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rajagainstthemachine
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Postby rajagainstthemachine » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 2:14 pm

JR8 wrote:
rajagainstthemachine wrote:Apparently the British did a really bad job of mapping/re-mapping borders, at least this is true for much of India,pakistan,China and Bangladesh and Burma.
There are certain villages on the Indo-Pak bornder where you enter on one side of the house via India and exit the house to Pakistan.
A new world order wouldn't be such a bad Idea after all...


Gandhi forced the Brits out of India, and Gandhi then forced Partition through.

He decided the borders, no one else.

p.s. and if these borders are so universally disliked, why don't these various '''countries''', simply mutually agree to alter them, or scrap them altogether and unify?

Do you think that likely? Are you going to pioneer a 'Unify the entire sub-continent' movement? :wink: Good luck with that!



Yes Gandhi & co forced the Brits out, but then the task of carving out these new countries was entrusted to two people Lord Wavell and Sir Cyril Radcliffe who were given five weeks to decide a border and the fate of 88 million people at that time. The division was done with so much haste and secrecy that the ultimate outcome was chaos, confusion and blood shed.
The Durand Line was similar this time it was the border between British India and Afghanistan and the McMahon Line between China and India.
I just wished the British had stuck along a little longer than 1947 and ensured a cleaner transition.

I wouldn't like a unify the entire subcontinent movement :P
To get there early is on time and showing up on time is late

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ecureilx
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Postby ecureilx » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 3:23 pm

rajagainstthemachine wrote:[......


quoting History is what China is quoting to claim all of the South China sea, i.e the nine dash line ....

history did anybody say?

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Postby Beeroclock » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 3:53 pm

Steve1960 wrote:
JR8 wrote:I'm curious who is funding them. And also, how they intend to maintain their supply lines, when they appear to be surrounded by opponents on all sides.

I haven't read much about it, but it seems a very unusual situation. I can't think of another instance in modern history of a bunch of disparate fanatics attempting to section off swathes of various countries, in order to create their own radical state! Do they have any formal structure within their forces, or are they just a bunch of loonies with clapped out AKs?


I don't know where they get the backing but apparently they are well armed and well trained...................no air support of course which will be a major part of their downfall no doubt.

No idea who funded them up to now but I guess they are stealing pretty much everything as they go now. Robbing banks and taking arms /ammunition etc.

Rumours of Saudi funding, which of course they deny and Western Govt's say no evidence of Govt backing for ISIS.

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Postby JR8 » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 5:15 pm

Beeroclock wrote: Rumours of Saudi funding, which of course they deny and Western Govt's say no evidence of Govt backing for ISIS.


Ironic if they were, as Al Qaida are also Saudi funded, and also fighting for a 'return of the Caliphate'.

It'd be pretty gay two terrorist groups funded by the same people, fighting for the same cause, refusing to join forces.

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Postby ecureilx » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 7:54 pm

JR8 wrote:.

It'd be pretty gay two terrorist groups funded by the same people, fighting for the same cause, refusing to join forces.


just after Pink Dot .... :???: :roll: :wink:

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Postby GSM8 » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 9:44 pm

JR8 wrote:
Beeroclock wrote: Rumours of Saudi funding, which of course they deny and Western Govt's say no evidence of Govt backing for ISIS.


Ironic if they were, as Al Qaida are also Saudi funded, and also fighting for a 'return of the Caliphate'.

It'd be pretty gay two terrorist groups funded by the same people, fighting for the same cause, refusing to join forces.

Divide and rule

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Postby PNGMK » Wed, 02 Jul 2014 11:50 pm

JR8 wrote:
PNGMK wrote: The borders are complete nonsense drawn up by colonial powers anyways.


So you'll be at the front of the queue to turn in your 'colonial powers' passport?


If you grew up on an island split in three, an island with a single distinct cultural grouping along all sides, split between Germany, G.B. and Holland, you'd probably feel that borders are really nonsense when they've been decided by remote colonial idiots.

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Postby zzm9980 » Thu, 03 Jul 2014 12:01 am

JR8 wrote:
zzm9980 wrote: They meant something to the British and French interests in ~1919. They meant nothing to the millions living there for the past thousands of years. "Iraq", "Syria", "Jordan", etc never existed before then. Modern connectivity and technology has made society less apt to forget and accept this like they may have in the past.


Let them throw down the barbed wire, and passport control booths manned by gruff moustached uncles, and unite as one, as you (suggest) they were a mere century ago. 'Ok, roll up, roll up, which is the first one of yer that wants to volunteer to drop all your borders, come on don't be shy!!'


Pick an empire...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Asia
---
'The world's earliest civilizations developed in Western Asia. For most of the last three millennia, the region has been united under one or two powerful states; each one succeeding the last, and at times, eastern and western based polities. The main states in this regard were the Assyrian Empire, the Babylonian Empire, the Achaemenid Empire, Ancient Israel, the Kingdom of Armenia, the Seleucid Empire, the Parthian Empire, the Roman Empire, the Sassanid Empire, the Byzantine Empire, the Umayyad Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate, the Safavid Empire, the Afsharid Empire, and the Ottoman Empire.'

With so much history, and so many competitors, it's difficult to know who has the greatest retrospective rights to take over the region again eh?

Me? I'm torn between the Italians and the Jews.


No one needs to "take over" the region. Let it break down into whatever enclaves they want. Kurds want a homeland, let them have it. Sunnis and Shia's will kill each other forever, so let them have their own little chunks of sand.

No one at all outside the middle east would give a shit if it weren't for god putting all of 'Murica's oil under that sand. :cool:

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Postby JR8 » Thu, 03 Jul 2014 9:25 am

PNGMK wrote: If you grew up on an island split in three, an island with a single distinct cultural grouping along all sides, split between Germany, G.B. and Holland, you'd probably feel that borders are really nonsense when they've been decided by remote colonial idiots.


A place such as England, and the island of Great Britain with Scotland at one end and Wales to one side. All three having distinct cultures.

I've never thought or felt much about the borders. Scotland and Wales are not places I visit very often. When I drive through one of the borders I think 'Oh now we're in [A or B], wow it's been a long time', but little more than that.

Remote cultural idiots, [there there PNG, pour yourself a big one and take a deep breath, it'll be ok, really it will hehehe... ]. Well as for Scotland I suppose if you wanted to do some finger-pointing you'd put the Romans on the hook, what with Hadrian's Wall ('Britain's Partition'?). Wales, I haven't a clue, some ghastly long-haired swivel-eyed unwashed tribe I expect, but no one really cares about Wales (except the Welsh). [X-ref for American friends: Wales is rather like visiting the deep southern Bayou, and the Welsh are like the denizens of the said deep bayou, 'not like us'. Just Wales has hills and a few mountains rather than swamps, and it's cold and rains a lot. But I suspect a sense of isolation, an imagined grievance at having somehow lost out, and the general hatred of 'others' probably carries over].

So I find there is nothing to concern me about such borders, and how they came about. What happened happened, and for a reason that likely appeared the most appropriate one at the time (Occam's Razor, and all that). Looking back now and chest-beating about it, is fodder for nationalist politicians and fools who welcome eating themselves up inside with things that they will never change.

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Postby Steve1960 » Thu, 03 Jul 2014 9:33 am

That is so funny and reminds me of a business trip I took to 'the Valleys' in South Wales many years ago.

A friend of mine told me that if I get lost I should not stop and ask for directions just keep driving. When I inquired why he said 'you will be wearing a suit, driving a BMW and talking with an English accent...............do not get out of the car'!!!

:shock:


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