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We are two lesbian mom + a child looking for information

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AlisaG
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We are two lesbian mom + a child looking for information

Postby AlisaG » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 3:46 am

Hi All,
we are a couple of lesbian and we have one child that is 8 months old (from sperm bank) .
We will come to Singapore for a period of one year more or less, and our child will go to a kindergarten while we are working.
The question is who our sexual gender will affect the behavior to our child.
How will the garden stuff accept our family , and specifically our child?
will we be discriminate or e will get the same behavior as everyone?
Will we need to hide the fact that the child has two mothers?
Thanks in advance for any information you can give.
As much information as you can give as it will help as we have nothing yet.
Thanks,

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 11:20 am

Hi Alisa,
Every week here seems to bring up a question that’s never been asked before, and this is one such example. So there is no past experience/anecdotal to go on, but I’ll give you my thoughts based upon some years here.

- What ever the work arrangement you have, I’m imagining you’ve all your visas etc lined up.

- The baby seems too young for ‘kindergarten’. See here ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Singapore
Informal education doesn’t start here until 3 years old it seems, kindergarten at 4.
I wonder if this suggests you should be considering some kind of ‘baby-care’, or ‘day-care’. I don’t know.

- Singapore is generally speaking a conservative society. Practising ‘the physical acts of’ homosexuality is illegal (and does at times get prosecuted, but from reading the papers it’s usually in parallel with some much greater legal action). So, despite there being quite some gay community here, it generally is very discreet and low key (random thought: about as far away as humanly possible from something like Berlin’s Gay Parade or Berghain club – extremes of ‘In Vs. Out’?).

- So with that in mind, it is hard to say how – assuming your status is known – the child might be considered on a day to day basis. If I were you I think I’d be looking at options for expat-friendly, or western run day-care. They might be a bit more cosmopolitan and open-minded.

- Will you be discriminated against? I don’t know where you’re from, but in most countries your household is a pretty unorthodox one :) Now if you’re out and about in public, two women and a baby, I’m sure that’s just fine. However refer also previous comments.

- Hide that the child has two mothers? It would probably make life a heck of a lot simpler for all concerned. If projecting your sexuality is ‘just how it is’ then I think you’re going to have to expect push-back, and probably more than you’re used to in your home country.

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Postby scarbowl » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 11:54 am

JR8 offers great guidance. I would add that that the law prohibits sexual acts between two males but is silent regarding women. As you said, it is a very conservative culture in which physical affection even between couples of different genders is not generally seen in public.

Perhaps better if the OP appears to be two sisters or related and not refer to their roles as parent. Maybe "aunties". Certainly if the childcare is at all Singaporean.

There are many tolerant people here, those who just don't care, and some who will object but not say anything. Overt comments on the same-gender relationship would be rare, I think.

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 12:12 pm

Good correction there Scarbowl, I'd forgotten the law only applied to men (how's that for equality eh).

See further...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Singapore

Quite surprised to see in the above link that 'homosexual ladies' have access to IVF in SG! :o

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Postby Hannieroo » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 12:37 pm

I think you'll find most people don't actually think much further than your child has two nominated people, both female. Anybody who spends any time longer than that and judges isn't worth worrying about. There are rules and expectations here but I reckon the average grown up with a child isn't going to be pushing those buttons, it's not an actively aggressive society.

Nobody will treat your child differently.

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zzm9980
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Postby zzm9980 » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 12:46 pm

I think the hardest part will be sorting out the visas/EPs/DPs/LTVPs, assuming both moms don't have jobs that give them EPs.

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 1:00 pm

Yep, I expect your main trouble and concern would be to get 3 of you to Singapore (long term pass for your partner or yourself) rather than any later animosity towards your kid.
IMHO living here you may only encounter difficulty if you need to arrange something formal what concerns you as a family. Other than this, if you behave as a typical adult nobody will care.

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 1:02 pm

Hannieroo wrote:I think you'll find most people don't actually think much further than your child has two nominated people, both female. Anybody who spends any time longer than that and judges isn't worth worrying about. There are rules and expectations here but I reckon the average grown up with a child isn't going to be pushing those buttons, it's not an actively aggressive society.

Nobody will treat your child differently.


Society here still at times seems not to have progressed beyond talking behind the white man's back.
'Ooh look, fat white man'
'That girl [wife] is local or not ah?'
'Wah, what a ******. Dirty foreigner, taking our women!'
etc. :roll:

Thanks heavens I'm not a lesbian with it, that might be bad :lol:

The locals aren't overtly aggressive, but some are passive aggressive, i.e. they'd just luuuuurve to '''accidentally''' trip you up (perhaps especially if you drive a nice car, and worse are married to Miss Singapore, in which case you can expect to be blackballed out of the country).

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 1:28 pm

I believe it will not go beyond what many of us already encounter being the Angmohs.
My good friend is a gay (White) living with his partner (Chinese) in HDB and I am not aware of any problems they face just because they are homosexual.

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Sergei82
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Postby Sergei82 » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 1:36 pm

First of all, looks like the ladies are Russains, because they've just posted the same in Russian on RussianSingapore forum.

Russia does not recognize gay and lesbian marriages.

Therefore, BOTH can't be registered as mothers, and the marriage is not formal.

Therefore, what's the worry? Real mother can introduce her partner as a friend or sister if somebody asks.

Btw, on which pass both of you are here? Do you both personally have employment passes? (or whatever...) I doubt, you can be dependent on each other in Singapore.

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x9200
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Postby x9200 » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 1:43 pm

She posts from the country with legalized same sex unions so formally (if the case) their status should be equal to a formalized/legalized common law marriage.

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Sergei82
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Postby Sergei82 » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 1:48 pm

Bad for them. Everything they are afraid of is true in Singapore.

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 2:12 pm

x9200 wrote:I believe it will not go beyond what many of us already encounter being the Angmohs.
My good friend is a gay (White) living with his partner (Chinese) in HDB and I am not aware of any problems they face just because they are homosexual.


[Squint] Should all male flat-sharers be presumed homosexual?

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the lynx
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Postby the lynx » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 2:15 pm

JR8 wrote:
x9200 wrote:I believe it will not go beyond what many of us already encounter being the Angmohs.
My good friend is a gay (White) living with his partner (Chinese) in HDB and I am not aware of any problems they face just because they are homosexual.


[Squint] Should all male flat-sharers be presumed homosexual?


Why? I used to live in all-ladies flat-share. Frankly, I prefer it that way.

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JR8
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Postby JR8 » Tue, 28 Jan 2014 4:18 pm

the lynx wrote:
JR8 wrote:
x9200 wrote:My good friend is a gay (White) living with his partner (Chinese) in HDB and I am not aware of any problems they face just because they are homosexual.


[Squint] Should all male flat-sharers be presumed homosexual?


Why? I used to live in all-ladies flat-share. Frankly, I prefer it that way.


The point was just because two guys live together, why should they be imagined to be homosexual, and thus invite 'problems' upon themselves? That suggestion has not been tested, if you see what I mean.

Similarly with two ladies. Probably wisest not to push it into people's faces too much though, that was what I said, and my point.


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