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Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

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Jackk
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby Jackk » Tue, 17 Oct 2017 1:34 pm

Thanks for you replies.
To be honest, both of us are new to Singapore whilst the other tenant is our local colleague.

He has made quite few threats and demands on me so I honestly didn't know if I had any legal rights. Followed by a lawyers letter of demand.

If the contract is indeed binding and I do have a case against him then I'll look into SCT. It might be the only way to solve this in a fair manner.

kripaleah
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby kripaleah » Wed, 15 Nov 2017 11:56 am

Very confused,Kindly clear us,My husband rented a condo by jan 2017 at NV residency for a common room, on the time of him occupying there was a main tenant who held the agreement, then the family moved due to pass issues, i was in india by then , sooner i and my kid moved to singapore by July 21st till that time my husband was in the same room, another occupant occupied the other common room, when i moved we took the master room in the same apartment, we still did not sign any tenancy agreement as other tenant in the other common room transferred it on his name and rented the unit out, my husband paid secuirty deposit initially 700 dollars for the common room and paid 350 dollars extra for the master room which was rented out to us.we moved in by July 21st and stayed only till october 30th the contract was over so we moved, the main tenant never gave us any check list, in other words we never got any , during the time of vacating the owner was in there , the agent was in there and the main tenant supervised the home and the room and never mentioned any discrepancy except for the kitchen cupboard slightly damaged , we accepted to share the cost to bare the expenses, the main tenant urged that he will return the money once the owner returns back, we urged that we never dealt with the owner only with him, he denied , he asked for 2 weeks time , we expected our money today but rather we got a voice message of a conversation between the agent and the main tenant blaming just our family for not keeping the room clean, and the main tenant holds the tenancy agreement on his name keeps telling the same phrase'when owner gives we will give'which is really frustrating, honestly to say i took pains to clean that house when they handed over the house it was not cleaned by the prev tenant mentioned above who left to India, these used to keep the house like a rubbish puts the grilled items inside the oven for so long it starts smelling ,but now entire blame is on us , how to handle this, we never signed any agreemnt, no checklist nothing, Please guide so frustrating

new2sg2017
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby new2sg2017 » Mon, 25 Dec 2017 5:31 pm

Looking for some help here. Pardon the long post but I need to present all the facts to get sound advice.

I rented a place in late Oct 2017 - 2 year lease with a 6 month termination clause and 2 month notice period (meaning at least 8 months in the unit as a tenant) since the owner was looking to sell. The owner couldn't sell for a long time but as soon as I rented the unit, the unit got sold. My agent was a crook at best, he misrepresented a lot of things, was a real pain in the neck and then vanished after he received his money. As soon as the unit was sold, the original landlord’s agent (let’s call her OLA) was back saying she needs me to sign another TA since my original TA is invalid! Her reason: she claims I rushed them to sign the TA so she had to get that TA signed by the wife while the TA is under the husband’s name. In goodwill I signed. But there was a problem in the TA that I didn’t spot – the tenancy started in July 2017 rather than the actual (Oct 2017). The new owners are a couple and they want to move in. The (new owner) man is a property agent too and I smell rubbish in all that comes out of his mouth since him and his fiancé claim they were under the impression that I was to vacate in Jan 2018!! That’s absolutely ridiculous since I just moved in when they came out to see the unit and I mentioned to them that I had just moved in! Now 2 months into the lease, they want me to move out even before I complete the 3rd month! They are claiming that according to their lawyer, Jan 2018 marks the completion of 6 months since the lease started in July 2017 according to TA. However, I was not even in SG at the time. I came to SG in Sep 2017 and lived in several Serviced Apartments before moving into this unit in Oct 2017. They want this unit to be their marital home and are getting married in mar 2018. I want to be able to help them but my personal family situations are quite difficult to allow just packing up my bags and leaving.

Help? Please? What are my rights? Do I have to move? And, what kind of inconvenience compensation can I ask for to cover all the madness that has started since their visit last Sunday? Should I approach the SCT? Do I have enough to approach SCT?

Premium_gelato
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby Premium_gelato » Mon, 05 Feb 2018 1:43 pm

Hi, i need your help please.
Our living room and dining tiles popped a few weeks ago. I requested to be relocated while doing renovation but they didnt heed to my request. I booked my own temporary accomodation instead. Now while starting to renovate, bedroom tiles popped also. Now they didnt have any choice but to relocate us. Now they want us to come back now to the house and sleep in the kitchen or living room because bedroom tiles are not yet done. Living room totally havent finished also there are still some holes which havent covered up. They dont want me to mop the floor, just sweep and then sleep in it. I find the house uninhabitable yet. Just want to get advice from you guys on how i can manage this, i still think that we should only relocate if the place is done renovating.

