Skill and attitude are 2 different things. Lets say company needs a Java developer. They try finding a local who has work experience of 5 years in Java. Cannot find. Get a person from India, very easy to find. The Indian is very good in Java and perform the job well. However, just because he asks stupid questions on this forum, are you going to discredit his Java skills and want him to be sent home? What does the company who need a Java developer do?x9200 wrote:It is not only the local pool. I was always amazed reading on this very forum various entry posts by some so called foreign talents. Coming in on a decent package and not able to find simplest information by themselves. These are the people who should never be allowed to work here. I have not seen any of them around for a while. Good, what the gov does seems to work.
Big YES. Attitude at work is often even more important than skills. This is all about quality and quality is what Singapore needs most. They don't need lousy workers and lazy opportunists.Wd40 wrote:However, just because he asks stupid questions on this forum, are you going to discredit his Java skills and want him to be sent home? What does the company who need a Java developer do?
Its all demand and supply isn't it? If you are willing to pay 6k to an Asian and don't get quality, what do you do? You try bringing in someone from Europe, Australia or US and pay them 10k if you have the budget, if not be happy with the Asian, no?x9200 wrote:Big YES. Attitude at work is often even more important than skills. This is all about quality and quality is what Singapore needs most. They don't need lousy workers and lazy opportunists.Wd40 wrote:However, just because he asks stupid questions on this forum, are you going to discredit his Java skills and want him to be sent home? What does the company who need a Java developer do?
Of course we are talking about average Joes.
I've never ever found this "very easy to find" person from India. Care to show me one?Wd40 wrote:Skill and attitude are 2 different things. Lets say company needs a Java developer. They try finding a local who has work experience of 5 years in Java. Cannot find. Get a person from India, very easy to find. The Indian is very good in Java and perform the job well. However, just because he asks stupid questions on this forum, are you going to discredit his Java skills and want him to be sent home? What does the company who need a Java developer do?x9200 wrote:It is not only the local pool. I was always amazed reading on this very forum various entry posts by some so called foreign talents. Coming in on a decent package and not able to find simplest information by themselves. These are the people who should never be allowed to work here. I have not seen any of them around for a while. Good, what the gov does seems to work.
^^^ I'm with x9200 on this.x9200 wrote:Big YES. Attitude at work is often even more important than skills. This is all about quality and quality is what Singapore needs most. They don't need lousy workers and lazy opportunists.Wd40 wrote:However, just because he asks stupid questions on this forum, are you going to discredit his Java skills and want him to be sent home? What does the company who need a Java developer do?
Of course we are talking about average Joes.
For majority of the companies in Singapore it is indeed like that. That's why the service quality is here so poor. For the companies that care about quality (along side with the profit) they may have pending vacancies for long months.Wd40 wrote:Its all demand and supply isn't it? If you are willing to pay 6k to an Asian and don't get quality, what do you do? You try bringing in someone from Europe, Australia or US and pay them 10k if you have the budget, if not be happy with the Asian, no?x9200 wrote:Big YES. Attitude at work is often even more important than skills. This is all about quality and quality is what Singapore needs most. They don't need lousy workers and lazy opportunists.Wd40 wrote:However, just because he asks stupid questions on this forum, are you going to discredit his Java skills and want him to be sent home? What does the company who need a Java developer do?
Of course we are talking about average Joes.
Or are you still under the impression that you can get great quality locals with the skills and the attitude for the low salary and the employers for some mysterious reasons love to hire foreigners who cant communicate well on forums. Employers don't seem to have a problem, then what is the problem?
x9200 wrote:Big YES. Attitude at work is often even more important than skills. This is all about quality and quality is what Singapore needs most. They don't need lousy workers and lazy opportunists.Wd40 wrote:However, just because he asks stupid questions on this forum, are you going to discredit his Java skills and want him to be sent home? What does the company who need a Java developer do?
Of course we are talking about average Joes.
opinionatedman wrote:
Well, GOD bless you and your company, if that is what you look to hire a person.
Searching forums, for answers might just need some time for a person, hence quick fire shooting of questions, and getting it resolved might just be the way out of the busy schedule.
