example of how Switzerland's direct democracy has once again stuck a truncheon up the unelected politicians (and would be rulers) in Brussels.

Oh if only the rest of the citizens of the EU had such power; rather than the bent and withered vote expressed via bent, corrupt, and self-interested politicians. But it has been taken away, promised and denied, time and again, eh.

It's no surprise the two rich old men of Europe (Switzerland and Norway) have no interest nor intention in 'signing up to the EU club', where they will have to succumb to the bestial predation of their grandchildren's inheritance, by the pie faced, socialist nylon suit wearing Franco-German nothing-apparatchiks that make up the EU.

Q [EU]. Hello Mr. Switzerland and Norway.
A. Hello
Q. How are you?
A. Very well, economies are great, we control our own borders, economy, immigration. Couldn't be doing better thanks.
Q. That's what concerns us. We'd like your money, oh and to take control of your countries.
A. Er no, I don't think so!
Q. Wrong answer. Now we'll close all EU markets to you, to punish your lack of co-operation.

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Re: Swiss vote to impose Immigration curbs on EU Citizens

Postby PNGMK » Mon, 10 Feb 2014 2:53 pm

JR8 wrote:
Barnsley wrote:Is this the beginning of the end of freedom of movement around Europe....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26108597


Not that I can see. Switzerland isn't a member of the EU in any case. What I enjoyed reading here, was an example of how Switzerland's direct democracy has once again stuck a truncheon up the unelected politicians (and would be rulers) in Brussels.

Oh if only the rest of the citizens of the EU had such power; rather than the bent and withered vote expressed via bent, corrupt, and self-interested politicians. But it has been taken away, promised and denied, time and again, eh.

It's no surprise the two rich old men of Europe (Switzerland and Norway) have no interest nor intention in 'signing up to the EU club', where they will have to succumb to the bestial predation of their grandchildren's inheritance, by the pie faced, socialist nylon suit wearing Franco-German nothing-apparatchiks that make up the EU.

Q [EU]. Hello Mr. Switzerland and Norway.
A. Hello
Q. How are you?
A. Very well, economies are great, we control our own borders, economy, immigration. Couldn't be doing better thanks.
Q. That's what concerns us. We'd like your money, oh and to take control of your countries.
A. Er no, I don't think so!
Q. Wrong answer. Now we'll close all EU markets to you, to punish your lack of co-operation.


Norway's SWF reached the point two weeks ago where every citizen is now a technicaly millionaire. Australia's wealth fund (future fund) is there for the protection of politician and civil servants super. What a difference.

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Postby Barnsley » Mon, 10 Feb 2014 5:22 pm

If the numbers of folk who feel like that are not benefiting from the freedom of movement become the majority then this will change all over Europe.

The powers that be appear to be no nearer solving mass unemployment issue particularly amongst the youth.

If the perception is that foreigners are taking the jobs irrespective of where they are from then there will be changes.
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Postby JR8 » Mon, 10 Feb 2014 5:56 pm

Barnsley wrote:If the numbers of folk who feel like that are not benefiting from the freedom of movement become the majority then this will change all over Europe.

The powers that be appear to be no nearer solving mass unemployment issue particularly amongst the youth.

If the perception is that foreigners are taking the jobs irrespective of where they are from then there will be changes.


I'm not sure. What does 'freedom of movement' mean to most people in Europe?

- Going on a booze-cruise to Calais. Having to carry a passport but not having to show it.
- If you're one of the say 2 or 3 people in the UK who actually want to work in France or Germany, it doesn't change anything. You still need a passport, to speak the language, and to accept that almost all of them don't like us one bit (or the Yanks).
- Er, I can't think of anything else.

The EU = an overhead, a tax, a canker, in some socialistic throw-back phoney geo-political battle against The Great Satan America. Really, it was founded, and is still stuck in the mindset and outlook of the 1940s.


