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Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

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loco.20
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Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby loco.20 » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 4:40 am

Hi everybody,

really appreciate your expert help!

Case is: I - a German (no bachelor degree as in Germany there is a dual system, so vocational training at a bank for 2,5 years) - (m) married to a Singaporean (on maternity leave, badly paid, master degree) looking into different visa options:

- Opened a startup 4 months ago, no customers, no transactions, as Im the brain of the company and not yet allowed to work. I applied mid December for EP, but got this week rejected as the company don't qualify to employ foreigners... Does an appeal make sense?

- As Im married to a Singaporean a LTVP+ might also be an option, but there would be the salary an issue, correct? Any ideas on that?

- Entre-pass could be an option if the company proves an intellectual property (registered but not granted yet and only 2 months to go)

What do you think?

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 6:29 am

What is your current visa status?

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby x9200 » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 8:43 am

Looks like the OP is on the short term visa.
How long are you married? How badly your wife is paid? I believe if you can show that you have savings, a record of previous employment with good salary level and your skill set is desired in Singapore, you may have a chance for LTVP(+). What sort of IP you have registered? I believe (again) it is not like you can go away with any IP, there has to be a good potential of local economy benefiting from it.

Alternatively, why don't you try to find another employer who can hire the foreigners?

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 8:53 am

The chances of someone getting an Entrepass these days, especially as a single person is about the same as the chances of me flapping my arms and flying to the moon.

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 8:54 am

OP - you say you 'opened a startup'. What is it? SP? Pte Ltd? Who owns it? Who is registered manager?

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby loco.20 » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 9:10 am

x9200 wrote:Looks like the OP is on the short term visa.
How long are you married? How badly your wife is paid? I believe if you can show that you have savings, a record of previous employment with good salary level and your skill set is desired in Singapore, you may have a chance for LTVP(+). What sort of IP you have registered? I believe (again) it is not like you can go away with any IP, there has to be a good potential of local economy benefiting from it.

Alternatively, why don't you try to find another employer who can hire the foreigners?


Thanks for your answer.
I'm here on short visit pass.
Married since June 2014. We are expecting our baby next month.

Salary is 2500 gross per month.
What's the "internal" limit these days?
I support her from my overseas dividends. (Just our rent is 7,5k per month) I also have a "filled" bank account in Singapore since one year.
However on the LTVP/LTVP+ they only ask for her salary which looks small, but I'm missing the part where she could explain my support and our financial reserves.

IP is a trademark (brand name) from our (successful) German partner company .

In the rejected EP application they asked for manpower projection which clearly stated we would hire 5 locals this year.

It's just every option has a weak point...

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby loco.20 » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 9:12 am

Strong Eagle wrote:OP - you say you 'opened a startup'. What is it? SP? Pte Ltd? Who owns it? Who is registered manager?


It's a Pte Ltd, 50k share capital, I own it 95%, 5% PR. Director is the PR and myself
We have a potential prospect (80%) of our planned revenue for this year, but on a trial, so commitment yet.

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby BBCWatcher » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 9:25 am

I recommend applying for an LTVP(+) as soon as possible. Include evidence of your reliable, proven assets and dividend income.

I suspect that evidence plus your wife's income will pass muster, but there's no point in guessing. Give it a try.

Assuming the LTVP is approved your employer (the startup presumably) can then apply for a Letter of Consent to employ you. That's a different path than the Employment Pass with different decision criteria. No guarantees, of course.

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby loco.20 » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 9:47 am

BBCWatcher wrote:I recommend applying for an LTVP(+) as soon as possible. Include evidence of your reliable, proven assets and dividend income.

I suspect that evidence plus your wife's income will pass muster, but there's no point in guessing. Give it a try.

Assuming the LTVP is approved your employer (the startup presumably) can then apply for a Letter of Consent to employ you. That's a different path than the Employment Pass with different decision criteria. No guarantees, of course.


Thanks, what is the monetary criteria for my wife to pass?

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby Strong Eagle » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 9:59 am

loco.20 wrote:
Strong Eagle wrote:OP - you say you 'opened a startup'. What is it? SP? Pte Ltd? Who owns it? Who is registered manager?


It's a Pte Ltd, 50k share capital, I own it 95%, 5% PR. Director is the PR and myself
We have a potential prospect (80%) of our planned revenue for this year, but on a trial, so commitment yet.


With this much paid up capital and a citizen spouse, I'd say you screwed up your application process. You did it all online, didn't you?

Read through my threads about the Entrepass and others about starting a business. You need a business plan to get in front of the gahmen's eyes.

BBWatcher's advice is spot on... you need to get a LTVP+, then have your PR director apply for LOC...there are no income requirements. You need to make sure that the authorities are fully aware of your situation, and that means documentation. If you submit only the basics, you'll get shot down because you don't meet the basic criteria.

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby x9200 » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 10:04 am

loco.20 wrote:
x9200 wrote:Looks like the OP is on the short term visa.
How long are you married? How badly your wife is paid? I believe if you can show that you have savings, a record of previous employment with good salary level and your skill set is desired in Singapore, you may have a chance for LTVP(+). What sort of IP you have registered? I believe (again) it is not like you can go away with any IP, there has to be a good potential of local economy benefiting from it.

Alternatively, why don't you try to find another employer who can hire the foreigners?


Thanks for your answer.
I'm here on short visit pass.
Married since June 2014. We are expecting our baby next month.

Salary is 2500 gross per month.
What's the "internal" limit these days?
I support her from my overseas dividends. (Just our rent is 7,5k per month) I also have a "filled" bank account in Singapore since one year.
However on the LTVP/LTVP+ they only ask for her salary which looks small, but I'm missing the part where she could explain my support and our financial reserves.

