[Advice needed] Renouncing PR

[rogery]

Hi all,

I'm thinking of renouncing my PR status and go back to Canada due to my wife's and son's PR application were both rejected. We feel it's very tough for the family to live in Singapore with only 1 PR. The cost of living (accommodation, study, healthcare etc) of my wife and son, as foreigners under visit pass, are too high for me and we need to take back my CPF to start again in Canada.

To have a clear view of renouncing PR, may I seek for your advice on the below matter:

1. I'm running my business in Singapore as Sole Proprietorship. Once I renounce PR, will the business also be cancelled automatically? What could I do to remain my business in Singapore after renouncing PR?

2. Is there any chance for me to come back Singapore to work later, maybe under other types of pass like S-pass or EP?

3. In case my children who are in Singapore now under LTVP want to come back to Singapore to study or work later, is there any difficulty for them to get the study or work pass?

4. Is my CPF refund in full after deduction of any tax liability? How long will is refund process? What about my personal loans with Singapore banks, will it be deducted in the CPF refund?

Anybody experienced with renouncing PR kindly share your experience. Thanks.

[BBCWatcher]

Have you nailed down at least your own reliable immigration status in Canada? It'd be unfortunate to have precarious status (or worse) there and also lose reliable status in Singapore.

You are not required to renounce PR status even after physically moving to Canada as long as you're willing to pay MediShield Life premiums (out of Medisave funds ordinarily). However, if you're caught outside Singapore without a valid Re-Entry Permit then at that point in time (expiration of your REP) your PR status will end. Some PRs precisely time their international moves. They renew their REPs then, even the very next day, move to another country and have about 4.9 years (assuming a 5 year REP) to decide whether the other country is where they want to stay.

I'm running my business in Singapore as Sole Proprietorship. Once I renounce PR, will the business also be cancelled automatically? What could I do to remain my business in Singapore after renouncing PR?

The general answer is that you'll have to transfer (e.g. sell) or wind up the business.

2. Is there any chance for me to come back Singapore to work later, maybe under other types of pass like S-pass or EP?

A chance, yes. Some individuals have done so (according to their own reports).

3. In case my children who are in Singapore now under LTVP want to come back to Singapore to study or work later, is there any difficulty for them to get the study or work pass?

No added difficulty in comparison to any other foreigner.

I'll let somebody else answer your fourth question.

[rogery]

Hi BBC,

Thanks for your advice. Yes, we have been granted Canadian PR, so I need to choose which country to reside. In Canada my whole family got PR, while in Singapore my wife and son have been rejected. I really do not want to renounce my Singapore PR, but we need to take the CPF to start new life in Canada...

[PNGMK]

4. CPF is tax free and can be withdrawn in a day if you're organised (Visit ICA, cancel PR, visit CPF main branch - there's some threads here that outline the process). You'll almost certainly need to clear your income tax status to leave the country though. Singapore banks are not likely (IME) to immediately pick up your change of status although that is an interesting question....

Have you got a job offer in Canada?

[BBCWatcher]

You may have at least practical problems re-entering Singapore if you have unsettled debts. I recommend getting those issues settled, even if you don't leave Singapore.

PNGMK asks a good question, and I would ask when your current REP expires.

[singaporeflyer]

If we search a bit about rogery's post in this forum, there is a post which shows that his REP is due for renewal in 2016.

[PNGMK]

Singapore banks will pursue debtors overseas by selling the debt off to worldwide collectors as well.

[BBCWatcher]

I never recommend "burning bridges" if it can possibly be avoided (even without international debt collectors). Good point, PNGMK.

....OK, thanks, Singaporeflyer. If the REP is expiring in 2016 then I think I'd first attempt to renew the REP assuming there's a reasonable prospect it could be renewed. (Is there?) That would provide up to 4.9 years of "insurance" in case Canada doesn't work out, bearing in mind that this insurance isn't free to carry. (There are MediShield Life premiums for as long as you're a PR.)

[rogery]

Singapore banks will pursue debtors overseas by selling the debt off to worldwide collectors as well.

I'll still pay the loans following the agreement with bank. I'm not running away so I don't really understand your point. My inquiry is only that whether I'll need to settle the balance immediately using the CPF refund, or it's a separate thing.

[ecureilx]

Singapore banks will pursue debtors overseas by selling the debt off to worldwide collectors as well.

I'll still pay the loans following the agreement with bank. I'm not running away so I don't really understand your point. My inquiry is only that whether I'll need to settle the balance immediately using the CPF refund, or it's a separate thing.

A little correction. Once the banks have sold you to the debt collectors, depending upon which country, they can do anything they want, or limit themselves to regular harassment. And telling your bank that you will settle, sometimes may stop this, or .. not.

Oh, by the way, the harassment (or debt collection steps) also add to your loan

[BBCWatcher]

I'll still pay the loans following the agreement with bank.... My inquiry is only that whether I'll need to settle the balance immediately using the CPF refund, or it's a separate thing.

It's per your agreement with the bank. Conceivably your agreement could say something about a change in your immigration status, but whatever the agreement says is how it goes (assuming it's legal under Singapore law, and most agreements with banks are).

[ecureilx]

It's per your agreement with the bank. Conceivably your agreement could say something about a change in your immigration status, but whatever the agreement says is how it goes (assuming it's legal under Singapore law, and most agreements with banks are).

You have some proof that this will fly ?

Because so far hasn't flown to my knowledge.

Ps, banks have wisened up to foreigners promising to pay and never being heard of, after that ....

[ecureilx]

Wrong thread.

[BBCWatcher]

I really do not want to renounce my Singapore PR, but we need to take the CPF to start new life in Canada...

I missed this part earlier.

There is some inherent risk leaping into a new country with both feet, with no fallback (or less fallback). If that's the best option you've got due to limited funds and outstanding debt, OK, so be it. Keep in mind CPF was supposed to be for your retirement, at least in part, rather than for present consumption. You'll be starting over again presumably and with that much less of CPF's wonderful interest compounding. Adjust your life plan accordingly.

[PNGMK]

I really do not want to renounce my Singapore PR, but we need to take the CPF to start new life in Canada...

I missed this part earlier.

There is some inherent risk leaping into a new country with both feet, with no fallback (or less fallback). If that's the best option you've got due to limited funds and outstanding debt, OK, so be it. Keep in mind CPF was supposed to be for your retirement, at least in part, rather than for present consumption. You'll be starting over again presumably and with that much less of CPF's wonderful interest compounding. Adjust your life plan accordingly.

You have a good point. I have had two friends with different views of CPF. Fran V who left his in until 67 in 2015 - he lived in the states since at least 1999 as well and his employee David A who withdrew his $19,000 in 1999 when he left for NZ and bought a Range Rover with it. I know which one made the right decision.