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EP Rejection - But SAT says eligible

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cowranger
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EP Rejection - But SAT says eligible

Postby cowranger » Mon, 05 Feb 2018 8:00 pm

Hi guys,

I'm in a very hard circumstance, and very hard to understand too.

The HR Department placed an application for my Employment Pass on 25-Jan-2018. And on 3-Feb-2018, they received letter of rejection saying that I'm not eligible for work pass. MoM did not put any detail about which criteria I couldn't meet: education, qualification, etc.

But the most important thing is, before applying Employment Pass, me and my HR administrator have gone to Self Assessment Tool, then entered my information. The result was I'm eligible for both Employment Pass and SPass.

The HR administrator said that they will make an appeal to clarify, but since the root cause is unclear, I'm afraid making appeal doesn't help much.

Is there any of you have been or currently in this situation? Do you have any insight? And what is your advise on this scenario.

Appreciate all of your comments. Thanks a lot.

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Re: EP Rejection - But SAT says eligible

Postby Strong Eagle » Mon, 05 Feb 2018 10:47 pm

The SAT only tells you that you have the minimum qualifications necessary to apply for an EP. Just because you qualify to apply doesn't mean you (or your company) checks enough boxes to actually get the EP.

For example, you are going to be a body shop contractor, rented out to other companies. Not so good. Or, you meet minimum salary qualifications but you're not really making enough money for the years of experience you have. Not so good. Or, you have a history of frequent job changes. Not so good. Or, MoM was unable to verify information that you submitted. Not your fault, and still, not so good for you.

Or, the uni from which you graduated is on the list but the program you took is not. Not so good. Or, although there is no quota per se, your company hires so many EP's that they are way out of balance. Not your problem but still, not so good for you.

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Re: EP Rejection - But SAT says eligible

Postby Barnsley » Tue, 06 Feb 2018 10:43 am

Strong Eagle wrote:The SAT only tells you that you have the minimum qualifications necessary to apply for an EP. Just because you qualify to apply doesn't mean you (or your company) checks enough boxes to actually get the EP.

For example, you are going to be a body shop contractor, rented out to other companies. Not so good. Or, you meet minimum salary qualifications but you're not really making enough money for the years of experience you have. Not so good. Or, you have a history of frequent job changes. Not so good. Or, MoM was unable to verify information that you submitted. Not your fault, and still, not so good for you.

Or, the uni from which you graduated is on the list but the program you took is not. Not so good. Or, although there is no quota per se, your company hires so many EP's that they are way out of balance. Not your problem but still, not so good for you.


It seems that many folk confuse eligibility for something as an approval.
Life is short, paddle harder!!

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Re: EP Rejection - But SAT says eligible

Postby cowranger » Tue, 06 Feb 2018 10:26 pm

Thank you guys very much for your detail explanation.

I am just confused because in the letter of rejection, MoM indicated the reason that I am not eligible, however the SAT tool resulted that I am. It's just inconsistent kind of thing. Even though I completely understand that SAT result is not official approval. I don't know it also depends on many other factors. If you have any links or articles about these rules, it would be really helpful.

Anyway, I have another question. My qualification is The Degree of Engineer in Software Engineering.
There is no "Bachelor" word in my education certification. My question is whether I should submit it as Bachelor Degree? As I checked the SAT tool, there is no option for The Degree of Engineer. And I do not know if the MoM officer considers this as Bachelor Degree, either? (Yes, because there is no "Bachelor" word on it).

For some of you may ask, I'm Vietnamese, and The Degree of Engineer is very popular in my country. You can refer to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer%27s_degree for this kind of specialist.

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Re: EP Rejection - But SAT says eligible

Postby Strong Eagle » Tue, 06 Feb 2018 11:24 pm

cowranger wrote:Thank you guys very much for your detail explanation.

I am just confused because in the letter of rejection, MoM indicated the reason that I am not eligible, however the SAT tool resulted that I am. It's just inconsistent kind of thing. Even though I completely understand that SAT result is not official approval. I don't know it also depends on many other factors. If you have any links or articles about these rules, it would be really helpful.


It's not inconsistent at all. SAT is not even unofficial approval. It merely indicates whether or not you have the very minimum qualifications to even bother applying. Again, the SAT only tells you whether you have the minimum qualifications to apply, not whether your application, taken as a whole, is sufficient to grant you an EP.

There are no published "rules", only anecdotal evidence. If MoM published acceptance criteria, every last muppet in the world would be trying to tailor their application to the rules. Isn't that why you asked?

In any event, the anecdotal evidence suggests the rules are these:

  1. If you have ten years of experience and are only getting paid the EP minimum, you are not earning enough for your experience level and will be rejected.
  2. If you have an advanced degree or a technical degree and you are only getting paid the EP minimum, you are going to be rejected because either the degree is phony, or you're a bumpkin... people with advanced or technical degrees do get paid more.
  3. If you are trying to work for a company that is going to rent you out to other companies... well... the gahmen is trying to put a stop to that... no EP for you.
  4. If candidates for the job can be found locally and the company still is trying to hire you instead, you won't get the EP (see also working for cheap cheap).
  5. If you have a spotty work record with lots of jobs and gaps in between, you won't get the EP.
  6. If your resume doesn't show you with increasing levels of responsibility and increasing salary, it means you're doing the same thing over and over again... you won't get the EP.
  7. If your experience and education don't line up with the requirements of the job, you won't get the EP.

