Moving to Singapore - Long term plans

[insingapore2014]

<dELETED>

[Beeroclock]

I'd say 150k is good. Everyone talks monthly here, that's 12.5 k or around 11k after tax. The two big costs are accommodation and travel, so it depends a lot if you want condo plus car, that could be 5 + 2k, leaving you 4k for living , spending, saving... It should work. However if you opt for Hdb rental plus mrt/ taxi it's maybe 2.5 + 1k, leaving 7.5k which should allow you to live very well and or save considerably. I'll leave others to comment re the immigration and other aspects.

[insingapore2014]

Thank you. A couple of questions:

1. What is the difference between HDB and condo? Is it the size, quality or location that drives the difference? Is it easy to find HDB apartments? I do not care about pool, gym etc. facility, but the quality of the house itself matters.
2. Is car necessary? Do people who can afford it generally go for it? I've heard public transport is too good in SG.
3. What kind of interest do banks give on deposits?

Also, on salary, I am wondering if I am getting the best deal. I worked with this company before and did well. I do have a good job in India as Rs. 50 lac is considered quite good here. I am only moving to make my life better, assuming SG doesn't have the same problems as India. I am wondering what would be a Rs. 50 lac equal to in SGD, given the difference in cost of living. What would a Sr. Manager in a good company generally get?

[zzm9980]

Do you have kids? Will they attend International School? If yes, that's expensive.

Browse property sites and get an idea of your monthly rent. It varies wieldy. Some people are very happy in a 2 bedroom condo that costs under $4k/month, others won't be content with anything less than a landed house that goes for $12-20k/month (usually these ones also have three kids in international school). You can see why the arguments about which salaries are acceptable vary widely.


While you may be allowed to bring our parents on LTVP, keep in mind there is a backlash against foreigners (indians primarily among them). One of the main reasons for THAT is the foreigners bringing their entire families along with them. If you get that LTVP approved, expect a difficult time if you ever apply for PR later.

[bgd]

1. What is the difference between HDB and condo? Is it the size, quality or location that drives the difference? Is it easy to find HDB apartments? I do not care about pool, gym etc. facility, but the quality of the house itself matters.
2. Is car necessary? Do people who can afford it generally go for it? I've heard public transport is too good in SG.
3. What kind of interest do banks give on deposits?

1. Mainly facilities. Like condos quality varies. Low stud height and no balcony seems to me to be the main difference. Think it’s reasonably easy to find HDBs to rent but there can be some strange rules, like keeping 1 room locked to get around renting restrictions.
2. No, especially if you don’t have kids. Public transport is really very good here. Bicycle or motorbike is a much cheaper option if you really need your own transport.
3. Very low – check their websites.

[insingapore2014]

Do you have kids? Will they attend International School? If yes, that's expensive.

Browse property sites and get an idea of your monthly rent. It varies wieldy. Some people are very happy in a 2 bedroom condo that costs under $4k/month, others won't be content with anything less than a landed house that goes for $12-20k/month (usually these ones also have three kids in international school). You can see why the arguments about which salaries are acceptable vary widely.


While you may be allowed to bring our parents on LTVP, keep in mind there is a backlash against foreigners (indians primarily among them). One of the main reasons for THAT is the foreigners bringing their entire families along with them. If you get that LTVP approved, expect a difficult time if you ever apply for PR later.

Thank you! I don't have kids yet. But would like to have a 3 bed apartment as I am expecting my parents and my brother (who's studying in SG) to move in with me.

I did have opportunities to settle down in US and Europe, but I did not take those because I cannot leave my parents alone in India. There is no social or government support for old people in India and life is difficult alone. That's the reason why most Indians want to bring in their entire family.
Do locals treat Indians differently because of this backlash?

[Strong Eagle]

Do you have kids? Will they attend International School? If yes, that's expensive.

Browse property sites and get an idea of your monthly rent. It varies wieldy. Some people are very happy in a 2 bedroom condo that costs under $4k/month, others won't be content with anything less than a landed house that goes for $12-20k/month (usually these ones also have three kids in international school). You can see why the arguments about which salaries are acceptable vary widely.


