Spending majority of year in Sing as a Retired Tourist?

[hangmann]

I think it would help if you could provide a little more context. Are there any financial and social motivations behind this? Do you already own a condo here?

Yes thats a great question, there is some context behind this. That is, I'm considering buying a condo here while I'm still employed so I can get a favorable housing loan rate (less than 1% APR). If I retire and then decide I want to buy in Singapore later on, I wouldn't be eligible for the same loans and rates, as I'd be considered a complete foreigner, without a local income and a long term visa.

So it's forcing me into making a decision whether I want to buy a condo here before I retire. Which would highly depend on how much time I can stay here per year.

[smoulder]

I think it would help if you could provide a little more context. Are there any financial and social motivations behind this? Do you already own a condo here?

Yes thats a great question, there is some context behind this. That is, I'm considering buying a condo here while I'm still employed so I can get a favorable housing loan rate (less than 1% APR). If I retire and then decide I want to buy in Singapore later on, I wouldn't be eligible for the same loans and rates, as I'd be considered a complete foreigner, without a local income and a long term visa.

So it's forcing me into making a decision whether I want to buy a condo here before I retire. Which would highly depend on how much time I can stay here per year.

You are OK with coughing up the Absd? 30 percent of the property value if I understood correctly.

[hangmann]

You are OK with coughing up the Absd? 30 percent of the property value if I understood correctly.

No, I would never pay that ludicrous rate. I'm exempt from ABSD as an American citizen.

[hangmann]

1. Make your retirement base in Asia by acquiring a proper retiree visa - the Philippines 10 year SRRV is one such possibility for less than $2/day. And, if a Singapore lifestyle is what you seek, have a read —

Thanks for the suggestions. I have spent time in Manila, both in BGC and Makati, and while I like both places, I have to say that knowing that outside the guarded walls was the real world of poverty, crime and suffering, while inside was just like an American mall with a mediocre family restaurant like TGI Fridays and Swensons at every corner, was making me feel uncomfortable. Something akin to being in an sci-fi film like Elysium or Total Recall.

I may have to give the Philippines another shot though, Filipino people are great, so warm and friendly.

[PNGMK]

Just beware that once unemployed it is hard to refinance or get new CC etc. I'm now freelance and fortunately set some up before I was made redundant.

[Lisafuller]

I think Guam is a little expensive but I agree the PH makes more sense than Singapore for a retiree.

Agree. The Philippines is great if you have the money, and if you’re a foreigner chances are you do.

[malcontent]

I think Guam is a little expensive but I agree the PH makes more sense than Singapore for a retiree.

Agree. The Philippines is great if you have the money, and if you’re a foreigner chances are you do.

Guam is expensive, but cheaper than Singapore. The Philippines is easily the #1 destination in Asia for American retirees. One of the reasons is the fact that you can just keep extending your tourist stay for up to 3 years… that makes it uniquely easy to access from an immigration standpoint. In recent years they made it even easier — you can extend 6 months at a shot, twice within the 3 year period.

And there really are a lot of options depending how you want to live, once you venture outside of Metro Manila. Here are a few examples that are popular with expats:

1. Mactan Newtown - this is a recent development with a cluster of modern high rise condos on Mactan Island near Cebu airport. Mactan Island has a laid back vibe with lots of seaside resorts and eateries. Cebu City is just across the bridge when you need access to amenities — they even have a US consular agency in town.

2. Subic Bay Freeport Zone - this is one of the few places in the Philippines where foreigners can “buy” landed property, albeit on a 50 year leasehold basis. This former US Naval base is a now a clean, spacious seaside development with leafy suburban cul-de-sacs in the hills.

3. Valencia - perched in the hills above Dumaguete, this is suitable for those who prefer a more rural setting - and it’s a safer area without all the gates and bars. You can enjoy the simple life at a very low cost, and Duma is an easy scooter ride away for easy access to essentials. It’s also a great jumping off point to explore other islands.

[malcontent]

I think it would help if you could provide a little more context. Are there any financial and social motivations behind this? Do you already own a condo here?

