Strong Eagle wrote:Traditional socialism definitions state that the 'means of production are held by the state'...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
But, that's not what Bernie is proposing at all. What he is proposing is the 'strawman' list I presented... universal healthcare, a single payer system that removes the profit from healthcare insurance. I can't see why this is a bad idea. It in no way hampers competition in the healthcare market, it does provide a big hammer to control healthcare costs, and in particular, doctor owned fee for services companies that are running rampant.
Bernie supports progressive taxation, at rates substantially higher than they are now. I'm good with that.
That's 'traditional' socialism but it's very well proven by now that such state ownership consigns an economy to the basket-case league.
Socialism these days seems to have to try and achieve it's end-goals more subtly, which invariably involves a lot of bare-faced lying from socialist politicians.
You mention Scandinavia, which happens to be a region I know well. Have you seen what the cost of living is in those countries? It's eye-watering. Numbeo puts the cost of living in Oslo at +20% over Singapore, and that's despite the price of an apartment in Oslo being c60% less. Take out the big land/property line item, and Oslo might easily be double or triple the SGn COL, as a tourist it certainly is. That is what happens under 'progressive socialism' it has to be paid for, which is why those countries have boggling income-tax rates. How would you feel, just a member of the typical working middle class, paying 75% income tax?
During the 70's the UK went through a period under a a couple of socialist governments. Many of the stated goals were similar to what Sanders is advocating. UK tax rates rapidly rose to Norwegian levels*, and it triggered what was and is known as 'The Brain Drain'. A lot of higher earners simply exited the UK, with many of them heading to the friendlier shores of the US. Many of them never returned either; a permanent loss, akin to sending a conscripted army, that includes the most economically productive citizens, off to be killed in some great war.
Mebbe if Sanders were elected some of the '70s departees might decide to up sticks and return 'home'
* I remember one of the govt ministers (if not the PM himself) at the time stating that the governments intention was to
'Tax them [the citizenry, excl the working classes] until their pips squeak'.
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