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Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

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Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by alvinlwh » Thu, 13 Dec 2018 7:49 pm

Hi, I had been reading this forum for years so my guess is I already know the answers to some of my questions. However I will like some confirmation from the experts/experienced here if possible. Questions had often been asked here from people with SG born sons that had moved overseas. My situation is kind of the reversed.

My situation: I am a third generation Singaporean with dual SG and UK nationality (no ICA do not know that). My wife is a Malaysian. She has UK ILR received this year. She will apply for UK citizenship if the Scots wants another independence vote, if not, she is happy to stay as ILR.

Currently, we have a daughter born in the UK with UK citizenship by lex soli first, and SG citizenship by descent approved 6 months later. She is also in the process of getting MY citizenship (expected next year), so she will effectively be a trinational.

My wife is pregnant at the moment, 20 weeks, although sex unknown at the moment, our "feeling" is it will be a boy.

My questions: The baby will be born in the UK, and on the grounds of either my British citizenship OR my wife's ILR, it will be a British citizen first and foremost. If a boy and I register him to be a SG citizen, I know he will be liable for NS (as proven by a recent TH/SG boy). However there are stories here that exemption are granted for "not using the benefits of a SG citizenship past the age of 11/13".

Is that still correct?

One of the Moderators here (cannot remember if it was MS or SMS) said years ago to someone on here that the nationality of birth takes precedence, what does this means? That statement was made to someone with the reversed situation to me (i.e. son is SG by birth, migrated and acquire another citizenship), so how will country of birth affect things in my case?

I understand that no SG passport are required for dual minors, just a Right to Enter (or something like that) stamp in my children's UK passport, so if I do not apply for a SG passport for my future (if) son, that is one "benefits" crossed out. How about other things? Like Baby Bonus? CDA account?

I understand that a bond is required for a long exit permit, does that apply to Singaporean male by descent, never had a SG passport and never stayed in SG? (I think I can guess the answer to this one will be "yes")

If I ever return to SG (not likely) with non-registered children after, say, 10 years, what happens? Will they still be eligible for SG citizenship? If not what? PR? LTVP? Also if in the future, say 25 years time, they decided to move to SG (work, study, etc), will non registration as a SG citizen at birth be a disadvantage? Will this be similar to the cases of second generation PR giving up PR to skip NS and becoming blacklisted?

Finally, a question I think no one had ever asked: My wife has a desire to register our children as Malaysian citizens too. Malaysia also has NS. Now if both countries calls up the same person for NS at the same time, what happens? The child is a citizen of both countries by descent, neither should take precedence over the other right? Or to really mix things up, lets say UK decided to have NS again, surely no one in the right mind will make a person do NS 3 times?

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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by PNGMK » Thu, 13 Dec 2018 8:23 pm

Where do you intend to permanently live? It's not easy to have your cake and eat it with SC for boys. You either need to register him for SC with ICA (within a fairly short period) and accept that at age 11 you need to decide which way you're going or accept he cannot hold SC.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by alvinlwh » Thu, 13 Dec 2018 9:41 pm

PNGMK wrote:Where do you intend to permanently live? It's not easy to have your cake and eat it with SC for boys. You either need to register him for SC with ICA (within a fairly short period) and accept that at age 11 you need to decide which way you're going or accept he cannot hold SC.
If you ask me today, the answer is UK. However that answer may change in 10, 20 or 30 years' time. Which is why I am asking these questions now, like this one:

"If I ever return to SG (not likely) with non-registered children after, say, 10 years, what happens? Will they still be eligible for SG citizenship? If not what? PR? LTVP? Also if in the future, say 25 years time, they decided to move to SG (work, study, etc), will non registration as a SG citizen at birth be a disadvantage? Will this be similar to the cases of second generation PR giving up PR to skip NS and becoming blacklisted?"