IP is a trademark (brand name) from our (successful) German partner company .

In the rejected EP application they asked for manpower projection which clearly stated we would hire 5 locals this year.

It's just every option has a weak point...

Write a letter which she should "attach" to the LTVP application - ask MOM how to do this - probably ordinary mail with the reference to her on-line application but maybe MOM let you both to come over and see an officer and furnish all the extra details. If for some reason they do not allow it, it should be possible during the appeal (if her application is rejected). 2k5 may be sufficient, but I also lost the track what is that number right now.

Another thought, it may be better to be careful with using your business plans as any sort of supportive arguments (unless you are forced to reveal it). If they learn them, they may try to force you into the entrepass, what, as mentioned, is not that easy these days and would required substantial investments on your side. That's my feeling at least.

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby loco.20 » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 10:23 am

x9200 wrote:
loco.20 wrote:
x9200 wrote:Looks like the OP is on the short term visa.
How long are you married? How badly your wife is paid? I believe if you can show that you have savings, a record of previous employment with good salary level and your skill set is desired in Singapore, you may have a chance for LTVP(+). What sort of IP you have registered? I believe (again) it is not like you can go away with any IP, there has to be a good potential of local economy benefiting from it.

Alternatively, why don't you try to find another employer who can hire the foreigners?


Thanks for your answer.
I'm here on short visit pass.
Married since June 2014. We are expecting our baby next month.

Salary is 2500 gross per month.
What's the "internal" limit these days?
I support her from my overseas dividends. (Just our rent is 7,5k per month) I also have a "filled" bank account in Singapore since one year.
However on the LTVP/LTVP+ they only ask for her salary which looks small, but I'm missing the part where she could explain my support and our financial reserves.

IP is a trademark (brand name) from our (successful) German partner company .

In the rejected EP application they asked for manpower projection which clearly stated we would hire 5 locals this year.

It's just every option has a weak point...

Write a letter which she should "attach" to the LTVP application - ask MOM how to do this - probably ordinary mail with the reference to her on-line application but maybe MOM let you both to come over and see an officer and furnish all the extra details. If for some reason they do not allow it, it should be possible during the appeal (if her application is rejected). 2k5 may be sufficient, but I also lost the track what is that number right now.

Another thought, it may be better to be careful with using your business plans as any sort of supportive arguments (unless you are forced to reveal it). If they learn them, they may try to force you into the entrepass, what, as mentioned, is not that easy these days and would required substantial investments on your side. That's my feeling at least.


The official reason for the EP rejection is: the company is not suitable to employ foreign employees. Spoke to MOM, they said we need to provide signed contracts from customers. This is a bit tricky as Im not allowed to work and nobody else can secure customers as they don't have the knowledge. So unless I can provide a few contracts one day this way seems to be blocked.

Question: LTVP is not handled by MOM, its by ICA correct?

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby x9200 » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 11:22 am

Yes yes, by ICA of course. The LoC has to be done with MoM, but this comes later.

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby BBCWatcher » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 2:41 pm

By the way, I do not recommend doing anything foolish like taking a "visa run." Play this "by the book." Make sure your STVP is still current while you're awaiting your LTVP decision. Apply to ICA to extend your STVP if required, and make sure you honor ICA's deadline to apply for an STVP extension.

I disagree about submitting the business plan, etc. unless ICA specifically asks -- that's not relevant to this LTVP application and probably would detract from it, actually. There is no published income (or wealth) requirement for an LTVP, but the more (and the more reliable), the better, other things being equal. So just supply solid evidence of that reliable dividend stream you have that's comfortably sustaining a S$7,500/month residence (and more), plus rock solid wealth/assets, plus whatever your wife has (her S$2500/month and anything else), and that's probably all going to be fine. ICA doesn't typically see this sort of application -- most people have to work to make ends meet much less live comfortably in Singapore -- but there are a few such people. (Congratulations.)

If you get an LTVP instead of an LTVP+, don't worry about it. There's very little difference between them any more -- and neither of the two differences will matter to you. At your next renewal ICA will probably upgrade you to an LTVP+ anyway.

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Re: Help on best Visa option. EP rejected

Postby loco.20 » Fri, 12 Feb 2016 9:06 pm

BBCWatcher wrote:By the way, I do not recommend doing anything foolish like taking a "visa run." Play this "by the book." Make sure your STVP is still current while you're awaiting your LTVP decision. Apply to ICA to extend your STVP if required, and make sure you honor ICA's deadline to apply for an STVP extension.

I disagree about submitting the business plan, etc. unless ICA specifically asks -- that's not relevant to this LTVP application and probably would detract from it, actually. There is no published income (or wealth) requirement for an LTVP, but the more (and the more reliable), the better, other things being equal. So just supply solid evidence of that reliable dividend stream you have that's comfortably sustaining a S$7,500/month residence (and more), plus rock solid wealth/assets, plus whatever your wife has (her S$2500/month and anything else), and that's probably all going to be fine. ICA doesn't typically see this sort of application -- most people have to work to make ends meet much less live comfortably in Singapore -- but there are a few such people. (Congratulations.)

If you get an LTVP instead of an LTVP+, don't worry about it. There's very little difference between them any more -- and neither of the two differences will matter to you. At your next renewal ICA will probably upgrade you to an LTVP+ anyway.


Thanks BBC and everybody for the great help. Really appreciate this free advise !!!
Will take the LTVP route and let you know then ;)


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