Yes thats a great question, there is some context behind this. That is, I'm considering buying a condo here while I'm still employed so I can get a favorable housing loan rate (less than 1% APR). If I retire and then decide I want to buy in Singapore later on, I wouldn't be eligible for the same loans and rates, as I'd be considered a complete foreigner, without a local income and a long term visa.

So it's forcing me into making a decision whether I want to buy a condo here before I retire. Which would highly depend on how much time I can stay here per year.

Without a right of abode in Singapore, I’m not sure I would do that, even with the alluring prospect of 0% ABSD. Keep in mind, you still have to cough up a sizable down payment — and that is money that could have been put to work in investments with higher returns.

Even if you were to look at it as more of an investment / rental property, the government is determined to keep a lid on price appreciation, so you can’t expect much. As a retiree, I think it is usually better to rent unless you are able to stay put somewhere… otherwise it could end up being suboptimal financially. I wouldn’t want to risk that in retirement.

Keep in mind too — it’s not like the US where you can lock in a fixed APR for 30 years, it’s all variable rate here, you can only lock in rates for a few years at most. With inflation heating up like it has, there is a real risk of rate increases on the horizon.

[PNGMK]

I am wondering whether we may see taxes applied differentially on sale of property as well - for example SSD applied higher to foreigners and PRs. This is one money maker this govt won't give up.

[The_Sunday_Studio]

Hi all! Happy New Year!

Indeed Singapore govt is trying to keep the property prices in Singapore affordable. But that will only impact the HDBs a lot. In terms of private properties, there is little the government can do. Given COVID situations and the clamping of Hong Kong recently, I would believe that Singapore Private Property will be a good investment in the coming years.

Philippines is great if you have the money but to compare Philippines and Singapore, believe all would agree that they are not exact comparisons.

Cheers

[malcontent]

Hi all! Happy New Year!

Indeed Singapore govt is trying to keep the property prices in Singapore affordable. But that will only impact the HDBs a lot. In terms of private properties, there is little the government can do. Given COVID situations and the clamping of Hong Kong recently, I would believe that Singapore Private Property will be a good investment in the coming years.

Philippines is great if you have the money but to compare Philippines and Singapore, believe all would agree that they are not exact comparisons.

Cheers

Welcome to the forum TSS.

I agree that there is further upward price potential in the property market here, and clearly the government shares that view or else they wouldn’t have ratcheted up the ABSD. But you must know that additional measures will be taken to tamp it down if the current rate of appreciation continues.

However, I believe this is unlikely to impact the HDB market more than private. Singaporeans can’t buy multiple HDB units, and they can’t even buy an HDB if they already own another property. And since Singaporeans pay no ABSD on their first home which is usually an HDB, a higher ABSD should have little direct impact.

That said, the private property market and HDB market cannot be decoupled because government land sales for the development of new HDB blocks use the full unsubsidized market price of the land, plus the actual building cost of the units. Even resale units are based on supply and demand within the intentionally distorted market dynamics due to the HDB resale rulebook. Availability and price of private properties as alternatives definitely plays into the demand for resale HDBs. The higher private properties go, the greater the demand for HDBs.

I am not sure you can count on any large exodus from HK to SG. Hong Kongers have a lot of choices, many of which are more attractive than Singapore. I know it is a popular local narrative being circulated here, the idea that everyone wants to move here… but I haven’t seen any real substance behind it, and the population numbers certainly don’t show it.

As for the Philippines, just the proceeds from selling one HDB flat and investing it appropriately… that alone would be plenty to retire very comfortably for a lifetime in the PI.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I remember the 1997 Asian Financial Meltdown, coupled with the 1997 exodus from HK during the "handover" by the British back to the Chinese. Singapore put out that they were offering 20,000 PR to any Honkies who wanted to come to Singapore. Less than half of those were utilized if I remember correctly. The majority went to the UK, Canada, US & Aust. For most Honkies Singapore was a last resort. That was also the first big property crash here. It bottomed out in Jan~Feb 1999. So I bought my first HDB Resale flat at valuation with no COV at all. I'm still in the same flat 22 years later. Current value on the OM is around 200% what I paid for it.