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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by Mad Scientist » Fri, 14 Dec 2018 1:33 pm

You've got it all wrong. You have jumble it up.
First and foremost, Singapore and Malaysia does not allow dual citizenship period.
You decide this one first then others will fall into places.
Any dual citizenship especially if you are talking about Singapore citizenship , it only last till they are 21 whereby they have to decide to give up one nationality.
I'm not sure about Malaysia side of law but I am certain dual citizenship is not allowed there too
Please don't pm me as I am not going to teach you how to circumvent the law. Many have offered me money and others, sorry not interested, I have money but it is legal
Just in case you are going or thinking of thru this route
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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 14 Dec 2018 3:29 pm

If you are holding dual citizenship as an adult, I won't touch this with a 10' barge pole.

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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by alvinlwh » Mon, 17 Dec 2018 6:06 pm

Mad Scientist wrote:You've got it all wrong. You have jumble it up.
First and foremost, Singapore and Malaysia does not allow dual citizenship period.
You decide this one first then others will fall into places.
Any dual citizenship especially if you are talking about Singapore citizenship , it only last till they are 21 whereby they have to decide to give up one nationality.
I'm not sure about Malaysia side of law but I am certain dual citizenship is not allowed there too
Please don't pm me as I am not going to teach you how to circumvent the law. Many have offered me money and others, sorry not interested, I have money but it is legal
Just in case you are going or thinking of thru this route
I am asking for my unborn child and SG allow dual up to 21. Also, as a matter of fact, I submitted a copy of her British Passport when applying for her Singapore citizenship by descent, so ICA are well aware of her situation. I even presented both her SG and UK passport at Changi's immigration counter and asked them which one they want.
EDIT: FYI, I actually got SG citizenship for my current 2 years old girl when she was born while both of us are holding British Citizenship as well. Further more, application was done remotely to ICA, as in we are not even in SG. Her SG certificated of nationality was collected from ICA without either of us ever setting foot in SG.

MY, I am not sure for how long, but they are aware of my currently 2 years old is a British born national and yet they accepted her application. Strangely, they do not seem to allow dual nationality with a SG one but UK one is OK.

I am not asking about how to circumvent the law, I am asking about my unborn child, which can legally be a dual national up to 21. What I am specifically asking for is, if a male, how will NS works for a Singaporean by descent and dual national of countries with NS too.

Most of the posts here are about SG by birth and acquiring a different citizenship later. My question is different, as the child will not be a SG citizen by birth, will not grow up in SG, and do not actually need to apply for a SG passport.

If you are talking about me, well, don't worry, I am not asking about myself. I had taken this post by your goodself in 2013 (told you I had been reading this forum for years) by renewing my PP at ICA in SG, never had a problem.

"You are too naive in this aspect of intelligence and immigration risk profiling by many countries. I had many encounters of SGers whom held dual citizenship being caught at SG border and being told to renounce one or the other and at the same time either being ticked off or fined for that matter. After some soul searching, they realised had renewed their SG PP at the SG overseas embassy. I had come across of SGers whom renounced foreign PP at 21 , served the NS but tried to regain his SG PP by applying at their foreign embassy in SG after that. Got caught by ICA and the rest is history. These are just two examples. How in the world did ICA knows unless the officers at the embassy passed this infos to ICA.
Doing the PP at home country reduces the risk of this mishap.. "
Last edited by alvinlwh on Mon, 17 Dec 2018 7:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by alvinlwh » Mon, 17 Dec 2018 6:16 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If you are holding dual citizenship as an adult, I won't touch this with a 10' barge pole.
Hi SMS

After a long search, I found your post.
viewtopic.php?f=55&t=101861&p=687393&hi ... ce#p687393

You are answering to a guy who is SG by birth, AU later on. You specifically said:

"You are a Singaporean citizen by birth. You are an Australian citizen either by naturalization or descent. In either case, Singapore citizenship takes precedence, therefore, because Singapore doesn't allow deferments for Tertiary educations, they are not likely to give you an extension for tertiary education even though you are almost finished."