While you may be allowed to bring our parents on LTVP, keep in mind there is a backlash against foreigners (indians primarily among them). One of the main reasons for THAT is the foreigners bringing their entire families along with them. If you get that LTVP approved, expect a difficult time if you ever apply for PR later.

Thank you! I don't have kids yet. But would like to have a 3 bed apartment as I am expecting my parents and my brother (who's studying in SG) to move in with me.

I did have opportunities to settle down in US and Europe, but I did not take those because I cannot leave my parents alone in India. There is no social or government support for old people in India and life is difficult alone. That's the reason why most Indians want to bring in their entire family.
Do locals treat Indians differently because of this backlash?

You are not going to be able to bring your entire family. Too many people without means of support.

[insingapore2014]

Do you have kids? Will they attend International School? If yes, that's expensive.

Browse property sites and get an idea of your monthly rent. It varies wieldy. Some people are very happy in a 2 bedroom condo that costs under $4k/month, others won't be content with anything less than a landed house that goes for $12-20k/month (usually these ones also have three kids in international school). You can see why the arguments about which salaries are acceptable vary widely.


While you may be allowed to bring our parents on LTVP, keep in mind there is a backlash against foreigners (indians primarily among them). One of the main reasons for THAT is the foreigners bringing their entire families along with them. If you get that LTVP approved, expect a difficult time if you ever apply for PR later.

Thank you! I don't have kids yet. But would like to have a 3 bed apartment as I am expecting my parents and my brother (who's studying in SG) to move in with me.

I did have opportunities to settle down in US and Europe, but I did not take those because I cannot leave my parents alone in India. There is no social or government support for old people in India and life is difficult alone. That's the reason why most Indians want to bring in their entire family.
Do locals treat Indians differently because of this backlash?

You are not going to be able to bring your entire family. Too many people without means of support.

Entire family only means my mom, dad and my wife. My wife is very well qualified and should be able to get a good job in due course. My brother is already there, doing his MBA.

[zzm9980]

Do locals treat Indians differently because of this backlash?

Yes. Locals want foreigners who will integrate, not segregate. The view in Singapore is that India Indians (as opposed to Indians from Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, of which quite a few are here) do not integrate well, and even tend to look down on the Indians here. Your own first post gave a hint that integration isn't on top of your mind: Any insights on 'life in Singapore" for Indian families


Edit: and off the main topic, but to address a point in your first post:

For example, in California, you know $150K is a very good salary, $100K is pretty good, $80K is just enough, with $60K you can survive.

Add 50% all of those numbers if you're talking about the Bay Area (and for LA, we'll just say 'west of the 405', even though probably a lot east of the 405 too) and not having a 60 minute+ commute each way.

[zzm9980]

Thank you! I don't have kids yet. But would like to have a 3 bed apartment as I am expecting my parents and my brother (who's studying in SG) to move in with me.

I did have opportunities to settle down in US and Europe, but I did not take those because I cannot leave my parents alone in India. There is no social or government support for old people in India and life is difficult alone. That's the reason why most Indians want to bring in their entire family.
Do locals treat Indians differently because of this backlash?

You are not going to be able to bring your entire family. Too many people without means of support.

Entire family only means my mom, dad and my wife. My wife is very well qualified and should be able to get a good job in due course. My brother is already there, doing his MBA.

Wife should be fine. Parents may be rough, just look at LTVP threads for Indian parents. Plenty in this forum. If you have plans for PR expect it to be extremely difficult if your parents have LTVP. Even if they don't, you'll have to thoroughly convince them your parents wont be coming to stay here with you. (And I assume you have PR plans because of your intention to open a business).

[maidsrch]

This is my personal experience, and in no way meant to state that getting LTVPs for parents would be a breeze.

I am an Indian citizen as well, and came to SG approx 3 years back with husband on P1 and myself on DP. I got a job after a 8 month search and on a P1 pass (your wife should be fully aware how extremely frustrating it is searching for a job in this country).

I applied for LTVP for my parents while on a EP after the birth of my daughter. Got a 2 year LTVP approved for both parents in early 2012. In early 2013, our PR application was approved, and with that the existing LTVPs provided by MOM were automatically cancelled.

