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Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

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Cohen123
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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby Cohen123 » Tue, 12 Feb 2019 10:13 am

Mad Scientist wrote:From my experience, I had no problem with DBS and Citibank.
Bear in mind , I had this done many years ago and rules may change. Once I had the CPF withdrawal approved from CPF, I showed them my POSB account to the CPF officer as POSB and DBS account remittance is done on the same day whereas other banks will receive the funds into your account on the next business day
I went over to DBS, showed them my OZ PP and copy of my SG ID , passport and the renunciation letter from ICA. They had all the info about myself change it on the spot in their system and confirmed funds received from CPF board on the same day.
I did the same with Citibank. No dramas
I had a standing order prepared with Citibank and DBS if I need any remittance done back to OZ. I supplied them CBA account etc... Its done
Agreed, every individual has their own needs and priority to be taken care of first. The older we get the less we are open to risky investment
I don't pay tax in OZ as I reside in NZ 186 days in a year hence my super is in NZ. I pay tax in NZ and my residual tax is bugger all for ATO.
I have a OZ private super which I had for many years now
What I am trying to convey is interest earned in Singapore is not tax deductable. If you need only some money to get by living in OZ , leave the bulk in Singapore in TD/FD or any related instruments that you are comfortable with
I am not forcing you to follow my footstep , I am just sharing what I know
What PNGMK wrote above is all you need for remittance


Hi MS,

Thank you for your reply and understand that current process can differ from your experience. Nonetheless, I find your information very helpful, and calming. Even if it is a psychological reassurance that it’s not as painful as I had envisaged.

(1) Did you manage to renounce in one day without any cooling period ?
(2) did you approach CPF on the same day?

It would be great if I can accomplish all of that in ONE day. I only have 4- 5 days in SG and was hoping for a speedy process.

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 12 Feb 2019 11:01 am

Interest in a Singapore bank account is taxable for an Australian tax resident.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
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Cohen123
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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby Cohen123 » Tue, 12 Feb 2019 11:22 am

Yes. Not much interest to declare there, as it is an everyday account, but I did.

In case any one is keen on reading ATO rulings on CPF , here are 2 links. They do not mention SG CPF but the details are more than coincidental.

I don’t have the accountancy expertise to decipher what it means. I think it has to do with that component of the CPF will be taxed by the ATO. If you know what it means, please share your views.

https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/view.ht ... 1231235958
https://www.ato.gov.au/law/view/view.ht ... 1231235958

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 12 Feb 2019 3:01 pm

Yes on both of your questions. I do not need cooling off period as situations were getting out of control then
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby PNGMK » Tue, 12 Feb 2019 5:33 pm

I can barely comprehend what the ATO is saying... however I think you're are ok and do no have to declare your CPF as Australian income or capital gains if you close down CPF and withdraw the total amount ("amounts deposited") from the fund but income accumulated (which is both interest and contributions) WHILE you were a resident tax payer IN AUSTRALIA would be assessable for income tax.

Singapore and Australia do not have a dual taxation agreement to my knowledge.

Relevant paras:

In this case, you withdrew your interest in the Overseas Fund during the 20YY-ZZ income year. A withdrawal of an amount that represents amounts deposited by you would come within paragraph 99B(2)(a) of the ITAA 1936. Distributions, to the extent that they come within subsection 99B(2), would be excluded from amounts assessable under subsection 99B(1).

However, the income accumulated in the Overseas Fund (paid to you as a resident taxpayer) that is normally taxable in Australia and had not been previously subjected to tax in Australia would be assessable to you under subsection 99B(1) of the ITAA 1936.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

Cohen123
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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby Cohen123 » Tue, 12 Feb 2019 6:12 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:Yes on both of your questions. I do not need cooling off period as situations were getting out of control then


Hi MS,

Here’s hoping I am able to get the renunciation and CPF withdrawal all in ONE day.

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby Mad Scientist » Tue, 12 Feb 2019 6:22 pm

You'll be right mate.

Just make sure you prepare all your necessary docs. The people at ICA are very helpful, not sure ask them to guide you

No major drama, just another day in the office
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

Cohen123
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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby Cohen123 » Wed, 13 Feb 2019 7:49 am

PNGMK wrote:I can barely comprehend what the ATO is saying... however I think you're are ok and do no have to declare your CPF as Australian income or capital gains if you close down CPF and withdraw the total amount ("amounts deposited") from the fund but income accumulated (which is both interest and contributions) WHILE you were a resident tax payer IN AUSTRALIA would be assessable for income tax.

Singapore and Australia do not have a dual taxation agreement to my knowledge.

Relevant paras:

In this case, you withdrew your interest in the Overseas Fund during the 20YY-ZZ income year. A withdrawal of an amount that represents amounts deposited by you would come within paragraph 99B(2)(a) of the ITAA 1936. Distributions, to the extent that they come within subsection 99B(2), would be excluded from amounts assessable under subsection 99B(1).

However, the income accumulated in the Overseas Fund (paid to you as a resident taxpayer) that is normally taxable in Australia and had not been previously subjected to tax in Australia would be assessable to you under subsection 99B(1) of the ITAA 1936.


HI PNGMK,

Thanks for trying to decipher those rulings. As you can see, it’s a matter of understanding what is the current standing; and the whole CPF withdrawal/transfer process does not seem so scary.

What is the taxable component is the question that will be answered if those rulings are deciphered.

Australia and Singapore do have DTA. But as CPF and dividends is tax free, the DTA is not going to help in minimisation strategies.

Any one who can help decipher those rulings?

