LETTER FROM SINGAPORE MINDEF FREAKING OUT MY WIFE

[sundaymorningstaple]

At least they don't have to pay Singapore taxes while living abroad - the "price" for American citizenship!

No Sh*t!!

[JR8]

Perhaps it isn't "punishment" to be called to do one's NS? Essentially, though, it's the "price of citizenship" for males. If you don't want to do it you have to renounce citizenship in a timely manner. That's all it takes and it doesn't sound like a burden to do so.

I don't think doing NS is going to "breed haters" as a result but rather to appreciate the country of their citizenship.

At least they don't have to pay Singapore taxes while living abroad - the "price" for American citizenship!

I'm going on the number of people who used to visit this forum, asking how to avoid their son's NS. I don't recall hearing anyone say they were looking forward to their 2 year stint, and/or that it was something from which they thought they'd derive any benefit.

'The price of citizenship' decided by a political party. Perhaps that's it, sometimes I wonder if the elected government confuse themselves with 'being' the State.

I'm inclined to believe that conscripted armies yield cannon-fodder (a la world war 1): The opposite of how war is fought today.

My gut feel is NS here is about modelling proud citizens. Now if SAF had a higher participation in UN peacekeeping missions, you know in places where troops sometimes die, or, half the US Navy wasn't moored up off Changi, I'd have reason to reconsider that... but for mysterious reasons they don't, do they?

(Please note, I'm simply debating a point, and not trying to pick any kind of fight or similar )

[sundaymorningstaple]

JR8, you forget, the only people who are familiar with this forum are generally those who have a problem initially. So, it's rare we get those who don't mind or are not adverse or hellbent of avoiding their nationalistic duties. Just the some of my peers in the 60's to ran off to Canada to avoid the draft, over all a very small percentage which, of course, the media played up to the hilt. Same thing here. Small amount but a lot are vocal only so as to be "included" in their peer group. Like son, he's finished he NS and while inconvenient, he still did it and is none the worse for it.

[sundaymorningstaple]

I'd say the gahment does a pretty good job of getting their boys out there without having to commit them to front line positions. Gahment is good at walking the fence as it were. More power to them, wish the US was a good at not getting our sons killed.

[PNGMK]

I have no issue with my son doing two years... it's the little Empresses that piss me off.

[sundaymorningstaple]

You've probably already seen my solution to that problem.

[zzm9980]

Perhaps that's it, sometimes I wonder if the elected government confuse themselves with 'being' the State.

Interestingly (and slightly off topic): The PLA (The armed forces in People's Republic of China) doesn't actually belong or report to the state, but to the communist party. Perhaps a model the current gahmen envies over the one they have.

[JR8]

Hmmm ... It would be interesting to do a quick survey of the peoples’ ‘first posts’, and if they are all problems seeking solutions...

re: the VN draft, well. The US demands to lead the free world (and exert their will and influence over everyone else), so that’s why the US ended up in Indochina. I believe in the theory of ‘The selfish gene’, i.e. that everything is ultimately driven by self-interest. I also appreciate it’s way more complex than that, and potentially quite an incendiary discussion particularly when it relates to ‘sending kids off to war; so I’ll refrain, as the risk of the nuance not being read, and causing offence is too high.

I’m not persuaded that your son (whom I know, a little) ‘is none the worse for it’. He’s spent two years, out of the career path, training to do something he’ll never have to. You don’t need to spend 2 years learning how to hand bottles of water to refugees. It reminds me of like the archetypal western student, who doesn’t know what they want to do, so life gets put on hold while they go off to uni to do a degree in ‘Media Studies’. But all said and done, I suppose the philosophy should be, if you’re never going to change the system, there’s no point whining about it ... hehehe...

SMS: 'More power to them, wish the US was a good at not getting our sons killed. '

So it’s ok for NSmen to not get sent into battle, whilst the American fleet is moored up, up the way, and their personnel are putting their lives on the line, for Singapore? How do you reconcile that?

