Your company should have been aware that if the EP is obtained by a Singapore company, then you are employed by that company, and therefore you must pay Singapore income tax.symbioticInTheory wrote:Story goes something like this:
In 2012 I arranged with my employer that I could work in Singapore remotely (due to personal reasons). Part of the deal was that my income would still be getting paid into an Australian bank account, which includes paying taxes in Australia, and that I would organise an EP with the company's Singapore branch which I was to visit a couple of days per week (even though there was no direct relationship to my department).
Last September I moved back to Australia and shortly thereafter resigned and accepted a job elsewhere (Europe).
Now last month I received an email from the office in Singapore stating that I have some urgent mail from the IRAS.
I finally receive the mail in the post here. They are demanding that I pay $8000 of tax for the previous year that I lived in Singapore, and not only that , there is a late fee of some amount applied on top of this amount accompanied with a stern warning that I will not be able to leave the country and/or that they might take legal action.
There is no way I will pay this even if I did just have this money lying around especially considering I payed over 40% of tax in Australia that year. Now my ex-employer made it clear previously that they will not deal with any tax issues so I cannot go to them for advice (even if I wanted to).
So I know it is never wise to burn your bridges, but in reality I hated Singapore and even before this tax issue occurred vowed never to return.
I'm also a dual passport holder so if I ever really need to return back there I could just use my alternate passport.
Now the main reason for posting this is that I'm just curious to hear different opinions on this matter, and if anyone else has done something similar?
Last I checked, dual citizenship is not allowed by SG.symbioticInTheory wrote:I'm also a dual passport holder so if I ever really need to return back there I could just use my alternate passport.
You could try keep your vow.symbioticInTheory wrote:So I know it is never wise to burn your bridges, but in reality I hated Singapore and even before this tax issue occurred vowed never to return.
If you don't want to keep your vow and want to leave the door open for visiting SG again without any worry, then follow SE's advice.Strong Eagle wrote:You would have gotten your Singapore tax deducted from your AU tax and the whole thing would be a wash. Maybe you can still do this with an amended return.
I think you should pay the taxes as they are legally due, and especially since you should be able to get foreign tax credits deducted from your AU tax.
symbioticInTheory wrote:Story goes something like this:
In 2012 I arranged with my employer that I could work in Singapore remotely (due to personal reasons). Part of the deal was that my income would still be getting paid into an Australian bank account, which includes paying taxes in Australia, and that I would organise an EP with the company's Singapore branch which I was to visit a couple of days per week (even though there was no direct relationship to my department).
Last September I moved back to Australia and shortly thereafter resigned and accepted a job elsewhere (Europe).
Now last month I received an email from the office in Singapore stating that I have some urgent mail from the IRAS.
I finally receive the mail in the post here. They are demanding that I pay $8000 of tax for the previous year that I lived in Singapore, and not only that , there is a late fee of some amount applied on top of this amount accompanied with a stern warning that I will not be able to leave the country and/or that they might take legal action.
There is no way I will pay this even if I did just have this money lying around especially considering I payed over 40% of tax in Australia that year. Now my ex-employer made it clear previously that they will not deal with any tax issues so I cannot go to them for advice (even if I wanted to).
So I know it is never wise to burn your bridges, but in reality I hated Singapore and even before this tax issue occurred vowed never to return.
I'm also a dual passport holder so if I ever really need to return back there I could just use my alternate passport.
Now the main reason for posting this is that I'm just curious to hear different opinions on this matter, and if anyone else has done something similar?
Due to the fact that I strongly requested (with threats of resignation) that the company transfer me there, the employer made it clear that they will not deal will any paper work inc. tax issues. Annoyingly enough I was in a position to obtain a spouse visa instead of the EP but I wanted to make my employer happy and at least show my face in the office there (which I only did once).Strong Eagle wrote: It sounds like the HR departments of your company in both Australia and Singapore have/had their heads up their asses because this isn't any secret stuff. The other thing I can't figure out is why they didn't just follow AU rules with respect to payment of foreign income and income taxes. You would have gotten your Singapore tax deducted from your AU tax and the whole thing would be a wash. Maybe you can still do this with an amended return.
I think you should pay the taxes as they are legally due, and especially since you should be able to get foreign tax credits deducted from your AU tax.
And if I may critically add with this edit: Why the hell didn't you do your homework on this subject before diving in? Most expats take the time to become acutely aware of the tax consequences of their actions.
If that is the case then I broke another law. They are not aware of my other nationality, which includes passport details etc.maneo wrote:Last I checked, dual citizenship is not allowed by SG.symbioticInTheory wrote:I'm also a dual passport holder so if I ever really need to return back there I could just use my alternate passport.
Not sure what you are assuming about re-entering (if you ever really need to) using your alternate passport.
ICA makes good use of their computers.