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby JustSee » Fri, 09 Mar 2018 2:11 pm

kripaleah wrote:Very confused,Kindly clear us,My husband rented a condo by jan 2017 at NV residency for a common room, on the time of him occupying there was a main tenant who held the agreement, then the family moved due to pass issues, i was in india by then , sooner i and my kid moved to singapore by July 21st till that time my husband was in the same room, another occupant occupied the other common room, when i moved we took the master room in the same apartment, we still did not sign any tenancy agreement as other tenant in the other common room transferred it on his name and rented the unit out, my husband paid secuirty deposit initially 700 dollars for the common room and paid 350 dollars extra for the master room which was rented out to us.we moved in by July 21st and stayed only till october 30th the contract was over so we moved, the main tenant never gave us any check list, in other words we never got any , during the time of vacating the owner was in there , the agent was in there and the main tenant supervised the home and the room and never mentioned any discrepancy except for the kitchen cupboard slightly damaged , we accepted to share the cost to bare the expenses, the main tenant urged that he will return the money once the owner returns back, we urged that we never dealt with the owner only with him, he denied , he asked for 2 weeks time , we expected our money today but rather we got a voice message of a conversation between the agent and the main tenant blaming just our family for not keeping the room clean, and the main tenant holds the tenancy agreement on his name keeps telling the same phrase'when owner gives we will give'which is really frustrating, honestly to say i took pains to clean that house when they handed over the house it was not cleaned by the prev tenant mentioned above who left to India, these used to keep the house like a rubbish puts the grilled items inside the oven for so long it starts smelling ,but now entire blame is on us , how to handle this, we never signed any agreemnt, no checklist nothing, Please guide so frustrating



I am also very confused with your writing, please space it out properly next time.

All I can tell you is that if you have nothing signed, you have an issue. Although the messages you have can prove useful.
I would write a letter to the main tenant stating that he was the one you were dealing with and he is liable for what is owed to you, whether the LL owes him money is not your problem.
If you were at the handover and it was decided that cost for the cabinet is spilt, write that down as well and do not take the blame. Same for the cleanliness of the room - if it was not mentioned during the handover, you are not liable for it.

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby JustSee » Fri, 09 Mar 2018 2:14 pm

new2sg2017 wrote:Looking for some help here. Pardon the long post but I need to present all the facts to get sound advice.

I rented a place in late Oct 2017 - 2 year lease with a 6 month termination clause and 2 month notice period (meaning at least 8 months in the unit as a tenant) since the owner was looking to sell. The owner couldn't sell for a long time but as soon as I rented the unit, the unit got sold. My agent was a crook at best, he misrepresented a lot of things, was a real pain in the neck and then vanished after he received his money. As soon as the unit was sold, the original landlord’s agent (let’s call her OLA) was back saying she needs me to sign another TA since my original TA is invalid! Her reason: she claims I rushed them to sign the TA so she had to get that TA signed by the wife while the TA is under the husband’s name. In goodwill I signed. But there was a problem in the TA that I didn’t spot – the tenancy started in July 2017 rather than the actual (Oct 2017). The new owners are a couple and they want to move in. The (new owner) man is a property agent too and I smell rubbish in all that comes out of his mouth since him and his fiancé claim they were under the impression that I was to vacate in Jan 2018!! That’s absolutely ridiculous since I just moved in when they came out to see the unit and I mentioned to them that I had just moved in! Now 2 months into the lease, they want me to move out even before I complete the 3rd month! They are claiming that according to their lawyer, Jan 2018 marks the completion of 6 months since the lease started in July 2017 according to TA. However, I was not even in SG at the time. I came to SG in Sep 2017 and lived in several Serviced Apartments before moving into this unit in Oct 2017. They want this unit to be their marital home and are getting married in mar 2018. I want to be able to help them but my personal family situations are quite difficult to allow just packing up my bags and leaving.

Help? Please? What are my rights? Do I have to move? And, what kind of inconvenience compensation can I ask for to cover all the madness that has started since their visit last Sunday? Should I approach the SCT? Do I have enough to approach SCT?


Very unlikely you will get any compensation. It was a big mistake signing a new TA doesn't matter what reason there was.
I would file with SCT, as well as lodge a complaint against both agents - against your agent for not doing due diligence and against the LL agent for falsifying dates.

Good luck.

JustSee
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby JustSee » Fri, 09 Mar 2018 2:18 pm

Premium_gelato wrote:Hi, i need your help please.
Our living room and dining tiles popped a few weeks ago. I requested to be relocated while doing renovation but they didnt heed to my request. I booked my own temporary accomodation instead. Now while starting to renovate, bedroom tiles popped also. Now they didnt have any choice but to relocate us. Now they want us to come back now to the house and sleep in the kitchen or living room because bedroom tiles are not yet done. Living room totally havent finished also there are still some holes which havent covered up. They dont want me to mop the floor, just sweep and then sleep in it. I find the house uninhabitable yet. Just want to get advice from you guys on how i can manage this, i still think that we should only relocate if the place is done renovating.


