Hi Drub, and welcome to the forum, shame it’s not under happier circumstances though...Drub wrote:Hi, I have been living in Singapore for 4 yrs in the same apartment. We initially signed a 2yr contract which was signed by LL and me and then every year we just signed a 1 pager. [bi/ii] I am not sure if LL ever stamped it at IRAS coz I have never received a copy. [c] For this year LL and I exchanged emails stating TA clauses remains the same and a 1 pager document was created but was not signed by me or the landlord.
I think I’d ask for proof it was handed over. I’d also request contact details for the new owner, and confirm their id, and confirm they hold the deposit. Presumably you have new details of who to pay the rent to? I’d also monitor LRA records to see the record of sale going through, and that this isn’t all a ruse. I mean for example, did you know the property was advertised, did you see the agents listing, and did people come around and view it?Drub wrote:Now there is massive leakage in the bathroom from the geyser as well as the kitchen from the sink. Also, the LL sold of the property last week and informed us yesterday that he has also handed over our 2 month security deposit.
And together with the above questions, why is the LL still carrying out repairs if he has sold it? Surely that is the new owner’s responsibility?Drub wrote:LL came today and shut off the geyser completely saying it needs to be replaced and the new LL should figure out what to do. The kitchen sink he says requires massive work and that also he will leave it to the new LL.
Neither bodes well IMO/E. I don’t know, maybe he’s spent your depo, not sold the flat, and is happy to switch off water etc and see you eventually give up and walk away. I hope that is not the case.Drub wrote:We don't know who the new LL is nor do we have any confirmation on the transfer of our deposit.
Difficult/complicated. You usually have to give a LL a reasonable chance to remedy any defects, you can’t just summarily decide to break a lease and quit.Drub wrote:Given this leakage issue, we told the landlord that we want to move out by end of this month.
I can understand why this sometimes happens (example: when conflict is brewing). Trouble is it’s now hard to tell if he’s being unreasonable as you’re not paying rent, or vice versa. Plus if this ever went to court they do not look kindly upon a tenant summarily deciding to stop paying rent, for any reason, however justified the tenant might feel it is.Drub wrote:I was out of the country for the past 1 months and hence have not paid him for last month and this month.
Sometimes it’s hard to know whether a LL is playing games with a depo. Ignorant of the laws and requirements, or WTH is going on...Drub wrote:Have asked him to adjust that against our deposit. He refuses to do so.Drub wrote:
He’s right. The depo is contingency against damages and unpaid rent at the end of the term. It’s not something there to be used at convenience during the term.
He does not, as such, have to repay you the depo, but he does have to hand-over or assign as it's known the depo over to the new owner, assuming there really is one. So who is the new owner, why have you no contact details, and why haven’t they introduced themselves to you?Drub wrote:He has is saying he will not pay back the deposit and we need to sort out with the new LL whom we have not met.
Drub wrote:We plan to vacate the house on sep 30th. Which means LL would have received payment for the entire tenure we have stayed in the house with 0 damages to the property and we don't have to deal with this new LL. he has sent us a formal email now saying we cannot vacate and we need to pay him 2 months lease breakage. If we have not signed the TA does he have any right to ask us for the same? Given he sold of the property without informing us as well as transferred our deposit to some new guy somewhere.. Any advise in this regard would help especially any legal implications
[I’ll repeat for the sake of good order that IANAL...]Drub wrote:Some more clarity on my earlier post:
1) 1st TA for 2 yrs was stamped and copy shared with me. 2nd extension also a 1 pager signed by both parties and stamped. This year we neither have a signed document nor has it been stamped.[
In the UK it would. The deposit rather than the SD that is. The deposit is not the LLs money, and he has a duty of care over it. But in the UK any such deposit is held in a 3rd party ‘tenancy deposit scheme’, i.e. it is not held by the LL. I know similar applies in Australia too. If a tenanted flat is sold the deposit is conveyed/passed from one landlord to another during the final settlement of the sale.Drub wrote:2) Does not the LL at the time of selling the property have to inform about transfer of SD to new LL? Does he also not have to share details of the new LL and provide introductions and a mutual agreement that the TA clauses stay as is? In this case there is no TA or SPT coz there was nothing signed.
Yes, surprising as it may sound some buyers do buy ‘sight unseen’. It can happen where the buyer is highly imprudent/foolish, or say when a property is so dilapidated anyway that confirming it’s precise condition isn’t of any importance.Drub wrote:3) There has been no advertisement of the flat or no agents visiting to view the property. Infact according to the LL the new LL has not even seen the property! He is a friend and they just carried over the transaction on Aug 30th. He says he has rights of the place until Sep 30th and Oct-Nov lies with the new LL.
Keep all your correspondence records. Perhaps send an e-mail and attach a photo of the damage... ‘As previously mentioned in my comms of X/Y/Z, this is the damage caused by the leak that you have not yet had repaired’. Make it clear what has happened, tell him why it has happened, request he have it repaired since it is damaging ‘your property’ – then keep a record of that e-mail/letter. That should make it harder for him to try and blame you at some later date.Drub wrote:4) The worry is with this massive leakage there has been some damage to the wooden flooring off the bedroom which the new LL can say has been caused by us and withhold our deposit. That is one worry we have about paying him the pending rent.