[sundaymorningstaple]

Probably with a lot more knowledge first hand of military matters and male offspring than you do. It can change your perspective a lot if you have never walked that mile in their shoes. One cannot begin to understand, even in the most abstract sense unless you have traveled at lease SOME of the same path. Philosophical discussions won't begin to cover it.

[JR8]

If it's so good, that good, why do they have to force you to do it under threat of arrest?

[sundaymorningstaple]

I beg you pardon. I enlisted of my own free will. The US has an entirely voluntary military. Singapore is too small to have a voluntary army therefore it has to be mandatory. Why do some people make a career out of the military?

Why did I enlist? They had something that I wanted and couldn't afford to get it as a civilian. Therefore I got it for free. The fact that I didn't fall in love with it enough to continue after returning to civilian life is immaterial.

[JR8]

The moderator writes >>>

"It must be an incredibly hard transformation into civilian employment."

CRAP!

Sorry JR8. I must have hit the edit button instead of the quote button and I deleted all but the last line that I wanted to quote. Wasn't until hitting Submit that I realized what I did. Dayam! Haven't done that in a while? Can you remember what the rest was?

Sorry.


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Is posting, under the name of forum regulars, acceptable. Wow, what a disappointment.

[sundaymorningstaple]

"It must be an incredibly hard transformation into civilian employment."

It is, especially for 20 year lifers. 38~40 years old, hit civilian life and no longer CTA's by a chain of command and forcing one to think for themselves. A lot don't make it. A lot end up as mercenaries. Civilian Security, police, or unemployed. My Ex Brother in Law (R.I.P.) was one such. Couldn't make it in civilian life after being rifted after the end of the VN war in 76. He was a Major and then was a civilian with nothing to offer and the inability to function in civilian life effectively, 33 jobs later in 5 years he managed to eventually get into the Air National Guard so was able to put on a uniform again. That is where he stayed until his death due to cancer at 44 I think (he wasn't my Brother in Law then so we lost touch with each other).

[Mad Scientist]

Sorry coming late to the party.

OP > if you are reading this , read carefully

1. Your son is borned in Singapore hence leaving SG at an early age and holding only US PP does not change one bit. Although he does not hold any SG PP nor gain any benefit from SG, having a SG birth cert is enough to be seen as gaining a benefit from SG gahmen. .
2. You did not state your intention to renounce his SG citizenship when he turn 13 nor did you inform ICA before that.

3. The fact that ICA manage to send a letter to your US address means they know where the child is.

4. Now he is 19 and way outside the 16 year pre enlistment requirement which mean he is categorically an NS defaulter as all male child needs to do NS at the age of 18 approx.

5.Seeking lawyer advice and representing you does not work and it has not worked before nor will work work in the future. In fact it will make matter worse

6. No one will knock on your door at night and take your child away unless your child or family is a POI.

7. Going back to SG without solving this issue will make it worse as your child might be stopped at border control in SG.

8. You have two choices.

a) screw NS and never steps back to SG . EVER

b) go back and register for NS. Maybe a small fine of $500.00 min and do NS. Then go back to US but child needs to decide to choose US or SG citizen at age 21 i.e force to by SG Gahmen as per guideline.
Renounce US citizen and stay with SG citizen but apply US citizen after that. RE apply this US back in home soil . This can be done. Seek US Immigration Lawyer on this as these route has been done by many. Important note is not to do this in US Embassy in SG

Good Luck

ms

[sundaymorningstaple]

The moderator writes >>>

"It must be an incredibly hard transformation into civilian employment."

CRAP!

Sorry JR8. I must have hit the edit button instead of the quote button and I deleted all but the last line that I wanted to quote. Wasn't until hitting Submit that I realized what I did. Dayam! Haven't done that in a while? Can you remember what the rest was?

Sorry.


-----------------------------------------

Is posting, under the name of forum regulars, acceptable. Wow, what a disappointment.

Still a bit of a douche, eh? I even apologized and explained what happened.