What you find uninhabitable might be habitable for, your TA should have a clause stating something along the lines if parts of the property are uninhabitable you will pay a lower sum.
To me and most people living in the kitchen would be uninhabitable and I would write a complaint letter to the LL and agent, make sure it is Speedpost delivery receipt required, detailing the issues and that you cannot stay there any longer at current conditions.
If they do nothing, I would file a complaint with SCT.

Kalie123
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby Kalie123 » Tue, 12 Jun 2018 11:46 am

Sharing my experience with other potential expats
Property laws in Singapore favor the landlord to a large extent. Add to this a very stingy mentality of trying to squeeze the last dollar out of you, I ended up with one hell of an experience that I never had while renting 8 different homes in 4 different countries over past 10 years.
So recently I saw an apartment which looked in fair condition and I decided to rent it. I spoke to the agent who duly informed me that let me ask the landlord first. So first learning, many landlords are racists, they will want to know your nationality more than how you will treat their house. Anyways, passed the nationality test to find out landlord wants to meet me. Met the elderly couple who are in charge of the property on behalf of their overseas son and apparently passed that test too.
Next step to sign the LOI, in which I listed some obvious minor repairs. LOI signed by both parties, advance rental and deposit paid. Now comes the fun part. One week before my move in date, the agent sends me a picture of the curtain (high ceiling) which is coming down due to a major breakage in attachment and casually asks me, is this acceptable for you. I said, no it isn’t, it can totally fall off anytime, this needs to be fixed. Oh ok, I need to check this with landlord first and see if they can approve!!!!! First lesson should have complained there and then and asked for deposit back. Still had two weeks for move in so hoped for the best, turns out they start the repairs on the day of move in! First try to get a cheap handyman who only comes in to say that he can’t do it. Then it drags and anyways gets fixed with a lot of inconvenience during move in.
So during move in, the agent comes with list of items in the apartment and I am supposed to check everything is in order and sign the handover form. This is when shit starts to hit the fan. So here is what I found:
• Stove and hood doesn’t work…. Maybe the previous tenant didn’t use it
• Oven doesn’t work …. Short circuits the whole electricity if turned on
• Aircons are leaking and not serviced in 6 months, remotes don’t work
• Agents fail to provide documentation of cleaning, aircon service, curtain cleaning
• Washing machine has tar and mould inside of it
• Dirty toilets which were promised to be cleaned
I list the issues and the agent response is, “as per law you have one month” to raise any issues. Amazingly this is aligned to the law where you are consciously handed over something which doesn’t work and there is nothing you can do about it but wait for 30 days.
I asked can I pay for repairs and deduct from rent, “no you can’t, that illegal”.
Next comes the repairs, they delayed it to the last week of 30 days warranty period, use the cheapest repair service possible, getting it done half-heartedly and not properly. So I am still stuck with some of these unresolved issues.
I ended up with takeout and laundry bills as I could not cook and do the laundry. In the end, when I complained, the agent says well your tone is not too nice!
My advice for anyone moving into Singapore, when you rent an apartment, don’t sign an LOI till you are satisfied with every item in the house. Spend 15-20 min in the house, turn on all appliances and see if they work even if they look new. Even turn on hot water and laundry machine for a cycle as surely once you sign the LOI, nothing will happen. Landlord, their agent and your agent will dance to the same tune which serves the interest of the landlord.
#propnexsucks #horribleexperience

Singaporeexpat2018
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby Singaporeexpat2018 » Thu, 21 Jun 2018 3:02 pm

Hi everyone

Need help or advise :)

just arrived in Singapore and found a place to rent, but landlord / landlord’s agent is unwilling to make any changes to the tenancy agreement, including
- security deposit can be deducted for any and all conditions in the tenancy agreement and not just repairs
- additional loss of rent can be deducted from security deposit for 7 days whilst they are making repairs
- landlord will not put anything in writing before deductions are made from deposit
- landlord will conduct all repairs without allowing us to try resolve (say it’s problematic for us as potential tenants to enter property after we vacate)

We haven’t even asked for things like
- allowing reasonable attempts to pay rent otherwise 7 days we get kicked out
- limiting amount for repairs paid for the year
- ensuring no more claims after handback period

They are just not going to allow any changes, insisting this is clear and fair and standard clauses. At 4k a month and 8k deposit, I feel it’s a lot of trust to put in the landlord and agent just to secure the property.