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby PNGMK » Wed, 13 Feb 2019 8:07 am

Cohen123 - you need an Aussie Tax Accountant to be sure. As Australia relies on 'self assessment' and allows mistakes in tax forms I would take the risk myself and only declare the interest portion when you file next July if you close the CPF account and remit to Australia. If it's picked up then get advice and correct it.

I personally don't really see a major issue unless we are talking many hundreds of thousands (half a mill or so) which I doubt you have in CPF.

Remember - every dollar that you have put into CPF has come from income that had tax paid on it - it was not tax free income that accumulated into CPF - (yes there is a deduction in IRAS code for CPF contributions but this is still taxed income). There is no reason for you to be double taxed on the contributions that made the fund up (i.e. it's 'corpus').
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

Cohen123
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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby Cohen123 » Fri, 15 Feb 2019 12:25 pm

Wanted to share this update from accountant.

The lump sum transfer of CPF is subjected to tax the day you received it. It is treated as a foreign investment fund. The bad news is ATO ruling clearly states that there is no apportionment of the amount included in assessable income by reference to the residency status of the beneficiary as at the time the income was derived by the trust.

What this means is that all the interest you have earned all those years is considered income when you received it.

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby PNGMK » Sat, 16 Feb 2019 10:17 am

Cohen123 wrote:Wanted to share this update from accountant.

The lump sum transfer of CPF is subjected to tax the day you received it. It is treated as a foreign investment fund. The bad news is ATO ruling clearly states that there is no apportionment of the amount included in assessable income by reference to the residency status of the beneficiary as at the time the income was derived by the trust.

What this means is that all the interest you have earned all those years is considered income when you received it.


Thanks for the update. That is unfortunate and in my opinion a very unfair ruling. However if you're on a low marginal tax rate (as I assume you are not earning much now) then it may not be too much of a hit. PS there maybe a way around this for future readers and that would be to cash in and keep CPF in Singapore before becoming tax resident in Australia (you'd need to be non-resident) - as such the income would be foreign income. Once the money is in a bank account in Singapore at some point repartriate the funds to Australia once you are tax resident in Oz and it would be 'savings' rather than a return from a foreign investment fund (the return being realized while you are non tax resident).
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

Cohen123
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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby Cohen123 » Sat, 16 Feb 2019 1:59 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Cohen123 wrote:Wanted to share this update from accountant.

The lump sum transfer of CPF is subjected to tax the day you received it. It is treated as a foreign investment fund. The bad news is ATO ruling clearly states that there is no apportionment of the amount included in assessable income by reference to the residency status of the beneficiary as at the time the income was derived by the trust.

What this means is that all the interest you have earned all those years is considered income when you received it.


Thanks for the update. That is unfortunate and in my opinion a very unfair ruling. However if you're on a low marginal tax rate (as I assume you are not earning much now) then it may not be too much of a hit. PS there maybe a way around this for future readers and that would be to cash in and keep CPF in Singapore before becoming tax resident in Australia (you'd need to be non-resident) - as such the income would be foreign income. Once the money is in a bank account in Singapore at some point repartriate the funds to Australia once you are tax resident in Oz and it would be 'savings' rather than a return from a foreign investment fund (the return being realized while you are non tax resident).



Had that discussion with the accountant and unfortunately, it will require of you 2-3 years to be out of Australia to claim you are a non-resident. You cannot establish any habitual behaviour to show you are residing in Australia. Even the number of times you visit is under scrutiny if you claim to be a non-resident. This is the trap that a lot of FIFO workers fall into.

The accountant said that there is an exchange of data or data matching going on since September 2018. So if you, for example change your residency to your bank account, ( since you have given up SG-ship), the bank will have have to report the changes under CRS. The accountant says most banks/credit cards already have the obligation to report any change in residency.
Last edited by Cohen123 on Sat, 16 Feb 2019 4:22 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Cohen123
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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby Cohen123 » Sat, 16 Feb 2019 2:01 pm

PNGMK wrote:
Cohen123 wrote:Wanted to share this update from accountant.

The lump sum transfer of CPF is subjected to tax the day you received it. It is treated as a foreign investment fund. The bad news is ATO ruling clearly states that there is no apportionment of the amount included in assessable income by reference to the residency status of the beneficiary as at the time the income was derived by the trust.

What this means is that all the interest you have earned all those years is considered income when you received it.


Thanks for the update. That is unfortunate and in my opinion a very unfair ruling. However if you're on a low marginal tax rate (as I assume you are not earning much now) then it may not be too much of a hit. PS there maybe a way around this for future readers and that would be to cash in and keep CPF in Singapore before becoming tax resident in Australia (you'd need to be non-resident) - as such the income would be foreign income. Once the money is in a bank account in Singapore at some point repartriate the funds to Australia once you are tax resident in Oz and it would be 'savings' rather than a return from a foreign investment fund (the return being realized while you are non tax resident).



It would be very hard not to be tax resident if you are able to renounce SG- ship. After all, you would have to satisfy the residence requirements to get your AUS citizenship.

If you put the money into the savings account, it does not mean you are scot free. Especially now there is CRS reporting between the bank and country of residency (as you will have to declare your residency to the SG bank having withdrawn your CPF and alerting them to the sum of incoming money) , you would still be liable for the assessment of audited.

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby PNGMK » Sat, 16 Feb 2019 8:40 pm

Interesting indeed.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

Cohen123
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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Postby Cohen123 » Sun, 17 Feb 2019 6:54 am

Unfortunately, this advice is not exactly what we want to hear. There are tax minimisation strategies to consider and hence it’s important to know where you stand.

But if anyone else has their experiences that is different, please share


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