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SC submission advice

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Pcool
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SC submission advice

Post by Pcool » Sun, 23 Aug 2020 12:17 pm

Hi experts,

My family of 4 members, all PRs, planning to apply for citizenship as a family.

I want your advice if there is a difference if I’m the main applicant or my wife?

Here is the background:
Me: been in SG for 12 yrs, PR for nearly 3 years
Total yearly income: 160-200k
Sales in MNC (IT solution for Enterprise)
First time apply for SC

My wife: been in SG for 15yrs, PR for 12 years
Total yearly income: 80-100k
HR in MNC (manufacturing)
Rejected for SC 2-3 times, applied with Kids, husband was not in the applications because not PR yet at that time.
2 kids 1 boy and 1 girl - 7 & 9 yr olds born and raised in SG

Cheers,

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jamie9vardy
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Re: SC submission advice

Post by jamie9vardy » Sun, 23 Aug 2020 12:21 pm

Pcool wrote:Hi experts,

My family of 4 members, all PRs, planning to apply for citizenship as a family.

I want your advice if there is a difference if I’m the main applicant or my wife?

Here is the background:
Me: been in SG for 12 yrs, PR for nearly 3 years
Total yearly income: 160-200k
Sales in MNC (IT solution for Enterprise)

My wife: been in SG for 15yrs, PR for 12 years
Total yearly income: 80-100k
HR in MNC (manufacturing)
Rejected for SC 2-3 times, applied with Kids, husband was not in the applications because not PR yet at that time.
2 kids 1 boy and 1 girl - 7 & 9 yr olds born and raised in SG

Cheers,
Nationality and race?

Why only became PR 3 years ago when you’ve been here for 12 years?

Your PR was sponsored by spouse or through PTS?

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Re: SC submission advice

Post by Pcool » Sun, 23 Aug 2020 12:37 pm

All Vietnamese.
2 kids and I only obtained PR via wife’s sponsorship 3 yrs ago. Got rejected PR a number of times before that

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singaporeflyer
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Re: SC submission advice

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 24 Aug 2020 5:42 pm

Pcool wrote:
Sun, 23 Aug 2020 12:37 pm
All Vietnamese.
2 kids and I only obtained PR via wife’s sponsorship 3 yrs ago. Got rejected PR a number of times before that
10-15% chance.

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Re: SC submission advice

Post by the observer » Mon, 24 Aug 2020 7:47 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 5:42 pm
Pcool wrote:
Sun, 23 Aug 2020 12:37 pm
All Vietnamese.
2 kids and I only obtained PR via wife’s sponsorship 3 yrs ago. Got rejected PR a number of times before that
10-15% chance.
You can actually have a methodology to roughly estimate the chances.

Last year, give or take 20k citizenships issued a year.
Assume that it would be tightened somewhat this year, say 10-15k.

Vietnamese would be classified as Others, hence it would be ard 2-3% out of 10~15k of total approvals a year?
That's my assumption.

So 200~450 approvals a year. Key question is how many would be applying? From a PR population of 500k odd residents, of which already 5-10k are classified as Others.

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Re: SC submission advice

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 24 Aug 2020 8:11 pm

the observer wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 7:47 pm
singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 5:42 pm
Pcool wrote:
Sun, 23 Aug 2020 12:37 pm
All Vietnamese.
2 kids and I only obtained PR via wife’s sponsorship 3 yrs ago. Got rejected PR a number of times before that
10-15% chance.
You can actually have a methodology to roughly estimate the chances.

You really cant say in detail/certain, because even if there are 100 approvals for his ethnicity, how will you know if he is in the top 100 or last 100 out of the 500 who applied. Also you wont know how many from his ethnicity applied. What we know is only the ethnic quota and approval numbers (past, estimated), etc. But we wont know how many applied totally, how many applied in his ethnicity, etc.

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Re: SC submission advice

Post by the observer » Mon, 24 Aug 2020 8:23 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 8:11 pm
the observer wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 7:47 pm
singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 5:42 pm


10-15% chance.
You can actually have a methodology to roughly estimate the chances.

You really cant say in detail/certain, because even if there are 100 approvals for his ethnicity, how will you know if he is in the top 100 or last 100 out of the 500 who applied. Also you wont know how many from his ethnicity applied. What we know is only the ethnic quota and approval numbers (past, estimated), etc. But we wont know how many applied totally, how many applied in his ethnicity, etc.
That’s true.
But the biggest key determinant is still the ethnic quota.

Which is why an average joe Chinese Malaysian would get it far more easily than a better qualified “Others”.



This passage still rings true till today
“ The government does not disclose its evaluation criteria or decision processes beyond broad generalities, such as long-term citizen population-related goals. One of the government's stated public policy goals is to maintain relative stability in Singapore's racial and ethnic population proportions in order (in the government's view) to promote and maintain racial harmony. Consequently a PR applicant's race influences ICA's decisions.”