What are your thoughts? Currently I could go either way.

Many thanks in advance

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 21 Jun 2018 7:04 pm

I would go away.

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby Strong Eagle » Thu, 21 Jun 2018 10:48 pm

Singaporeexpat2018 wrote:Hi everyone

Need help or advise :)

just arrived in Singapore and found a place to rent, but landlord / landlord’s agent is unwilling to make any changes to the tenancy agreement, including
- security deposit can be deducted for any and all conditions in the tenancy agreement and not just repairs
- additional loss of rent can be deducted from security deposit for 7 days whilst they are making repairs
- landlord will not put anything in writing before deductions are made from deposit
- landlord will conduct all repairs without allowing us to try resolve (say it’s problematic for us as potential tenants to enter property after we vacate)

We haven’t even asked for things like
- allowing reasonable attempts to pay rent otherwise 7 days we get kicked out
- limiting amount for repairs paid for the year
- ensuring no more claims after handback period

They are just not going to allow any changes, insisting this is clear and fair and standard clauses. At 4k a month and 8k deposit, I feel it’s a lot of trust to put in the landlord and agent just to secure the property.

What are your thoughts? Currently I could go either way.

Many thanks in advance


You would be a fool to get involved with this landlord in any way, and will have nothing but trouble in the future. I'd also bet money that you'll never see your deposit again if you sign this agreement.

And, I bet that the poor sap who does sign an agreement with this landlord will one day be posting in this same forum, asking if there is anything he can do when he is screwed royally by the landlord.

Compare my old landlord to your landlord.

a) I got back every penny of my deposit.
b) Clothes dryer conked out and was replaced within a couple of days, no questions asked.
c) Plumbing maintenance promptly taken care of, and plumber replaced when I told them the first one was incompetent.
d) A good working relationship to begin with. We walked the house prior to move in, took photos and made notes of everything. It took 15 minutes when we left to see that the house was in good order, minus normal wear and tear.

That is the kind of LL you want.

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby Singaporeexpat2018 » Thu, 21 Jun 2018 11:11 pm

Strong Eagle wrote:
Singaporeexpat2018 wrote:Hi everyone

Need help or advise :)

just arrived in Singapore and found a place to rent, but landlord / landlord’s agent is unwilling to make any changes to the tenancy agreement, including
- security deposit can be deducted for any and all conditions in the tenancy agreement and not just repairs
- additional loss of rent can be deducted from security deposit for 7 days whilst they are making repairs
- landlord will not put anything in writing before deductions are made from deposit
- landlord will conduct all repairs without allowing us to try resolve (say it’s problematic for us as potential tenants to enter property after we vacate)

We haven’t even asked for things like
- allowing reasonable attempts to pay rent otherwise 7 days we get kicked out
- limiting amount for repairs paid for the year
- ensuring no more claims after handback period

They are just not going to allow any changes, insisting this is clear and fair and standard clauses. At 4k a month and 8k deposit, I feel it’s a lot of trust to put in the landlord and agent just to secure the property.

What are your thoughts? Currently I could go either way.

Many thanks in advance


You would be a fool to get involved with this landlord in any way, and will have nothing but trouble in the future. I'd also bet money that you'll never see your deposit again if you sign this agreement.

And, I bet that the poor sap who does sign an agreement with this landlord will one day be posting in this same forum, asking if there is anything he can do when he is screwed royally by the landlord.

Compare my old landlord to your landlord.

a) I got back every penny of my deposit.
b) Clothes dryer conked out and was replaced within a couple of days, no questions asked.
c) Plumbing maintenance promptly taken care of, and plumber replaced when I told them the first one was incompetent.
d) A good working relationship to begin with. We walked the house prior to move in, took photos and made notes of everything. It took 15 minutes when we left to see that the house was in good order, minus normal wear and tear.

That is the kind of LL you want.



Thank you Strong Eagle! For your very direct words and sharing your experiences! I think you got very lucky with your landlord judging from what I am reading on these forums. Hope I will also be as lucky, I feel it pays to be cautious before committing to rental agreement contracts yeh

momochan
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby momochan » Wed, 27 Jun 2018 6:18 pm

When I was gonna sign the contract, I also needed the landlord to make changes on it. But lucky that he made amendments for that.

Singaporeexpat2018
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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby Singaporeexpat2018 » Wed, 27 Jun 2018 6:41 pm

Yeah I think it’s luck of the draw if you get a good agent or landlord or not. You gotta do what feels ‘right’ and I think letting this one go worked out. Found a better place and cheaper too! Kekeke

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Re: Tenancy agreements/leases and your rights as a tenant

Postby momochan » Thu, 28 Jun 2018 9:58 am

That's good! :)


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