Black Mold in an Apartment

[sundaymorningstaple]

I was originally responding to a PM but jumped when I shouldn't have. My apologies. But looking at something that Terrance told me last year, regarding Black Mold found in Singapore versus Toxic Black Mold (Stachybotrys_chartarumas) found in the US, as we DID have that problem as well as lots of other folks where I'm from, in the aftermath of Hurricane Isabel back in 2003. It took over 6 months of drying out and removing wooden wall paneling and replacing insulation before the house was habitable again. Other homes had to be razed or had entire floors & subfloors removed because of "Toxic" Black Mold. Which is but one of around 26 species of black mold.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stachybotrys#Species

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stachybotrys_chartarum

Originally, toxic effects from mold were thought to be the result of exposure to the mycotoxins of some mold species, such as Stachybotrys chartarum. However, studies are suggesting that the so-called toxic effects are actually the result of chronic activation of the immune system, leading to chronic inflammation.[citation needed] Studies indicate that up to 25% of the population have the genetic capability of experiencing chronic inflammation to mold exposure, but only 2% actually experience such symptoms.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mold_health_issues

So I would guess, if the child already had an asthmatic condition, then yeah, it could affect the child while not really bothering the adults who were actually sleeping in the room as the Black Mold here is not of the "Toxic" variety.

[Zeenit]

Thanks SMS, they want to get the condo SAFE but that is does not seem to be an option from the LL point and also if its the view of people in general I despair. Sorry Guys.

From the top, How do they get the LL to make the condo safe to live in and thats not happening a few months later.

then of thats not possible CAN they legally get out of their lease.
Nobody is trying to do things illegally or no Parent wants their kids to live in an unheathly HOME.
But I cant seem to get amy help other than a few friends on here.
Does MS know anything about these things?
Btw Thanks x9200 appreciate your help.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Here SMS:

After A&E visits NEA got involved and came to do a site visit. They tested the air con, water etc and there was nothing but after pulling the parents bed away from the wall discovered a wall of Black Mold behind the bed.

It is probably safe to assume NEA is at least as knowledgeable as Terrence, don't you think?

Normally, I would agree, but seeing that Toxic Black Mold isn't found here, and the statement only said they found black mold, but it didn't indicate whether it was tested for "Toxic" or the normal mold here. It was more like a statement of "we found black mold in the bedroom". Having to deal with NEA on an almost daily basis, we often find large gaps in their knowledge as it normal with "by the book, civil servants".

[the lynx]

Here SMS:

After A&E visits NEA got involved and came to do a site visit. They tested the air con, water etc and there was nothing but after pulling the parents bed away from the wall discovered a wall of Black Mold behind the bed.

It is probably safe to assume NEA is at least as knowledgeable as Terrence, don't you think?

Normally, I would agree, but seeing that Toxic Black Mold isn't found here, and the statement only said they found black mold, but it didn't indicate whether it was tested for "Toxic" or the normal mold here. It was more like a statement of "we found black mold in the bedroom". Having to deal with NEA on an almost daily basis, we often find large gaps in their knowledge as it normal with "by the book, civil servants".

I concur with SMS on the NEA works. Yes they have the authority but the officers who go around like that are sadly, for most of them, not well experienced (except for few old chaps who are veterans on this). Having worked with them before, they get on my nerve with their limitations.

...and I will be attending a course conducted by them end of this month. What to do? Gotta need my license. Wee~~~

[x9200]

Cannot comment on NAE's competency. I normally give a lot of credit to the governmental institutions in Singapore (as opposite to the running national average). Still there is one more thing: not sure whether Zeenit used the word intentionally but she wrote that NEA was testing. Testing is taking some measurements against a specific factor and this can not be mold in general as mold is everywhere.

Anyway, I don't think it is a bad idea to contact Terrence (although I think it may not be what the friends of Zeenit are looking for). I was more...hmmm. disturbed but the arbitrary and categoric judgment without a single word supporting the sentence

[sundaymorningstaple]

Rereading the post, it would appear that NEA was only testing aircons & water for mold/pathogens not for type or toxicity. This is normally what they do. Even EV showed us photos of where specifically to look in Aircon units for mold growing as at a cursory glance they might appear clean (e.g., filters). But as noted, that is only locating, not analyzing the types found. I might be wrong, but I've got too much experience of dealing with NEA types in the field (7 years worth and ongoing).

Just to give you an example, the courses that NEA used to give for pest control technicians was really not all that hard (N levels could pass it easily - minimum educational requirements to take the course). As of around 18 months ago, they no longer do the training courses and the courses are given by one of the ITEs here. Most of our technicians with valid NEA licenses and a couple years of experience would fail the ITE exams. In fact our pass rate is pretty abysmal in comparison. So much so that we are now giving remedial/additional inhouse classes to supplement the ITE classes to help up the pass rate. Oh, previously, when our guys passed the Technician's course and had about a year under their belts, they would be stolen by NEA! Nah, I've got too much experience with NEA........

x9200, you have heaps of supporting stuff now. Like I said I had other problem yesterday and just didn't think/have the time to get the research for what I already knew. But at least I'm free of Latent TB. That's one consolation (unfortunately about half of my office are on meds now for 6 months).