So my question was, if the situation is reversed, non-SG by birth, SG by descent, does your above statement still stands?

Note that in my reply to MS, I am not asking about myself, I had served my NS and MRed already. MINDEF is no longer interested in me.

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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by alvinlwh » Mon, 17 Dec 2018 6:37 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:If you are holding dual citizenship as an adult, I won't touch this with a 10' barge pole.
Hi SMS,

Found another post by you where you mentioned this precedence thing.

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=97073&p=655440&hil ... ce#p655440

You said:

"One thing that comes to mind is the fact that even though he never gained an NRIC, He was and currently still is a Singapore Citizen. Unless proper protocols were followed, there is no way he can get out of it OR out from under it. As a Singaporean male, by birth, he would be automatically entered in the relevant databases (of which all are now linked) as having been born a citizen, male, eligible for NS (Mindef would have him on their radar as they are linked into the database) as there has be no record of death filed and no record of doing NS either. Therefore, in all probability, he will be listed as a deserter (through no fault of his own, but nonetheless). Now, assuming his passport shows him as his place of birth as Singapore, and IF he is Asian, this will probably flag an alert Immigration Officer to run his name through the database to ensure there are no flags on the individual before allowing him through immigration. If there is a flag, they will still let him in, but as soon as he is on the other side of the counter he will be picked up and held for desertion."
......
"He most surely is a Singapore Citizen by birth which will take precedence over all other Citizenships and until he finds a way to legally renounce it, he will remain at risk for both desertion and holding multiple citizenships in violation of Singapore law which applies before all others."

If citizen by birth takes precedence over all other citizenship, then how does the law works for a person that is not a SG citizen by birth? Place of birth in passport will not be SG as he (assuming will be a boy) will not be born in SG.

Edit, found a third one:

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=89853&p=600079&hil ... ce#p600079

"For the record, when looking at citizenship, always, your citizenship of birth will take precedence over a naturalized citizenship. Additionally, if you are breaking the law by not having renounced your citizenship in Singapore legally, whether or not you have a Singapore Passport is immaterial. "

Edit again

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=61423&p=403164&hil ... ce#p403164

"If you left the country and took up residence in another country and knowingly did not return to do your NS that's pretty serious. (especially if you eventually took up citizenship in the other country before legally being able to renounce Singapore's citizenship. While the dual citizenship may well be allowed in the 2nd country, the country of birth's citizenship takes precedence."

What if never left the country as never actually had residence there in the first place?
Last edited by alvinlwh on Mon, 17 Dec 2018 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by alvinlwh » Mon, 17 Dec 2018 7:59 pm

Dear MS and SMS

Even if you think that I am trying "to circumvent the law", if you read my questions again, I am not. The "circumvent" part, I already gained enough information from here to know to do it.

My questions (summing them up in point form) are:
1. UK by birth, SG by descent, never lived, studied or apply for SG passport, NS exemption possible?

2. To SMS: What does "country of birth takes precedence" means? Country of birth not SG, so how will it affect NS liabilities? In fact, how does it affect everything else?

3. Does things like Baby Bonus, CDA account, etc count as "benefits of SG citizenship"?
(BB only last for the first 2 years but CDA last for ever)

4. Is bond required for a long exit permit for a male SG citizen by descent that had never lived, studied, apply for PP, or otherwise gain any "benefits" of SG citizenship?

5. If I were to return to SG, and my child(ren) were never registered as SG citizens by descent, what status will they then hold? Also, if never registered, will it affect their future adult application for EP/WP, PR, SG citizenship?

6. If registered also as a Malaysian by descent, and both SG and MY called the same person up for NS at the same time, how?

As you can see from the simplified questions above, there are nothing illegal that I am planning to do. Anything thing illegal had already been done. So dear MS and SMS, I know both of you are very precise and knowledgeable, so can we stick with the above 6 questions about my future child(ren)?

