Rob,YF wrote:Asiandivergirl: I disagree. I am an atheist and feel very complete -- love, hope, morality -- you don't need religion for that; these are *human* characteristics and that's why they transcend any particular religion and why we can see the rudements of morality even in the animal kingdom. In fact, because I believe my "soul" is not immortal--that this is the only chance I get--I may even appreciate life *more* and therefore I have to make the best of it, not only for me, but for my fellow human beings. God doesn't make or decide what is good, good exists indepently. The "Good" is the ends, not religion. Religion is only a means, and often, a very bad one at that.
I agree!sundaymorningstaple wrote:Rob,YF wrote:Asiandivergirl: I disagree. I am an atheist and feel very complete -- love, hope, morality -- you don't need religion for that; these are *human* characteristics and that's why they transcend any particular religion and why we can see the rudements of morality even in the animal kingdom. In fact, because I believe my "soul" is not immortal--that this is the only chance I get--I may even appreciate life *more* and therefore I have to make the best of it, not only for me, but for my fellow human beings. God doesn't make or decide what is good, good exists indepently. The "Good" is the ends, not religion. Religion is only a means, and often, a very bad one at that.
While I'll not go quite so far as yourself, I have been a practicing Agnostic since 1960 when I left the Presbyterian Church. I have studied most of the major religions and ways of life (ie., Buddhism, Hinduism, etc) and a few of the smaller evangelical christian groups. I could never find one that I was in 100% agreement with, therefore I have remained 100% true to my own beliefs. My own beliefs are probably more stringent than any average smoe who embraces a given religion. Like yourself, I am not a hypocrite who claims one thing and practices another in day to day life.
Religion, by it's very nature is manmade and therefore subject to the whims of mankind and the nature of interpretation (be they good or bad). Herein lies the major problem when all religions claim to the the right one. "We can drink and have our own breweries" 'If you drink alcohol you will suffer the fire and brimstone of hell" , etc, etc.
I live by one rule only....As you are from the US you will know this one. "The Golden Rule" I believe it is one of the first rules we learnt as kids. Here in singarich it is "He who has the gold makes the rules" but what I mean is "Do unto others as you would have them done to you." I try to treat all and sundry the way I would like to be treated. BUT.....If you then shoot at me you had better duck because I will shoot back with uncanny accuracy.
By the way, my wife is a devout catholic as are both of my children. I have no problem with that. I also wouldn't have a problem if they had been Muslim either. Any religion that, when followed "Properly", makes you a better person, in the eyes of the majority, is the religion that you should be. For that matter, it was what the catholic church made my wife that caused me to be attracted to her in the first place. Not because she was catholic.
I do agree that we only have the time that is here on this earth and what I do I do for my own satisfaction and not for the so-called rewards of an afterlife. We're given a maximum of four score & twenty and we should make the best of it.
sms
sundaymorningstaple wrote:... is there any difference in the Jihads of today than the catholic church's crusades of the 1100's? Or for that matter the catholics & protetants in Ireland...
All major religions have killed in the name of religion at some time or another due to mis-interpretions or deliberate actions...
I am curious Eckadimmock, specifically which regimes were avowedly Atheist? That have been warlike that is. Russia? Cuba?, What war did they start? We might not like their methods of running their countries or treating their people but what countries did they wage war upon (not talking about defending themselves but aggression itself). The "Cold War" doesn't count.Eckadimmock wrote:I don't blame religion for the world's woes, because as far as I can see all wars are basically caused by economics: competition for control of resources and society. Every society will justify its misdeeds in terms of whatever language its moral framework uses, hence the religious connection.
If the problem were specifically religious, we would expect secular or avowedly Atheist regimes to be more peaceful, but that certainly hasn't been the case in the past century or so.
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