I think that's the thing. The EU doesn't represent some form of liberation from bureaucracy (or anything else), it is in fact the addition of a very fat and expensive one. Like having a new Federal style government created and morphed on top of Europe (largely against people's will). A country doesn't attain more by adding additional government upon itself... quite the contrary...


p.s. You don't solve employment in Europe, by telling Pedro the out of work Spanish car worker, that he is now eligible to go and work in Finland.
a) he doesn't want to go to Finland
b) his family are in Spain
c) he gets euro500p/w benefits to stay in Spain and not work.


'solving mass unemployment' - Oh I thought that was why the EU introduced the Working Time Directive and the 35hr Working Week. You know 'Jobs for all, not just the few'. 'Share the cake around amongst everyone'... that sort of thing. - It hasn't worked has it? What seems quite clear to me is that politicians can't and don't '''create''' jobs.

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Postby kookaburrah » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 9:23 am

Those are old-man rants, JR8. You're cherry picking your arguments, and not very accurately at that.

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 9:33 am

kookaburrah wrote:Those are old-man rants, JR8. You're cherry picking your arguments, and not very accurately at that.


I think you'll have to elaborate if you want a discussion to proceed. You know, what you think I'm ignoring, and, what you think I've said that's inaccurate.

Oh, and what is an 'old man's rant'? [apart from a gratuitous bit of ad hominem :)] Does that mean, that you don't find my opinions young and modish?

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Postby kookaburrah » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 9:39 am

JR8 wrote:
kookaburrah wrote:Those are old-man rants, JR8. You're cherry picking your arguments, and not very accurately at that.


I think you'll have to elaborate if you want a discussion to proceed. You know, what you think I'm ignoring, and, what you think I've said that's inaccurate.

Oh, and what is an 'old man's rant'? [apart from a gratuitous bit of ad hominem :)] Does that mean, that you don't find my opinions young and modish?


I'll pass, thanks. Just wanted to call you bluff here so you wouldn't think, you know, that we're all still asleep. :wink:

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 10:37 am

'Whether or not you think the Swiss are wise to shut out EU migrants, their referendum over the weekend does at least demolish one exasperating myth.

Can anybody continue to say with a straight face that the sovereignty of Switzerland (or Norway) is fictitious, that the country always has to go along with EU policy even though it is not a member of the Union?'


http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/finance/am ... y-matters/

p.s. Check out the global per capita GDP figures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... P_(nominal)_per_capita
If you overlook the little banking/tax havens, CH and NO are perhaps the 'richest' countries in the world.

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Postby kookaburrah » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 3:19 pm

Given the track records of financial analysts the world over, i don't think it is productive to argue what would have happened had things been done differently.

Obviously, if you are going to quote the telegraph, you're going to find they have picked the same cherries as you.

I could come right back and quote the guardian which has come up with juicy cherries much more to my liking: "Markus Spillmann, editor of the Neue Zürcher Zeitung in Zurich, said:"The relationship between Switzerland and the EU is now completely open. There will certainly be no good for the economy and for prosperity in this country," he wrote. "Inward-looking Switzerland has won. That's not good for a small, open, resources-poor country."" in http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/10/switzerland-talks-eu-immigration-referendum

What I have read is that the adherence of both Switzerland and the UK to the principles of free movement of people have actually helped, rather than hindered their economies. You have read differently.

----
Apologies for the old-man rant accusation which was not meant to be that targeted. It's just that these rants that you post here regarding the EU, tend to be long-winded and rabidly one sided, much like an old man's Even the oxford dictionary uses the same simile: http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/ranting

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Postby JR8 » Tue, 11 Feb 2014 3:38 pm

Before this goes any further, may I ask of which EU country you are a citizen?

If you're Greek and pro-EU, it's ok, you can pretend you're Italian and that the EU haven't ground your entire country into the dirt under their jackboot yet.

If you're not from the EU, I have better things to do with my time... like try and find a recipe for a particularly juicy pineapple I have just had the sweet pleasure of dressing.

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Postby zzm9980 » Wed, 12 Feb 2014 10:48 am

I did read about this in the Daily Mail today. They sure went out of their way to pick the most fascist and punitive sounding quotes from various EU officials about how 'Switzerland would be punished'. Amusing for sure.


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