Err... no?nakatago wrote:I got a feeling OP would come back to delete his post.
The income mentioned in the EP was what I said it was, that is all. They did not even check whether that was correct or not. In fact I got a raise during this period and the amount they are taxing me on is quite a bit less than what I earned during that period.Wd40 wrote:If you and your employer agreed that your salary will be paid to Australian account, then what income was mentioned in your EP application? An EP is given only to people who work and are paid in Singapore.
I think there is a major disconnect b/w your Singapore HR and your Australian HR. Your Singapore HR have probably filed returns stating that your income was paid to you for services originating in Singapore. Which is why IRAS sent you the tax bill.
As I said above, I was able to get a ruling from the ATO in regards to whether they will consider me a non-resident for tax purposes but they explicitly stated that this will only be valid for income earned outside of Australia.PNGMK wrote:What I don't understand is why you didn't make yourself non tax resident in Australia for the duration of that contract and enjoy the much lower Singapore tax rates?
As others have said there is a Dual Tax Agreement between Australia and Singapore.
You'll need some help but in essence the total amount of tax paid for that period should not exceed either countries assessment - not the sum of the assessments (which is your current situation). You should be able to reduce your Australian income tax by the amount paid or owing to IRAS. You may need a CPA to help work this out and refile with the ATO.
If you don't pay the IRAS there is a reasonable possibility that they will take court action, obtain a judgement and then engage an Australian debt collector to go after you (or more likely sell the debt off to one of the many legal loansharks in Australia). As the debt is proven in court this will be enforceable even in Australia and you life will be miserable for at least 7 years. What this means though is that you have had a negative court assessment against you! This will end up appearing on credit reports, credit bureaus - you will risk obtaining loans in the future.
What amazes me is that people like you can actually get a job.symbioticInTheory wrote:Thanks for the replies guys.
Due to the fact that I strongly requested (with threats of resignation) that the company transfer me there, the employer made it clear that they will not deal will any paper work inc. tax issues. Annoyingly enough I was in a position to obtain a spouse visa instead of the EP but I wanted to make my employer happy and at least show my face in the office there (which I only did once).Strong Eagle wrote: It sounds like the HR departments of your company in both Australia and Singapore have/had their heads up their asses because this isn't any secret stuff. The other thing I can't figure out is why they didn't just follow AU rules with respect to payment of foreign income and income taxes. You would have gotten your Singapore tax deducted from your AU tax and the whole thing would be a wash. Maybe you can still do this with an amended return.
I think you should pay the taxes as they are legally due, and especially since you should be able to get foreign tax credits deducted from your AU tax.
And if I may critically add with this edit: Why the hell didn't you do your homework on this subject before diving in? Most expats take the time to become acutely aware of the tax consequences of their actions.
I spent hours researching this issue beforehand and managed to get a tax ruling in Australia stating something along the lines of "You will not be taxed on any income earned outside of Australia..." which was pretty useless in my case since my income was still being paid by my Aus. employer into an Australian bank account.
I did consider amending my tax return but the fact is I do not even have the $8k readily available, and I do not trust the ATO enough that they will offset my tax by this amount (i.e. I may never see that money again).
If that is the case then I broke another law. They are not aware of my other nationality, which includes passport details etc.maneo wrote:Last I checked, dual citizenship is not allowed by SG.symbioticInTheory wrote:I'm also a dual passport holder so if I ever really need to return back there I could just use my alternate passport.
Not sure what you are assuming about re-entering (if you ever really need to) using your alternate passport.
ICA makes good use of their computers.
Trust me when I say this, I will never willingly get an EP there again, hell even a tourist visa.
Err... no?nakatago wrote:I got a feeling OP would come back to delete his post.
The income mentioned in the EP was what I said it was, that is all. They did not even check whether that was correct or not. In fact I got a raise during this period and the amount they are taxing me on is quite a bit less than what I earned during that period.Wd40 wrote:If you and your employer agreed that your salary will be paid to Australian account, then what income was mentioned in your EP application? An EP is given only to people who work and are paid in Singapore.
I think there is a major disconnect b/w your Singapore HR and your Australian HR. Your Singapore HR have probably filed returns stating that your income was paid to you for services originating in Singapore. Which is why IRAS sent you the tax bill.
As I said above, I was able to get a ruling from the ATO in regards to whether they will consider me a non-resident for tax purposes but they explicitly stated that this will only be valid for income earned outside of Australia.PNGMK wrote:What I don't understand is why you didn't make yourself non tax resident in Australia for the duration of that contract and enjoy the much lower Singapore tax rates?
As others have said there is a Dual Tax Agreement between Australia and Singapore.
You'll need some help but in essence the total amount of tax paid for that period should not exceed either countries assessment - not the sum of the assessments (which is your current situation). You should be able to reduce your Australian income tax by the amount paid or owing to IRAS. You may need a CPA to help work this out and refile with the ATO.