It generally take a lot longer to find an answer on a forum than it does using google. Where do you think most of our answers come from? From what I've seen of busy schedules it is because of eating at their desks and playing games on the PC and coming in late and taking long lunch hours.
Thank goodness that most companies dont judge people on their web browsing skills at workplaces, but their core competencies.
If most here were judged solely on their core competencies, staff strengths would go down by probably 30% immediately. Sadly, lots of contracts require a finite number of manpower (body count) regardless of whether or not the job could/can be handled by less. And usually there are fines in place for the vendor if they are short of manpower - what to do? Hire warm bodies. The system in place breeds incompetency.
x9200 wrote:Big YES. Attitude at work is often even more important than skills. This is all about quality and quality is what Singapore needs most. They don't need lousy workers and lazy opportunists.Wd40 wrote:However, just because he asks stupid questions on this forum, are you going to discredit his Java skills and want him to be sent home? What does the company who need a Java developer do?
Of course we are talking about average Joes.
Where did I say the attitude is what only matters?midlet2013 wrote:Once a person can do the job well, Attitude and Team Work matters more than anything else. But Attitude and No Skill leads to pity. But Attitude matters only once the basic skills are in place.
If Attitude were the only thing that mattered, then Job Desc would be One Liners.
x9200 wrote:Big YES. Attitude at work is often even more important than skills. This is all about quality and quality is what Singapore needs most. They don't need lousy workers and lazy opportunists.Wd40 wrote:However, just because he asks stupid questions on this forum, are you going to discredit his Java skills and want him to be sent home? What does the company who need a Java developer do?
Of course we are talking about average Joes.
x9200 wrote:Where did I say the attitude is what only matters?midlet2013 wrote:Once a person can do the job well, Attitude and Team Work matters more than anything else. But Attitude and No Skill leads to pity. But Attitude matters only once the basic skills are in place.
If Attitude were the only thing that mattered, then Job Desc would be One Liners.
x9200 wrote: Big YES. Attitude at work is often even more important than skills. This is all about quality and quality is what Singapore needs most. They don't need lousy workers and lazy opportunists.
Of course we are talking about average Joes.
But you know, the skills if not perfect can be perfected (with a right attitude). No way the attitude can be changed that easily. In a healthy working environment people with wrong attitude, regardless their skills, are typically causing in long ran more damage than benefits.
I really think the problem with my opponents in this thread is that they simply don't understand what is a quality product/service. Do the job as being micromanaged by a direct supervisor, leave at 5-6pm regardless anything (except if boss is not happy), don't care about anything but your salary, do the job so the boss thinks they do a good job, rather than really doing a good job.
Yes, but as I said, I was talking about an average Joe for a given job opportunity so this average guy is just like many other Joes around. It is not like he's applying for a job where some true talents are expected. If somebody is sort of special he can afford to have some problems with attitude but then typically this is the job that looks for him, not the other way around.midlet2013 wrote:Although to say that skills can be learnt is not always true. There are some skills that cannot be learnt just thru slogging or spending time.
There you go....so you finally are agreing with me to some extent.x9200 wrote:Where did I say the attitude is what only matters?midlet2013 wrote:Once a person can do the job well, Attitude and Team Work matters more than anything else. But Attitude and No Skill leads to pity. But Attitude matters only once the basic skills are in place.
If Attitude were the only thing that mattered, then Job Desc would be One Liners.
x9200 wrote: Big YES. Attitude at work is often even more important than skills. This is all about quality and quality is what Singapore needs most. They don't need lousy workers and lazy opportunists.
Of course we are talking about average Joes.
But you know, the skills if not perfect can be perfected (with a right attitude). No way the attitude can be changed that easily. In a healthy working environment people with wrong attitude, regardless their skills, are typically causing in long ran more damage than benefits.
I really think the problem with my opponents in this thread is that they simply don't understand what is a quality product/service. Do the job as being micromanaged by a direct supervisor, leave at 5-6pm regardless anything (except if boss is not happy), don't care about anything but your salary, do the job so the boss thinks they do a good job, rather than really doing a good job.
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