[x9200]

SMS, I hope you don't mind me stopping at this point.
Good to hear you are ok.

[ev-disinfection]

Good day all,
My suggestion is to have the kids do a prick test, to see what they are allergic too, and if they are allergic to mold, and if mold is found in the home, then that would probably be grounds for breaking the lease.

It is sad that almost all LL's use the same old general tenancy agreement.
But the good news is that the tenant (Expats or others) are the only people who can make a change to that.

We have found that the expats who bring their children with them to SE Asia, almost 70 % of them will develop some sort of allergies (example: Asthma / Conjunctivitis / Eczema ...etc) as they are not born here and some younger ones have not fully develop their resistance levels to fight these ailments.

This are caused by:
Lifestyle : expats should not live here like back home. Like wearing outdoor footware into the home / not closing the bathroom door after a shower / Hanging laundry indoors / keeping shoes in the wardrobe ...etc

Mechanical: Air conditioning units needs to be mold free when taking over the unit / leaky pipes ... etc

My 2 cents.

[zzm9980]

This are caused by:
Lifestyle : expats should not live here like back home. Like wearing outdoor footware into the home / not closing the bathroom door after a shower / Hanging laundry indoors / keeping shoes in the wardrobe ...etc

Can you elaborate?

I take my shoes off indoors.

But I keep the bathroom door open after a shower, to help dissipate the humidity.

My wife hangs our laundry both inside and out, depending on what it is. (she has a bad habit of losing things in the tree outside...)

I keep my shoes in a shoe cabinet we have. Interestingly, mold likes to grow in my shoes if I don't wear them often enough.

[Zeenit]

SMS, I hope you don't mind me stopping at this point.
Good to hear you are ok.

Good to hear you ok.

[JR8]

This are caused by:
Lifestyle : expats should not live here like back home. Like wearing outdoor footware into the home / not closing the bathroom door after a shower / Hanging laundry indoors / keeping shoes in the wardrobe ...etc

Can you elaborate?

I take my shoes off indoors.

But I keep the bathroom door open after a shower, to help dissipate the humidity.

My wife hangs our laundry both inside and out, depending on what it is. (she has a bad habit of losing things in the tree outside...)

I keep my shoes in a shoe cabinet we have. Interestingly, mold likes to grow in my shoes if I don't wear them often enough.

EV-D caused a bit of confusion when he made these points last time. He is working with an assumption that the unit is air-conned all the time, hence not to add to the humidity inside the unit.

[zzm9980]

Ok, fair enough.

I rarely aircon if I can helpit.

[x9200]

Hi Terrence. You are neglecting us a bit

Good day all,
My suggestion is to have the kids do a prick test, to see what they are allergic too, and if they are allergic to mold, and if mold is found in the home, then that would probably be grounds for breaking the lease.

It is sad that almost all LL's use the same old general tenancy agreement.
But the good news is that the tenant (Expats or others) are the only people who can make a change to that.

Sure, but they have it already in place (the TA) so saying they can probably break the lease because their child is allergic to a factor (not necessarily a pathogen) naturally occurring in Singapore including the household is based on what? You should see the TA first. Even if a suitable clause is included you should make a link between the factor and the child health condition.
A typical clause commonly present in the TAs is on the premises becoming uninhabitable. Maybe you could give your professional advice for this part: a patch of black mold (assuming it is "toxic") behind the bed, typical Singapore case you experience daily, settings, condo etc, how would you handle it? Do the occupants needs to move out? If yes, how long would it take to make the place inhabitable again?

[ev-disinfection]

Hey X9200,
Have been really busy with disinfecting homes / offices since i last posted,

1. The moisture that is produced during a shower, should be dissipated through the ventilation windows, and not into the living area (bedroom / hall)
AC or no AC

2. To have a mold infection, 2 things needs to be present, Moisture and Mold introduction.
Moisture can be introduced by the bathroom / hanging laundry inside the home / the heavy rains - closed up home.
Mold can be introduced into a home by the furniture / shoes / opening of the windows & doors in homes below the treeline in that area (a gust of wind will intro the mold in)
Note that if your place is humid like a sauna, without a mold introduction, your place will just be wet.
and if your place has some visible mold, and if you keep the RH (relative humidity in your home below 50%, the mold will stop growing. (with usage of a dehumidifier)

All homes are different - more humid / less humid, low floor / high floor - and that is why we need to inspect the home first, everytime.

3, If the TA would contact us, we would be able to provide a free inspection of the home in question. and advise accordingly.

[ecureilx]

I think your friend can request the LLs to remove the mold. They will help you to remove the mold.

O.... K....