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Re: SC submission advice

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 24 Aug 2020 8:35 pm

the observer wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 8:23 pm
singaporeflyer wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 8:11 pm
the observer wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 7:47 pm


You can actually have a methodology to roughly estimate the chances.

You really cant say in detail/certain, because even if there are 100 approvals for his ethnicity, how will you know if he is in the top 100 or last 100 out of the 500 who applied. Also you wont know how many from his ethnicity applied. What we know is only the ethnic quota and approval numbers (past, estimated), etc. But we wont know how many applied totally, how many applied in his ethnicity, etc.
That’s true.
But the biggest key determinant is still the ethnic quota.

Which is why an average joe Chinese Malaysian would get it far more easily than a better qualified “Others”.



This passage still rings true till today
“ The government does not disclose its evaluation criteria or decision processes beyond broad generalities, such as long-term citizen population-related goals. One of the government's stated public policy goals is to maintain relative stability in Singapore's racial and ethnic population proportions in order (in the government's view) to promote and maintain racial harmony. Consequently a PR applicant's race influences ICA's decisions.”
Not to say you are wrong, but you are just repeating what has been said many many times in this forum about the policy, criteria, etc

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Re: SC submission advice

Post by Pcool » Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:24 pm

Tks guys. My intention in this post is not asking abt chance and I don’t believe it though. The only thing for sure is zero chance if I don’t submit. So my question still, is there any difference if I or my wife initiates the submission and tags the rest of family members?

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Re: SC submission advice

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:44 pm

Pcool wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:24 pm
Tks guys. My intention in this post is not asking abt chance and I don’t believe it though. The only thing for sure is zero chance if I don’t submit. So my question still, is there any difference if I or my wife initiates the submission and tags the rest of family members?

If you are main applicant,
+ve - Salary
-ve - PR not even completed one REP renewal, your age, your job scope/role

if your wife is the main applicant,
+ve - PR for long, age
-ve - Salary, job scope/role not in demand, mostly she has got her PR when it was easy in 2008

Good luck !

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jamie9vardy
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Re: SC submission advice

Post by jamie9vardy » Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:50 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:
Pcool wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 10:24 pm
Tks guys. My intention in this post is not asking abt chance and I don’t believe it though. The only thing for sure is zero chance if I don’t submit. So my question still, is there any difference if I or my wife initiates the submission and tags the rest of family members?

If you are main applicant,
+ve - Salary
-ve - PR not even completed one REP renewal, your age, your job scope/role

if your wife is the main applicant,
+ve - PR for long, age
-ve - Salary, job scope/role not in demand, mostly she has got her PR when it was easy in 2008

Good luck !
Another small +ve is his wife could still successfully sponsor his and kids PR 2-3 years back, when it’s become more difficult, more so for their nationality.

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Re: SC submission advice

Post by Pcool » Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:05 pm

[/quote]

If you are main applicant,
+ve - Salary
-ve - PR not even completed one REP renewal, your age, your job scope/role

if your wife is the main applicant,
+ve - PR for long, age
-ve - Salary, job scope/role not in demand, mostly she has got her PR when it was easy in 2008

Good luck !
[/quote]

Tks for the insights. In fact I’ve renewed once in 2018 together with all family members. PR was approved in 2017 with validity till sponsor’s renewal date in 2018.

My next question: does the no. of previous rejections have any implication in the upcoming submission?

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Re: SC submission advice

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:08 pm

Pcool wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:05 pm


If you are main applicant,
+ve - Salary
-ve - PR not even completed one REP renewal, your age, your job scope/role

if your wife is the main applicant,
+ve - PR for long, age
-ve - Salary, job scope/role not in demand, mostly she has got her PR when it was easy in 2008

Good luck !


Tks for the insights. In fact I’ve renewed once in 2018 together with all family members. PR was approved in 2017 with validity till sponsor’s renewal date in 2018.

My next question: does the no. of previous rejections have any implication in the upcoming submission?
Not renewed in the sense, I meant not completed one block of 5 years as PR

previous rejections - ICA has clear history of all your past rejections. unless something improves significantly, chance/outcome is going to be the same.

To be honest, with this pandemic now, things are going to be more tough than before.

Also im not sure if you can be the main applicant, as now you are a dependant PR and not a main PR.
Last edited by singaporeflyer on Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pcool
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Re: SC submission advice

Post by Pcool » Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:19 pm

Yes can, I tried to initiate the application online and tag the rest, no problem at all. This way if approved, I could thank my wife in return for her sponsorship when I got my PR haha😀

The difference this time is we apply as whole family.

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Re: SC submission advice

Post by singaporeflyer » Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:29 pm

Pcool wrote:
Mon, 24 Aug 2020 11:19 pm
Yes can, I tried to initiate the application online and tag the rest, no problem at all. This way if approved, I could thank my wife in return for her sponsorship when I got my PR haha😀

The difference this time is we apply as whole family.
Please go ahead and try. You didn't try to catch the main consideration that we were trying to highlight. :?

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