If the buyer has bought a flat in an English language jurisdiction, then it’s his concern that he gets translation and knows what is going on. Example: Back home, a flat in our building was bought by someone who apparently speaks no English, and as a result her English-speaking lawyer has been appointed by her to handle all matters concerning the building re: her unit. For a few months no one knew how to ‘get through’ to the new buyer, until her lawyer contacted us.Drub wrote:5) Acc to the LL, the new LL is from China and living in China but a SG PR and he rarely ever visits Singapore. He also said he cannot speak English and requires a translator. Given this how do we even know if this guy ever exists.
He has to fix the problems irrespective of whether you have paid rent. Until he does he is in breach of ‘Quiet Enjoyment’ [aka Peaceful Enjoyment]. I.e. you’re not getting what you have paid for, are entitled to, and can expect.Drub wrote:6) He has sent a message now saying he will repair the geyser and the kitchen sink and we have abide by the clauses of the 2011 TA and stay for 2 months. In his email he does not mention a word about the sale of the flat or the security deposit. All he is asking is for the 2 months rent.
This is the catch with unstamped documents that I hinted at in passing earlier. They cannot be ‘introduced in evidence’ in a court, in other words in a court’s eyes, such documents do not exist. [I have been in a court when someone tried to rely on an unstamped TA as part of his evidence. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a judge so instantly furious, since you cannot even hint at the existence of something that in the court’s eyes does not exist. That guy almost got blasted out of the back court-room door by the force of the judge’s yelling... it was quite something to witness.Drub wrote:7) if suppose he goes to court tomo, will he be able to contest with a non signed or stamped SPT?
My reply was written on and off over an hour or two; so hopefully I managed to keep to your facts as stated. Again, I suggest you might use the above as pointers to consider/research further. All you need is one thing to stop the LL in his tracks, defective Notice might be one such thing. Odds on there are others there to be found too.Drub wrote:That's all that comes to my mind now. Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the above while I think through this again. Thanks much in advance!
It is good that you are seeking answers elsewhere too. Combined together they should net down to some kind of informed (and correct!) consensus opinionDrub wrote:Based on your suggestions as well as few others I spoke to, I wrote a response to the landlord today asking for details of the sale- name of new landlord, contact details, communication on deposit transfer etc.
What a curious reply you got. I mean:Drub wrote:His response was that he has sent the issues reg. leakage to the new LL and is awaiting his response. He later fwded me an email which he has written to some xyz talking about leakage issues in the apartment and the tenant wanting to leave by end of the month. In that email he has removed the email id of the new LL. So there is no way to contact the new person and confirm if he has received my deposit. He does not mention the deposit anywhere in his email to the new LL as well.
No it’s not that explicit. The LL just has to do (essentially) his best relative to the issue. Live in Europe and have no hot water, a week might be reasonable at the max, though after say 3 days the tenant will be upset, or very upset. If it’s over a holiday (like Xmas) it can be impossible to get an engineer in at short notice, in such a case a week isn’t ideal but might still be considered reasonable. In SG for any everyday kind of repair like taps, plumbing, and so on I can’t see how over a week to send out a technician for at least an initial inspection/diagnosis would be reasonable.Drub wrote:Good point on the peaceful enjoyment- 2nd day without basic necessity being provided and no action from his end. The old TA does not talk about any duration on violation of this from LL. what's the usual norm - within how many days does he have to address this issue? Or else what action can we take?
I would not (as a LL) seek to extend a TA by writing a simple e-mail. I would draft up a more formal letter as an attachment, and send it to the Tenant for signature and return. Then I (or my agent on my behalf) would counter-sign it, and send a copy back to the tenant (e-mail, and hard-copy).Drub wrote:Even though we have not signed the 1 pager for the 4 th yr we have had some email exchanges on the draft we put together. So to your point on the validity of producing anything in court, can email exchanges be considered as proof? My knowledge was in the case of property disputes it cannot be. Am I right?
OIC! Yes here is an example where something got lost in the woodwork, and it’s good you pointed that out.Drub wrote:Lastly, landlord is not asking us to leave, we want to leave coz the place has become untenable & we are clueless about where our deposit is. Given we have not signed any document at the end of our 4th yr the LL- new or old- can turn back and say that he won't repay our deposit coz we never signed anything!! Hence the request to him to adjust the pending rent against the deposit so that it's fair to both parties and we leave peacefully on 30 Sep.
Tell me about stress!! What sleepless nights!
And in the meantime start looking for another place and get out ASAP. It sure doesn't sound like you're under any legal obligation to stay put.JR8 wrote:I don’t think I’d pay him any further rent unless he proved he is entitled to receive it. In the absence of which, all you have instead is ‘smoke and mirrors’ of the LLs own making...
Good question. I think you could change the locks and inform the LL (registered mail, receipt advice) that you are ready for the handover at the time/data you may mutually want to agree. Then, if the LL agrees, have a reasonably impartial witness with you when you come down to the apartment. Don't forget to document the condition of the apartment, preferably also with the witness. This is not a risk free approach but I can not think about anything better.Drub wrote:Now our worry is who will take the handover from us!!!
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