Since then we have applied for and successfully got 3 year LTVPs for both my parents (applied by me) and my in-laws (applied by my husband) without any issues. Not that we have 2 sets of parents living with us right now , they kind of take turns 3 months at a time enjoying time with their grand daughter.

So thats my story, and inspite of not being the flavor of the year I've been extremely lucky getting these privileges. Looking at my case, I can only say our combined pay played a big part in the approvals. So getting the LTVPs is possible, and like many of the regulars say here - Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Good luck!

[insingapore2014]

Do locals treat Indians differently because of this backlash?

Yes. Locals want foreigners who will integrate, not segregate. The view in Singapore is that India Indians (as opposed to Indians from Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, of which quite a few are here) do not integrate well, and even tend to look down on the Indians here. Your own first post gave a hint that integration isn't on top of your mind: Any insights on 'life in Singapore" for Indian families


Edit: and off the main topic, but to address a point in your first post:

For example, in California, you know $150K is a very good salary, $100K is pretty good, $80K is just enough, with $60K you can survive.

Add 50% all of those numbers if you're talking about the Bay Area (and for LA, we'll just say 'west of the 405', even though probably a lot east of the 405 too) and not having a 60 minute+ commute each way.

Thank you. But I asked about Indian families because mine is an Indian family. Not sure what you mean by integration, my family is a vegetarian, will remain one, they only speak Hindi and English and they are comfortable in certain clothing.
Enjoying each others festivals is ingrained in our Indian culture. Respecting each others' way of living is what I call "Integration", without losing your own identity.

And my question was more around how willing are locals in integrating with Indian families, and that's where the answer lies. And your comment above makes me feel otherwise, not very welcoming. It comes across as "If you want to stay at my place, you need to live my way and stop calling yourself an Indian". Why should there be any conditions apart from obeying laws and being nice to people around?
No Indian wants to go to Singapore to segregate, but some find it hard to get out of their comfort zones, which in my view is perfectly fine. I worked in countries where people hangout only with people who speak the same language, or follow the same interests.


Also, I have spent 5 years in California, between LA and SF , so I can tell you with good certainty that $150K is a very respectable salary.
Very few people get above $200K if you are taking about adding 50% to above numbers. A Sr. Manager at Google or Facebook would be making anywhere between $120K to $150K.

[insingapore2014]

You are not going to be able to bring your entire family. Too many people without means of support.

Entire family only means my mom, dad and my wife. My wife is very well qualified and should be able to get a good job in due course. My brother is already there, doing his MBA.

Wife should be fine. Parents may be rough, just look at LTVP threads for Indian parents. Plenty in this forum. If you have plans for PR expect it to be extremely difficult if your parents have LTVP. Even if they don't, you'll have to thoroughly convince them your parents wont be coming to stay here with you. (And I assume you have PR plans because of your intention to open a business).

Thanks. My PR plans are indeed driven by my plans to start a business. Is there any information on start-up visas, if I were to start my company before applying for PR?

[Wd40]

50 Lacs is a lot of money in India. I am from Bangalore, working here in Singapore for last 4.5 years. My colleagues who earn 80k SGD here left this place and went to India and took offers of 20-25 lacs in Pune. I am talking about banking IT domain and they were only like 10 years experienced technical leads.

50 Lacs and working in middle management you should look at atleast 180-200K SGD or else you are getting shortchanged and your standard of living in Singapore is gonna be terrible in comparison to India.

[Wd40]

Also, I have spent 5 years in California, between LA and SF , so I can tell you with good certainty that $150K is a very respectable salary.
Very few people get above $200K if you are taking about adding 50% to above numbers. A Sr. Manager at Google or Facebook would be making anywhere between $120K to $150K.

I dont know about California, but my colleagues work in New York, again banking IT and they are like just 10 years tech leads and they make $160K USD.

I think your salary expectations are on the lower side, especially considering you have reached the 50 Lacs level. Dont sell yourself so cheap. If I were you I would just stay back in India, if I cant get 180-200K SGD/USD/AUD etc