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Deferment from NS till 21 years pending renunciation

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vnwlim
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Deferment from NS till 21 years pending renunciation

Postby vnwlim » Sat, 22 Mar 2014 9:22 pm

Hi

I have just received news that my son at 13 has been declined deferment from NS till the age of 21 years.

My son and 2 other daughters were born in UK. They only travel to Singapore for a few weeks in their life so far. I can't see how he can be loyal to Singapore and defend Singapore as he has not live there at all. Just imaging all Singapore Chinese need to serve in China's army in order to call "Chinese"! (Not perfect example, but hope you understand the sentiment).

There is no reason stated for the refusal. Judging from the questions in the form, they want to find out whether he has enjoyed any benefits in Singapore. The answer is no. I wonder the reason for refusal is because we have a HDB flat in Singapore and the rest of the family still holding Singapore IC and passport? We have live in UK since 1991 and already PR in UK, so we have no problem getting UK citizenship and passport if needed.

I would appreciate if anyone can share your experience if your situation is similar to ours and need to know what to do next in particular:

1. Will it be useful if we go back to Singapore and see our MP to ask him/her to help us to write a letter to appeal? Any success story to share?

2. If we apply for Exit Permit, I don't think we are able to come out with $75,000 bond as we are working class people (in order to apply for 2 years or more Exit Permit). Any alternative beside applying 3 months every time? Can we use our HDB flat as security as it worth $200K without mortgage.

3. IF we apply for Exit Permit for him, is there any chance he can get Exit Permit till 21 as it is normal for him to finish university after A level. If he then renounce at 21, do you think the bond will be lose (assuming we can find the money somewhere for the bond)?

4. If the whole family renounce Singapore Citizenship now and sell our HDB flat, it is too late and will it help during appeal?

5. He just turn 13 in February 2014, when is the latest he need to apply Exit Permit without consider late?

Thanks in advance for your feedback and suggestion.
vnw

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PNGMK
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Postby PNGMK » Sun, 23 Mar 2014 11:31 am

vnwlim wrote:Hi

I have just received news that my son at 13 has been declined deferment from NS till the age of 21 years.

My son and 2 other daughters were born in UK. They only travel to Singapore for a few weeks in their life so far. I can't see how he can be loyal to Singapore and defend Singapore as he has not live there at all. Just imaging all Singapore Chinese need to serve in China's army in order to call "Chinese"! (Not perfect example, but hope you understand the sentiment).

There is no reason stated for the refusal. Judging from the questions in the form, they want to find out whether he has enjoyed any benefits in Singapore. The answer is no. I wonder the reason for refusal is because we have a HDB flat in Singapore and the rest of the family still holding Singapore IC and passport? We have live in UK since 1991 and already PR in UK, so we have no problem getting UK citizenship and passport if needed.

I would appreciate if anyone can share your experience if your situation is similar to ours and need to know what to do next in particular:

1. Will it be useful if we go back to Singapore and see our MP to ask him/her to help us to write a letter to appeal? Any success story to share?

2. If we apply for Exit Permit, I don't think we are able to come out with $75,000 bond as we are working class people (in order to apply for 2 years or more Exit Permit). Any alternative beside applying 3 months every time? Can we use our HDB flat as security as it worth $200K without mortgage.

3. IF we apply for Exit Permit for him, is there any chance he can get Exit Permit till 21 as it is normal for him to finish university after A level. If he then renounce at 21, do you think the bond will be lose (assuming we can find the money somewhere for the bond)?

4. If the whole family renounce Singapore Citizenship now and sell our HDB flat, it is too late and will it help during appeal?

5. He just turn 13 in February 2014, when is the latest he need to apply Exit Permit without consider late?

Thanks in advance for your feedback and suggestion.


1. No.
2. Yes - as security on a band bond (FYI If you own a $200,000 flat outright you are not 'working class' - you're middle class).
3. Not sure if bond will be lost. If he obtains a deferment and serves NS there is no reason to loose the bond.
4. Yes. Too late I suspect. You should have done this a long time back. Considering you've been out since 1991 it would have been straight forward to follow the CIMB etc procedures to renounce and get this off your son. MS has some good posts on how to do this - read through them.
5. Not sure.

vnwlim
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Postby vnwlim » Sun, 23 Mar 2014 6:55 pm

Thanks.

Anyone know the criteria in order to qualify for deferment NS till 21?
vnw

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sundaymorningstaple
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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Sun, 23 Mar 2014 7:24 pm

Unless you have fully divested yourselves of your ties to Singapore, it's not likely to happen as you have indicated by your reluctance to renounce in your own right, that you want to keep ties with Singapore. You have screwed up your son's life, royally, in your quest to try to play both sides of the fence. You have a lot to answer for to your son. He will have to do NS. That much is for certain. Secondly, the government will not give anybody a deferment to to go a tertiary institutions after A levels, full stop. Unless they are in the top 10 percent of the cohort and going to a Local University. Foreign university, no way. As you have been in the UK for a long, long time, the fact that you have PR only also lends itself to the thought that you will return to Singapore. You have sent the wrong signals and he is going to pay for it. In fact, I have my doubts that they will even give him an exit permit even with a surety or bond.