If you don't pay the IRAS there is a reasonable possibility that they will take court action, obtain a judgement and then engage an Australian debt collector to go after you (or more likely sell the debt off to one of the many legal loansharks in Australia). As the debt is proven in court this will be enforceable even in Australia and you life will be miserable for at least 7 years. What this means though is that you have had a negative court assessment against you! This will end up appearing on credit reports, credit bureaus - you will risk obtaining loans in the future.
In regards to the court action, I very much doubt that this will be the case considering this will probably be time consuming and costly. Even considering this I no longer live in Australia and have no valuable assets there so this will not really do them much good anyhow.
As stated a couple of times the only other option I have is to amend my tax assessment for that year in Australia and apply for a tax offset. In fact this is really only possible now anyway because I actually have the paperwork from IRAS. But I do not believe that I will ever see this money again if I do that. They may question the assessment now especially considering I am not employed in Australia anymore (so not paying tax in Aust. from this year onwards).
if it says income *earned* outside of Australia, then actually that is useful not useless I would think. You need to check carefully, but I'd interpret the income as earned in Singapore, even though it was received/paid into an Australian bank account. Don't confuse where income earned vs where money received.I spent hours researching this issue beforehand and managed to get a tax ruling in Australia stating something along the lines of "You will not be taxed on any income earned outside of Australia..." which was pretty useless in my case since my income was still being paid by my Aus. employer into an Australian bank account.
I don't understand why you're so skeptical of getting money back from ATO. It's quite straightforward I would think, if you can prove you have subsequently paid income tax to Singapore on the same income declared in your Australian tax return, then it should be a straightforward credit under the double tax treaty. I don't think ATO can question Singapore has the first right to extract tax as the income was earned while working in Singapore, and ATO will collect the balance up to the Australian tax scale.As stated a couple of times the only other option I have is to amend my tax assessment for that year in Australia and apply for a tax offset. In fact this is really only possible now anyway because I actually have the paperwork from IRAS. But I do not believe that I will ever see this money again if I do that. They may question the assessment now especially considering I am not employed in Australia anymore (so not paying tax in Aust. from this year onwards).
No need to get personal.PNGMK wrote:What amazes me is that people like you can actually get a job.
Secondly... the judgement will be made available for worldwide debt collection.
WE've had plenty of people on this forum try to run away from CC debt in Singapore to only discover it messes up their credit worldwide.
Everything is networked now.
I will have to try and find the document but as memory serves me, it said exactly that, "income earned" outside of Australia. I interpreted this as meaning an income from a non-Australian source. I believe I was lucky in regards to getting this ruling because I previously worked in Jakarta, Indonesia under a similar term which I made mention of.Beeroclock wrote:It seems important to know, what exactly did your ATO ruling say ...
if it says income *earned* outside of Australia, then actually that is useful not useless I would think. You need to check carefully, but I'd interpret the income as earned in Singapore, even though it was received/paid into an Australian bank account. Don't confuse where income earned vs where money received.I spent hours researching this issue beforehand and managed to get a tax ruling in Australia stating something along the lines of "You will not be taxed on any income earned outside of Australia..." which was pretty useless in my case since my income was still being paid by my Aus. employer into an Australian bank account.
As I said earlier, I'm quite surprised though if ATO gave you a non resident status based on the situation as you described, interesting!
I don't understand why you're so skeptical of getting money back from ATO. It's quite straightforward I would think, if you can prove you have subsequently paid income tax to Singapore on the same income declared in your Australian tax return, then it should be a straightforward credit under the double tax treaty. I don't think ATO can question Singapore has the first right to extract tax as the income was earned while working in Singapore, and ATO will collect the balance up to the Australian tax scale.As stated a couple of times the only other option I have is to amend my tax assessment for that year in Australia and apply for a tax offset. In fact this is really only possible now anyway because I actually have the paperwork from IRAS. But I do not believe that I will ever see this money again if I do that. They may question the assessment now especially considering I am not employed in Australia anymore (so not paying tax in Aust. from this year onwards).
However, if you are thinking of substantially amending your tax position (i.e. change from resident to non-resident) then yes, that might well trigger some further questions or an audit.
I can tell you this; I work for the one of the world's largest engineering firms and your complete lack of personal integrity in this matter would have you fired in a heartbeat REGARDLESS of your so called software skill, even though you may consider this a 'personal' matter it's not. It reflects grossly on your values as an individial and even worse on how you view your place in society. You need to get your head around this mate; your integrity is on the line here and this is a fork in the path of your life.symbioticInTheory wrote:No need to get personal.PNGMK wrote:What amazes me is that people like you can actually get a job.
Secondly... the judgement will be made available for worldwide debt collection.
