May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by Wd40 » Mon, 03 May 2021 9:24 am

the observer wrote:
Mon, 03 May 2021 9:14 am
If I were to gaze into my crystal ball, this low rates euphoria will die in a couple of years and the days of cost cutting will reign again.

Departments will get shipped out, and it gets pretty obvious if a department is staffed mainly from nationals of a single country. Makes it easy for COO to decide to move the department there.
This would take a couple of years atleast. We will have a big reopening boom next couple of year. It is a bit premature to talk about cost cutting now. There is going to be a huge shortage of labour. I think next couple of years will be a great time to move to a suitable destination, like UK for example, which is already relaxing its immigration to non EU. The single country nationals will be a perfect fit there. I see Australia, Canada and US to opening up for immigration. Singapore can continue to remain inward looking, the world has lots of opportunities.

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by the observer » Mon, 03 May 2021 9:37 am

I’d really think cost controls lie under the purview of corporates, not the gahmen.

I’m not sure if you’ve heard, but the bean counters in my corp are looking at sgdinr at 55 and are talking about how much savings the relocation would save.

gbpinr is 105, audinr is 57, usdinr is 75

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by the observer » Mon, 03 May 2021 10:33 am

Hence that is why I said, line managers are trying hard to stay relevant. Depending on the role you’re in, this digital revolution has made outsourcing the new wet dream for CFO/COOs.

If you’re an IT worker, you’ll end up becoming like salmon, swimming against the tide. Not saying that you won’t make it, just odds are growing agst.

Furthermore, you’ll face the same recurring outsourcing pressure once you’ve migrated successfully to wherever you are, as long as your department is a COST CENTRE.

The remedy/final solution is to move to a profit centre department.

Whilst you paint a grandiose and beautiful macroeconomic picture, I hope you find my microeconomic findings relevant, to you.

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by bro75 » Mon, 03 May 2021 11:02 am

Like many, I also enjoyed working from home and I hope it continues. The time and cost savings is significant. Currently it is voluntary for us to go to the office. Our company is not fully on board with the idea of full WFH but is open to partial WFH post-COVID.

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by Wd40 » Mon, 03 May 2021 12:46 pm

the observer wrote:
Mon, 03 May 2021 9:37 am
I’d really think cost controls lie under the purview of corporates, not the gahmen.

I’m not sure if you’ve heard, but the bean counters in my corp are looking at sgdinr at 55 and are talking about how much savings the relocation would save.

gbpinr is 105, audinr is 57, usdinr is 75
Relocation happens all the time even before Covid. So the low hanging fruits are already gone. It is not simple as just looking at the SGDINR rate and think you can save a lot of money moving roles to India. I worked for Credit Suisse before and I have seen they got really bad quality from their Pune office and then moved the jobs back to Singapore in 2009. Then in 2012, they again moved the jobs back to Pune.

There are a lot of factors, the political/economic stability, rising wages in India. The salaries in India is not cheap. The taxation is high there. In Singapore employers pay quite a low salary, if you actually compare with US, Australia, UK. It is mainly the tax savings and because it is easy to live frugally in Singapore. So Singapore works well for Indians not because the salary is very high, it is because of the efficiencies here, both employers and employees get the best bang for the buck.

If employers manage to reduce office space by 50% and let employees work from home, that is a huge saving already for them. Indians would be willing to work from home in Singapore but will not take the same bullshit and work from India, for the same role. You wont get the same talent. You will get only monkies if you pay peanuts.

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 03 May 2021 12:57 pm

I work physically on equipment in a yard. We cannot do another CB.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by Wd40 » Mon, 03 May 2021 12:59 pm

the observer wrote:
Mon, 03 May 2021 9:37 am

gbpinr is 105, audinr is 57, usdinr is 75
Specific to the exchange, not sure if you know, SGDINR in 2013 was already 53. Inflation in India is 6% on average since last 7-8 years. The interest rate is also at that level. In Singapore both inflation and interest rates are much lower.

So on a real effective exchange rate basis, SGDINR at 56 is actually INR very expensive and SGD is cheap. You need to pay hikes of 10% in India as normal performance. Salaries in India are like 50% of Singapore, not 1/55th. So imagine you paid 50K SGD to and Indian employee in 2013 and then you need to give him hikes of 10% each year for the last 7 years.