Anyway, I have another question. My qualification is The Degree of Engineer in Software Engineering.
There is no "Bachelor" word in my education certification. My question is whether I should submit it as Bachelor Degree? As I checked the SAT tool, there is no option for The Degree of Engineer. And I do not know if the MoM officer considers this as Bachelor Degree, either? (Yes, because there is no "Bachelor" word on it).

For some of you may ask, I'm Vietnamese, and The Degree of Engineer is very popular in my country. You can refer to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer%27s_degree for this kind of specialist.


This is probably creating problems for you. Most recognized schools offer varying levels of degrees... baccalaureate (Bachelors), Masters degree, and PhD. The Bachelors degree usually requires four years of study to receive it.

What is the "Degree of Engineer"? Did it take you four years to get it? Is it from an accredited university on the list? If it wasn't on the list, then you had to check something else in SAT, didn't you? The fact that your degree is not on the list probably tells you that you don't even pass the SAT.

It is likely that MoM is viewing your degree as a diploma, or a certificate from a two year training school, or perhaps a certificate for graduation from a technical training program. At the very least, it's not on their list which means they either have already decided it's not a valid educational certificate, or, they have no idea what it is.

If you cannot demonstrate to MoM that your degree is the equivalent of a four year degree, either from documents from the university you attended (you did get your degree from a university, yes?) or by being able to demonstrate its equivalency to a Singapore, UK or US degree in terms of course equivalency, I don't think you will be able to prevail in an appeal. You are caught in a trap created by those who have submitted so many fake and dodgy educational credentials to MoM.

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Re: EP Rejection - But SAT says eligible

Postby cowranger » Wed, 07 Feb 2018 9:27 am

Hi SE,

Thanks a lot for your help.

What is the "Degree of Engineer"? Did it take you four years to get it? Is it from an accredited university on the list? If it wasn't on the list, then you had to check something else in SAT, didn't you? The fact that your degree is not on the list probably tells you that you don't even pass the SAT.


You can refer to this Wikipedia for Engineer's degree: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer%27s_degree

An engineer's degree is an advanced academic degree in engineering that is conferred in Europe, some countries of Latin America, and a few institutions in the United States.

In the United States, the engineer's degree is at a more advanced level than a standard U.S. master's degree, may include a graduate thesis, but lacks the doctoral dissertation component of doctorates such as the PhD.[1] In some countries of Latin America, there is no proper engineer's degree, but the title of Engineer is used for 5 year bachelor's graduates. In the rest of Latin America and in Europe, the engineer degree is ranked at the same academic level as a master's degree, and is often known literally as an "engineer diploma" (abbreviated Dipl.-Ing. or DI).


It took me 4 years to get it from my university. In SAT tool, I can select my university from the list, but then there is no option for "The Degree of Engineer". I know a lot employees who have been graduated from my university or who have the same "The Degree of Engineer" are working just fine here. My previous applications, I've only needed to share with HR administrators my education certification and transcript, in the EP application form, I've also entered Bachelor Degree then sent back to them. (Yes, in my country the two are considered equivalent degrees) Then the HR administrator has handled the rest for me, I haven't provided any other supporting document to prove the equivalency.

If you have any experience, could you please advise on how to demonstrate the equivalency? Especially in an appeal. I really appreciate your expertise. I am asking around too but haven't found the light at the end of the tunnel.

Thanks a lot, once again.

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Re: EP Rejection - But SAT says eligible

Postby Adamly2006 » Thu, 08 Feb 2018 8:27 am

cowranger wrote:Thank you guys very much for your detail explanation.

I am just confused because in the letter of rejection, MoM indicated the reason that I am not eligible, however the SAT tool resulted that I am. It's just inconsistent kind of thing. Even though I completely understand that SAT result is not official approval. I don't know it also depends on many other factors. If you have any links or articles about these rules, it would be really helpful.

Anyway, I have another question. My qualification is The Degree of Engineer in Software Engineering.
There is no "Bachelor" word in my education certification. My question is whether I should submit it as Bachelor Degree? As I checked the SAT tool, there is no option for The Degree of Engineer. And I do not know if the MoM officer considers this as Bachelor Degree, either? (Yes, because there is no "Bachelor" word on it).

For some of you may ask, I'm Vietnamese, and The Degree of Engineer is very popular in my country. You can refer to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer%27s_degree for this kind of specialist.


Hi, I did have similar experience when I first came to Singapore in 2012 from China. Actually, one HR from another company explained to me that the purpose of SAT is more like pre-screening, shortlisting the potential candidate. If you fail SAT, don’t bother submit the application; but if you pass SAT, it just means you can proceed with the application, nothing more. After all, it’s just the opinion of a software. In my case, my HR appealed too and it turned out that the reason is that they put my passport No wrong, resulting in discrepancies.
Perhaps, you can try increasing your salary since that’s the only criteria that you can modify at this stage.
Good luck


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