WE've had plenty of people on this forum try to run away from CC debt in Singapore to only discover it messes up their credit worldwide.
Everything is networked now.
How does my decision to evade tax have anything to do with my technical competence as a software engineer. I have been a valuable asset to every company I have been part of. Let's just say I am now employed for a very well known IT company in a country which is not in a tax treaty with Singapore and where my bank accounts are secure
You're forgetting Singapore have no knowledge of my dual citizenship and are not even aware that I have left the country.
Strong Eagle has said the same in his earlier post. Where you earn the income is different from where you are paid/receive the money.symbioticInTheory wrote:I will have to try and find the document but as memory serves me, it said exactly that, "income earned" outside of Australia. I interpreted this as meaning an income from a non-Australian source. I believe I was lucky in regards to getting this ruling because I previously worked in Jakarta, Indonesia under a similar term which I made mention of.Beeroclock wrote:It seems important to know, what exactly did your ATO ruling say ...
if it says income *earned* outside of Australia, then actually that is useful not useless I would think. You need to check carefully, but I'd interpret the income as earned in Singapore, even though it was received/paid into an Australian bank account. Don't confuse where income earned vs where money received.I spent hours researching this issue beforehand and managed to get a tax ruling in Australia stating something along the lines of "You will not be taxed on any income earned outside of Australia..." which was pretty useless in my case since my income was still being paid by my Aus. employer into an Australian bank account.
As I said earlier, I'm quite surprised though if ATO gave you a non resident status based on the situation as you described, interesting!
I don't understand why you're so skeptical of getting money back from ATO. It's quite straightforward I would think, if you can prove you have subsequently paid income tax to Singapore on the same income declared in your Australian tax return, then it should be a straightforward credit under the double tax treaty. I don't think ATO can question Singapore has the first right to extract tax as the income was earned while working in Singapore, and ATO will collect the balance up to the Australian tax scale.As stated a couple of times the only other option I have is to amend my tax assessment for that year in Australia and apply for a tax offset. In fact this is really only possible now anyway because I actually have the paperwork from IRAS. But I do not believe that I will ever see this money again if I do that. They may question the assessment now especially considering I am not employed in Australia anymore (so not paying tax in Aust. from this year onwards).
However, if you are thinking of substantially amending your tax position (i.e. change from resident to non-resident) then yes, that might well trigger some further questions or an audit.
If what you say is true, then I could have stated this in my previous tax assessment and possibly have had the benefit of not paying any tax in Australia. Do you think this would still be possible? I was trying to do the right thing by the book at least as far as Australia is concerned (because I actually want to continue to live there in the future).
You do give me some hope that ATO will indeed refund me the tax paid in Singapore.
My only issue is that I have left Australia and declared myself a non-resident and as I stated earlier am no longer employed by an Australian company. I will call ATO this week to determine if amending my assessment will not cause further headaches.
I misread your post hence the edit: Well that makes your company extremely "special" then, maybe they possess mind reading devices. I highly doubt that my personal opinions/views on such things would be that readily detectable considering that only close friends/family are even aware about my opinions on matters such as evading tax (and the fact that I am posting anonymously using a dud email address kind of confirms this).PNGMK wrote:I can tell you this; I work for the one of the world's largest engineering firms and your complete lack of personal integrity in this matter would have you fired in a heartbeat REGARDLESS of your so called software skill, even though you may consider this a 'personal' matter it's not. It reflects grossly on your values as an individial and even worse on how you view your place in society. You need to get your head around this mate; your integrity is on the line here and this is a fork in the path of your life.symbioticInTheory wrote:No need to get personal.PNGMK wrote:What amazes me is that people like you can actually get a job.
Secondly... the judgement will be made available for worldwide debt collection.
WE've had plenty of people on this forum try to run away from CC debt in Singapore to only discover it messes up their credit worldwide.
Everything is networked now.
How does my decision to evade tax have anything to do with my technical competence as a software engineer. I have been a valuable asset to every company I have been part of. Let's just say I am now employed for a very well known IT company in a country which is not in a tax treaty with Singapore and where my bank accounts are secure
You're forgetting Singapore have no knowledge of my dual citizenship and are not even aware that I have left the country.
(And I laugh that a so called s/w engineer cannot afford a $8k bill. That's about one weeks wage for the better ones that I know).
First of all who made you the judge, you have no right to make comments on my life, and I've done far worse (but I suppose that is a matter of opinion) than refusing to pay tax in a country that I dislike completely, and will never return back to. What's the problem? I spent my money in Singapore, and if I had earned money there I would have no issues paying tax. I do however have an issue in paying tax twice. I also have a problem with being taken advantage of because it is obvious that I have money.You need to get your head around this mate; your integrity is on the line here and this is a fork in the path of your life.
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