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Mad Scientist
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d

Postby Mad Scientist » Mon, 24 Mar 2014 12:32 pm

oops
Last edited by Mad Scientist on Fri, 08 Aug 2014 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Deferment from NS till 21 years pending renunciation

Postby taxico » Mon, 24 Mar 2014 1:39 pm

vnwlim wrote:...I have just received news that my son at 13 has been declined deferment from NS till the age of 21 years...


simply put - your son HAS to serve NS unless you are willing to give up all ties to singapore (as scientist mentioned above).

the government (at this stage of the game and how you've handled it thus far) will not allow your son to renounce before he has served NS. while he may be allowed to START (depending on his age at that time), he cannot complete university prior to serving NS.

short of applying for an alternative citizenship and hope and praying your son never even transits through changi airport ever again for the rest of his life, NS is where all roads will lead.

do not look at it from your perspective, but at how to move forward (barring some major policy changes from the government prior to him serving).

i strongly recommend you start talking to your son about life in singapore, sending him back to your relatives in singapore as soon as he's finished with his A levels to get a feel of life here and to start NS as early as possible and try to time it so that he finishes just before university starts 2 years from date of intake.

NS, in all likelihood, won't kill him. it can be a positive aspect of his life and you're certainly an important person to make it so. failure to serve will certainly result in inconveniencing the rest of his life.

(i also recommend he applies for UK citizenship only after NS...)
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

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Postby Telokkurau » Tue, 15 Jul 2014 5:59 pm

Dear all,

My kids are not even born yet. Just want to be very early and prepared.

Situation:

Father: European on Employment pass for less than 2 years.

Mother: Singaporean citizen (no HDB, bit of cash in CPF, would prefer to keep SG citizenship and just get PR in Europe).

Birth: In Singapore. Public/government hospital. Accept baby bonus. Register birth in SG (think I have to) and with European country's embassy.

Kids: will have dual citizenship: Singaporean by birth and of father's country

Near term events: Leave Singapore for good when kids are 7-8 months old. Use passport of father's country to leave. Live in Europe for good.

Medium term: occasionally visit SG on passport of father's country for holidays or visiting relatives

Long term: Do nothing til age 13. Age 13 contact authorities and apply for deferment pending renunciation of SG citizenship and exit permit. Never collect/apply for SG passport/IC. Let the kids make their own decision when they are 18/21.

Anything I am missing?

Should kids avoid visiting Singapore between age 11-21 (travelling on European country passport)?

THANKS

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taxico
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Postby taxico » Thu, 31 Jul 2014 12:08 am

Telokkurau wrote:Dear all,

My kids are not even born yet. Just want to be very early and prepared.

Situation:

Father: European on Employment pass for less than 2 years.

Mother: Singaporean citizen (no HDB, bit of cash in CPF, would prefer to keep SG citizenship and just get PR in Europe).

Birth: In Singapore. Public/government hospital. Accept baby bonus. Register birth in SG (think I have to) and with European country's embassy.

Kids: will have dual citizenship: Singaporean by birth and of father's country

Near term events: Leave Singapore for good when kids are 7-8 months old. Use passport of father's country to leave. Live in Europe for good.

Medium term: occasionally visit SG on passport of father's country for holidays or visiting relatives

Long term: Do nothing til age 13. Age 13 contact authorities and apply for deferment pending renunciation of SG citizenship and exit permit. Never collect/apply for SG passport/IC. Let the kids make their own decision when they are 18/21.

Anything I am missing?

Should kids avoid visiting Singapore between age 11-21 (travelling on European country passport)?

THANKS


why apply for the baby bonus? (some might ask - why not?)

and why no EU passport for your child?
Aut viam ad caelum inveniam aut faciam

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 31 Jul 2014 6:48 am

As long as you hold Sg citizenship it will not happen. They will be liable for NS regardless unless YOU give up your ties to Singapore. They will be Singaporeans by birth if you deliver here in Singapore. IF you deliver overseas, then it's optional if you take up citizenship for them.

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PNGMK
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Postby PNGMK » Thu, 07 Aug 2014 1:08 am

Mad Scientist wrote:Apply for One Year and 364 days and you would not need to pose any $$ bonds.
Since he turns 13 on Feb, he has 3 months from his birthday to apply for Exit Permit. Apply NOW NOW NOW !!!
You have to renounce your SG citizenship ie and your spouse, children. Meantime stayed outside SG until you have Brit citizenship on hand
DO NOT return to SG for your son until this is sorted
Once sorted, apply for deferment till 21 pending renunciation with copies of family Brit citizenship stamped by Public Notary to Mindef and ICA via snail mail.
Sell your HDB asap . You can withdraw your CPF money once yours and spouse SG renunciation is accepted.

Hold to SG citizenship and you will lose more

Your desire to be loyal to SG but not for your son is a matter of choice but it is not what Gahmen perceive.


MS - Can the exit permit be renewed again and again for 1 year, 364 days?


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