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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 17 Dec 2018 9:15 pm

alvinlwh wrote:Dear MS and SMS

Even if you think that I am trying "to circumvent the law", if you read my questions again, I am not. The "circumvent" part, I already gained enough information from here to know to do it.

My questions (summing them up in point form) are:
1. UK by birth, SG by descent, never lived, studied or apply for SG passport, NS exemption possible?

Yes but the caveat is that the rules may change. Singapore is facing a crisis in manning NS.

2. To SMS: What does "country of birth takes precedence" means? Country of birth not SG, so how will it affect NS liabilities? In fact, how does it affect everything else?

You can only think about this in terms of each countries laws. From the POV of Singapore your child is dual, no country takes precedence because there is no distinction in Singapore between a naturalised or natural born citizen unlike the United States or UK has.

3. Does things like Baby Bonus, CDA account, etc count as "benefits of SG citizenship"?
(BB only last for the first 2 years but CDA last for ever)

The primary benefits are a passport, NRIC and post primary education and health care from what I can observe.,

4. Is bond required for a long exit permit for a male SG citizen by descent that had never lived, studied, apply for PP, or otherwise gain any "benefits" of SG citizenship?

Yes. Provided CMPB can find him. As per MS advice request 364 days each time.

5. If I were to return to SG, and my child(ren) were never registered as SG citizens by descent, what status will they then hold? Also, if never registered, will it affect their future adult application for EP/WP, PR, SG citizenship?

I think they will struggle to attain any form of pass. This is clear in the cases I have personally known where the parents of children born to dual national couples in Singapore have chosen NOT to take up Singapore citizenship for their children.

6. If registered also as a Malaysian by descent, and both SG and MY called the same person up for NS at the same time, how?

There is no compulsory NS in Malaysia but this is absolutely the risk of having multiple nationalities.

As you can see from the simplified questions above, there are nothing illegal that I am planning to do. Anything thing illegal had already been done. So dear MS and SMS, I know both of you are very precise and knowledgeable, so can we stick with the above 6 questions about my future child(ren)?
You're trying to have your cake and eat it and I understand why. At least you're thinking ahead.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 17 Dec 2018 10:18 pm

alvinlwh wrote:Dear MS and SMS

Even if you think that I am trying "to circumvent the law", if you read my questions again, I am not. The "circumvent" part, I already gained enough information from here to know to do it.

My questions (summing them up in point form) are:
1. UK by birth, SG by descent, never lived, studied or apply for SG passport, NS exemption possible?

Based on the test case recently of the Thai guy, I would have to say that what we preached here in years gone by while still relevant, is certainly something that has a new facet due to the test case with the Thai who actually returned to do his NS as was required by law. They, uncharacteristically, bent a little bit. Which might be something that will happen more in the future but it still isn't something that I'd bet on. Another similar piece of news in the last couple of days is the high court overturned a lower courts rejection of a gay doctor being granted the ability to adopt his son who was born in the US with his seed and a donor egg by a surrogate mother which Singapore doesn't allow at all. Again, I wouldn't put any stock in this happening again anytime soon, but the simple fact that is has (both very recently) is enlightening, to say the least.

2. To SMS: What does "country of birth takes precedence" means? Country of birth not SG, so how will it affect NS liabilities? In fact, how does it affect everything else?

If one holds Singapore Citizenship and is a male, he is obligated to do NS regardless of how he obtained it. (in theory - see my comments later on this). In most countries it means the country you are born in with only a very few that are different (the main one is the US - but I think that may have changed somewhat in the past 5~8 years) My children have two "Birth Certificates" one from Singapore where they were physically born and the other entitled "Birth Certificate of a Citizen born abroad" which signifies that they were a citizen at birth in both countries. Both of mine had dual citizenship US-SG. My son had to register with the MINDEF as well as the US Selective Service, so yes, he had the potential to be called up by either/both. But with the Draft in the US in Mothballs since 1975, there was little chance of a call up unless the US declared out and out war with somebody, But as I'm a US NAM Vet, I'm also a believer of Military Service but if he can do it and avoid an actual confrontation, he was going to do military service one way or another. My advice was to do it in Singapore as there was little to no danger that way and then the odds of the US calling him up were virtually nil. He did his NS in the Singapore Navy and is 29 now.