Now calculate is Indian employee cheap or Singapore employee cheap?

Economics is not so easy for most people to understand.

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by the observer » Mon, 03 May 2021 1:14 pm

Wd40 wrote:
Mon, 03 May 2021 12:59 pm
the observer wrote:
Mon, 03 May 2021 9:37 am

gbpinr is 105, audinr is 57, usdinr is 75
Specific to the exchange, not sure if you know, SGDINR in 2013 was already 53. Inflation in India is 6% on average since last 7-8 years. The interest rate is also at that level. In Singapore both inflation and interest rates are much lower.

So on a real effective exchange rate basis, SGDINR at 56 is actually INR very expensive and SGD is cheap. You need to pay hikes of 10% in India as normal performance. Salaries in India are like 50% of Singapore, not 1/55th. So imagine you paid 50K SGD to and Indian employee in 2013 and then you need to give him hikes of 10% each year for the last 7 years.

Now calculate is Indian employee cheap or Singapore employee cheap?

Economics is not so easy for most people to understand.
INR depreciation is not new. I vividly recall the move of my old department out to India after 2014. Good thing I left for another role a few years before that.

You have very sound arguments as to how expensive india is, etc. But that argument comes with a biased view, because it’s up your alley.

My view comes from discussions with decision makers who are toying with the idea.

End of the day. Good luck.

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by the observer » Mon, 03 May 2021 1:54 pm

Why does your argument sound like bs when I ran this through a few indian chaps I know.

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by the observer » Mon, 03 May 2021 2:29 pm

I quote. “He spins a good fairy tale, that he should consider a job at Disney next”

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by Wd40 » Mon, 03 May 2021 2:41 pm

the observer wrote:
Mon, 03 May 2021 1:54 pm
Why does your argument sound like bs when I ran this through a few indian chaps I know.
What part of it is bullshit? Do your own research, dont listen to me or your chaps, both are anecdotal evidences.

Here are Credit Suisse Pune salaries. I dont know know where you work and what industry, but I am mainly talking about banking industry.

https://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Em ... sse/Salary

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by the observer » Mon, 03 May 2021 9:58 pm

https://www.payscale.com/research/SG/Jo ... IT)/Salary

https://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Jo ... IT)/Salary

Taking averages rather than co specific, it’s around 45 pct of Sg pay at current rates, before tax deduction. That’s IT in banking.

https://www.payscale.com/research/SG/Jo ... eer/Salary

https://www.payscale.com/research/IN/Jo ... eer/Salary

For a more generic IT software engineer, relative mid level, not senior, it’s around 20% of the Singapore equivalent’s pay. Before tax deduction.

I’ve done my research, and perhaps the rest of the forum viewers can derive their own conclusion from the links above. It’s quite obvious to me.

Also, the 10% pay hike yearly, i leave it to our Indian brethren who’s newly arrived on our Singapore shores to substantiate. My mates say it’s hot air.

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by the observer » Mon, 03 May 2021 10:29 pm

The pertinent question remains, are you getting a fair pay in Sg, in order to compare to India’s fair pay.

Also, you might want to strike Au off the list.

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal ... 57ojh.html

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by Jgrif96229 » Tue, 04 May 2021 11:04 pm

So much focus and hope has been placed on vaccines. It looks like Covid and mutations are going to be with most countries on an annual basis like Flu and Dengue. After 14 months of cases what have been the advances in treatment?Treatments that would provide high recovery rates.

Does treatment resemble Australia and New Zealand? Close your borders?

I am sure the hotel and tourist industry would have an interest.
Joseph griffin

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Re: May 1, 2021. Covid 19 community cases. What Happened?

Post by BigginHill » Wed, 05 May 2021 5:28 pm

Incidentally, mandatory SHN hotel quarantine has now been increased from 14 to 21 days from most countries.

(only a handfuld of exceptions: Oz, NZ, China, HK, Macau, Taiwan, Brunei, Vietnam, Fiji)

Yikes.

Being locked inside a hotel room for 3 weeks will surely eliminate most types of business travel & even some types of repatriation.

And who knows how long the outright ban on work pass arrivals from India, Bangladesh, Pak, Sri Lanka, Nepal will last. Another 6 months?

Interestingly, vaccination status seems to have no effect on the restrictions.

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