[malcontent]

I remember the 1997 Asian Financial Meltdown, coupled with the 1997 exodus from HK during the "handover" by the British back to the Chinese. Singapore put out that they were offering 20,000 PR to any Honkies who wanted to come to Singapore. Less than half of those were utilized if I remember correctly. The majority went to the UK, Canada, US & Aust. For most Honkies Singapore was a last resort. That was also the first big property crash here. It bottomed out in Jan~Feb 1999. So I bought my first HDB Resale flat at valuation with no COV at all. I'm still in the same flat 22 years later. Current value on the OM is around 200% what I paid for it.

My employer moved their head office for this part of the world from HK to SG in 1992 before the handover and they brought a lot of Honkies with them. They got special PR with expedited citizenship (within a year or two) if they chose to. When I joined in 1997, my first two bosses were Honkies. The first one is still working in our company but in Australia, the second one retired about 10 years ago and stayed in Singapore. I am now one of just a few dozen remaining of the first 100 employees, myself being #68 which still shows on my badge today. Walking around the office brings back so many memories.

My father worked at the same employer for 35 years, the company currently known as Verizon. I’ve already got 25 years in, we’ll have to see if I make it another 10.

[The_Sunday_Studio]

Hi all! Happy New Year!

Indeed Singapore govt is trying to keep the property prices in Singapore affordable. But that will only impact the HDBs a lot. In terms of private properties, there is little the government can do. Given COVID situations and the clamping of Hong Kong recently, I would believe that Singapore Private Property will be a good investment in the coming years.

Philippines is great if you have the money but to compare Philippines and Singapore, believe all would agree that they are not exact comparisons.

Cheers

Welcome to the forum TSS.

I agree that there is further upward price potential in the property market here, and clearly the government shares that view or else they wouldn’t have ratcheted up the ABSD. But you must know that additional measures will be taken to tamp it down if the current rate of appreciation continues.

However, I believe this is unlikely to impact the HDB market more than private. Singaporeans can’t buy multiple HDB units, and they can’t even buy an HDB if they already own another property. And since Singaporeans pay no ABSD on their first home which is usually an HDB, a higher ABSD should have little direct impact.

That said, the private property market and HDB market cannot be decoupled because government land sales for the development of new HDB blocks use the full unsubsidized market price of the land, plus the actual building cost of the units. Even resale units are based on supply and demand within the intentionally distorted market dynamics due to the HDB resale rulebook. Availability and price of private properties as alternatives definitely plays into the demand for resale HDBs. The higher private properties go, the greater the demand for HDBs.

I am not sure you can count on any large exodus from HK to SG. Hong Kongers have a lot of choices, many of which are more attractive than Singapore. I know it is a popular local narrative being circulated here, the idea that everyone wants to move here… but I haven’t seen any real substance behind it, and the population numbers certainly don’t show it.

As for the Philippines, just the proceeds from selling one HDB flat and investing it appropriately… that alone would be plenty to retire very comfortably for a lifetime in the PI.

Hi
Thanks for the lengthy reply.
Perhaps there is some misunderstanding. I would mean that the shift of Expats in HK to SG.
Prior clamping down, HK is a better option cos they have the great market in China and the "freedom" in HK.
However, recent weeks, we are seeing numerous articles about foreign banks pulling out of HK due to ZERO COVID restrictions and all.
Not sure if my understanding is correct though.

Happy CNY btw

[smoulder]

I think corporates moving out of HK has little to do with covid which is an irritant for sure but it is temporary - eventually this too shall pass. I have read some of these articles or similar ones such as for instance ones that suggest major discontent among expats in Singapore because of covid handling. Usually they seem to follow a similar approach which is cherry pick some anecdotes to bolster a narrative that the author wants the readers to believe. The reality is that there may be some truth to the claims or it is also entirely possible that it is just purely anecdotal evidence being used to "prove" the "trend".

I believe many corporations had started moving out of HK long before covid and long before the more recent wave of measures from Beijing to dilute the differences between HK and the mainland in policies and governance.

Similar to what someone else mentioned, I too was working for a large Aussie corporation which moved their rest of the world headquarters from HK to Singapore. This was almost a decade ago.