The simple answer to that, to me, is the fact that PR's sons who take up PR are also obligated by law to do NS as well as citizens. They are not SG Citizens and normally single country citizenships. That should tell you something.

3. Does things like Baby Bonus, CDA account, etc count as "benefits of SG citizenship"?
(BB only last for the first 2 years but CDA last for ever)

From what I know, in the past, only attending the local school system into Secondary School was considered as having 'enjoyed' the socio-economic benefits of Singapore. Additionally, renewing a child's passport or gaining a NRIC in addition would condemn them to having enjoyed... This is why the age for alerting ICA about impending changing of citizenship used to be 11 years old (PSLE - Primary School Leaving Exams) Once having started Secondary School, bang! It was later changed primarily due to the introduction of the biometric passports as I've been given to understand.

4. Is bond required for a long exit permit for a male SG citizen by descent that had never lived, studied, apply for PP, or otherwise gain any "benefits" of SG citizenship?

Technically, yes.

5. If I were to return to SG, and my child(ren) were never registered as SG citizens by descent, what status will they then hold? Also, if never registered, will it affect their future adult application for EP/WP, PR, SG citizenship?

This one I can answer by close association as my employer's son is caught in that very predicament and is 27 now. I got to know of it when I joined the company 14 years ago when he was still in Secondary school in one of the International Schools. His sister, who is 2 years older gained PR here (no NS obligation) The father is Singaporean and own his own companies here (I'm the HR & Finance Mgr) with about 125 staff at the moment. His spouse is European and a PR (long term like myself). So, to avoid having to do NS (against my admonitions at the time). The boy was always kept on a Student Visa in one of the International Schools. However, as a minor child, obtaining a student visa necessitated the filing out of forms which, of course, gave up his father's citizenship. The cat was out of the bag. To this day, once the son finished his B.Sc & M.Sc in Civil Engrg from a good UK university, he was not allowed to a) get an employment pass regardless of the Salary; b) get an ltvp (no longer a student but an adult) and to make it worse the rejections from the MOM state that he has unresolved issues with the CMPB that need to be clarified. He can come into Singapore on a bog standard SVP on his UK passport but that's it. Once the child has to register for a student visa and hasn't applied to PR with a Singaporean parent, the gig is up and the child is probably forever flagged. At least it hasn't been brought down in the case I refer to. The female child isn't liable for NS. The male is and ICA and MINDEF take a poor view of somebody who is deliberately trying to pull a fast one.

6. If registered also as a Malaysian by descent, and both SG and MY called the same person up for NS at the same time, how?

Unsure as I believe if you hold Singapore Citizenship, you cannot obtain Malaysian citizenship. I don't think the opposite is true however. So if you got his Singapore Citizenship first, that has pretty much put paid to getting Msian one. Sadly, I don't have anything to quote from at the moment.

As you can see from the simplified questions above, there are nothing illegal that I am planning to do. Anything thing illegal had already been done. So dear MS and SMS, I know both of you are very precise and knowledgeable, so can we stick with the above 6 questions about my future child(ren)?
No you are not doing anything illegal (strictly speaking) but you are trying to circumvent Singapore's laws (Not saying they are right or wrong) and you could, like my boss, screw your son's future as you do not know where he will end up or who he will be working for and then what happens when a huge promotion is dangled in front of him but he needs to to an overseas assignment for 2 years with the company's branch in Singapore. As you all like to say...die-die

Please. Think. Very. Carefully.

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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by alvinlwh » Tue, 18 Dec 2018 1:18 am

PNGMK wrote:You're trying to have your cake and eat it and I understand why. At least you're thinking ahead.
Yes sir, I do not deny that.

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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by Mad Scientist » Tue, 18 Dec 2018 11:47 am

OP

SMS has summarize much of it

You have taken a quote from my posting years ago. Good on yea for going thru this issue with a fine tooth comb. I did that for my boys and girls. Well they have their own families to take care now,

I would add a few more bites to this

Yes, SMS said is right, Once you inform them albeit apply your son SG citizenship when he is born that is it. He is hooked , sink, boat and the bait. it does not matter you apply here or overseas.
Don't even apply REP or SG citizenship.
Let him stay as UK citizenship / PP and apply on his own merit when the time comes. Then he has a chance to work and lives here in the future on this own like any other applicant on visa

If you do apply his SG citizenship by descent, NS guidelines kicks in no matter what reasons you provide, no go. The guidelines are very clear
This guidelines is set in stone. It will never change, I have been told about this 30 years ago and I am still waiting. Forget it, Ain't gonna happen !!

Flicked a few emails to my mate in Malaysia. He told me don't try your luck especially if you are Chinese born Malaysian.
" Article 24(1) of the Federal Constitution, the federal government could renounce the Malaysian citizenship of an individual who had acquired the citizenship of any other country.

“Any citizen who acquired the citizenship of another country has to give up his or her Malaysian citizenship at the National Registration Department under Article 23 of the Federal Constitution,"

Whether they enforce this ruling or not is a separate matter. You roll the dice and you take your chance. Not in Singapore though because the agencies micro management is up to scratch

I know where you are taking this, your daughter is going to face this when she turns 21. I have seen it in my own eyes where the individual citizenship was being stripped within 7 days. It can be issued with persona non grata. Others tried to apply renewal of passport back in the country of their residence and being caught out
Recently one came back and renewed at ICA and being caught, I was told.
If there is a loop hole, i would have done it myself years ago.
Tread this minefield carefully. Don't get blown in your face
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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by alvinlwh » Wed, 19 Dec 2018 6:14 pm

Mad Scientist wrote: You have taken a quote from my posting years ago. Good on yea for going thru this issue with a fine tooth comb. I did that for my boys and girls. Well they have their own families to take care now,

Well, got to read as much as possible if not I will be told off for not searching the forum and asking the same old questions over and over again. :D

Don't even apply REP or SG citizenship.
Let him stay as UK citizenship / PP and apply on his own merit when the time comes. Then he has a chance to work and lives here in the future on this own like any other applicant on visa

Question, what is REP?
You basically answered my main question, if unregistered as a SG citizen, can he apply in the future, as an adult? The answer is yes based on what you said.


If you do apply his SG citizenship by descent, NS guidelines kicks in no matter what reasons you provide, no go. The guidelines are very clear
This guidelines is set in stone. It will never change, I have been told about this 30 years ago and I am still waiting. Forget it, Ain't gonna happen !!

I thought this will be the case, just wanted to confirm it.

Flicked a few emails to my mate in Malaysia. He told me don't try your luck especially if you are Chinese born Malaysian.
" Article 24(1) of the Federal Constitution, the federal government could renounce the Malaysian citizenship of an individual who had acquired the citizenship of any other country.

“Any citizen who acquired the citizenship of another country has to give up his or her Malaysian citizenship at the National Registration Department under Article 23 of the Federal Constitution,"

Whether they enforce this ruling or not is a separate matter. You roll the dice and you take your chance. Not in Singapore though because the agencies micro management is up to scratch

Not worried about this one as my wife is the only MY born Chinese. If she decided to give birth in the future in MY, and then the child(ren) get UK citizenship by descent later and MY decided to strip him/her of MY citizenship, so be it.

I know where you are taking this, your daughter is going to face this when she turns 21. I have seen it in my own eyes where the individual citizenship was being stripped within 7 days. It can be issued with persona non grata. Others tried to apply renewal of passport back in the country of their residence and being caught out

My daughter got UK passport first (UK citizen by birth) then applied for SG citizen remotely. We were never in SG but sent the forms in to ICA instead of HC in UK to avoid the "micro management" issue you spoke about. I know more questions will be asked if I apply via the HC.

She entered SG on her UK passport, went to ICA to apply for SG passport. THEN we traveled to MY on our (me and hers) UK passport to apply for MY citizen. This way, there is no need to even let JPN know we are also SG citizens. It is strange that they allowed UK citizens to apply for MY citizen by descent but not SG citizens.

The only thing she is likely to face when she turns 21/22 is SG strips her of her citizenship and she withdraws her CPF (built up from CDA) and carry on with her studies/work/life in the UK. In the unlikely even that she picks SG over UK she will just move there and put her UK citizenship on ice (UK allows that) and if she decides to return to UK later on in life, resume it.

Also, the law you quote "could renounce the Malaysian citizenship of an individual who had acquired the citizenship of any other country", by placing MY citizenship to be last, she did not "acquire" any other citizenship after the MY one.

Many (including my own mother) had asked me "Why the hell get my children MY citizenship? SG citizenship is better than MY one." My answer is, what is the definition of "better"? If I can give my child(ren) SG citizenship, why can't my wife give them MY citizenship as well? Bottom line is they are British by birth and that trumps either of the other two, a UK passport allows the person to enter either of the two countries for 3 months while SG and MY only allows their opposite citizens 1 month. (of course there is also the kaisu aspect of being a Singaporean lah, the more the better mah! :D )

And as you said, I roll the dice, what will be the worst outcome? Her MY citizenship application gets rejected and I lose RM200.



Recently one came back and renewed at ICA and being caught, I was told.
If there is a loop hole, i would have done it myself years ago.
Tread this minefield carefully. Don't get blown in your face

I know about the case you are talking about, the woman stupidly ticked the "yes" box asking if the applicant holds another citizenship or not. The thing is UK's ILR is valid for life, even on an expired passport. It does not get removed or void (physically) on acquiring UK citizenship nor does it has an expiry date printed on it. So when renewing at ICA, just present it. As it is still a legal document/visa showing I am only a PR, it is accepted.

Again, what will be the worse case? I got told to get rid of one or the other, and guess which one I will pick?

NOTE: I am not sure how it works with the current system of BRP cards which DO have expiry dates.

PNGMK wrote that I am trying to have my cake and eat it too, I do not deny that. What I am doing is finding out the repercussions and then decide if it is worth it or not.

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Re: Dual nationality, which one takes precedence?

Post by Mad Scientist » Wed, 19 Dec 2018 7:06 pm

Sorry not REP. Reentry Permit meant for PR

ROE : child of Singapore parent born overseas use right of Entry using foreign passport when applied SG citizenship by descent

I do not know UK laws hence I will not comment. My two sons are UK and OZ citizen
But what I do know is if you are PR in most countries, PR guidelines are always fluid based on the net migration , political landscape, healthcare, social security etc. So if you are not a citizen of that country after being there for many years , you are subject to changes that may go against you. Singapore, OZ, NZ, UK and even Japan and many more change this policy ever so often to suit their goals.
Yes , let him apply on his own merit when he is able to
To have so many PRship is not ideal too.
I think there is a cut off period to reapply for UK citizen once you relinquish it
OZ is till the age of 27 if I am not wrong to reapply
Just remember you travel to Singapore in UK passport and you are holding dual citizenship UK and SG which is illegal , tread this carefully.
It might not be a slap on the wrist , it could be worse just to make an example for others
I do not know about the CDA things so I will not comment
The positive thinker sees the invisible, feels the intangible, and achieves the impossible.Yahoo !!!

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