Moving to Singapore - should I just buy rather than rent?

[SingMark]

I am moving to Singers shortly from HK. I am looking for something similar to what I live in over in HK, and I am thinking of just buying in Singapore rather than renting, as in HK we are quite used to higher prices. Borrowing costs seem low in Singapore.

Does anyone have suggestions on this? Most Singaporians seem to think prices will fall 10-30 per cent the next few years, but I am not so sure about that? I am looking at older places around the area of the bottanical gardens.

Thanks guys.

[carteki]

It depends - how long is a piece of string. Seriously if we all knew the answer then we'd be billionaires.

It depends on your risk appetite. Although the interest rates are low, you will need to put down a substantial deposit - 20% is the minimum mandated by law x $1.5+m is over $200k! If interest rates rise, what will you do? and how much more can you afford? How long are you planning on staying here? If you sell within 4 years of purchasing there is now a tax payable on the profits - not sure as to the details.

To me the pro's and con's look something like this ...
Buying
+ you own the property and can make what changes you like
- you own the property and are liable for all repairs etc (esp in a communal living environment like a condo)
+ you are not subject to the whims of sg's infamous landlords and you will get your deposit back when you leave (at 2 months rent, this is big plus!)
- property prices could nose dive
+ property prices and rentals could skyrocket leaving you sitting pretty.
- interest rates could rise
+ you never have to move, deal with landlords whims, constant show houses
+ other than interest rate changes your cost of housing doesn't change
- time taken to sell up / vacate

Not complete. Perhaps others might have some more (think this has been discussed previously in the forum too)

Cheers
Kim

[ecureilx]

I am moving to Singers shortly from HK. I am looking for something similar to what I live in over in HK, and I am thinking of just buying in Singapore rather than renting, as in HK we are quite used to higher prices. Borrowing costs seem low in Singapore.

Does anyone have suggestions on this? Most Singaporians seem to think prices will fall 10-30 per cent the next few years, but I am not so sure about that? I am looking at older places around the area of the bottanical gardens.

Thanks guys.

I strongly suggest you buy .. oh, don't look far, I can assist you for property above 1,5 MIL .. when will you send the money ??

Well, seriously, prices are not expected to drop, and anyway, what would you do in singapore ? Work or retire or ????

[SingMark]

Thanks guys - the reply from Kim pretty much makes sense and summarizes my thinking.

I am thinking something around 2.5 to 3m. That would require a deposit of around 600k (which I have). And then interest payments after that seem to be cheaper then renting. Of course there is the risk of loss of capital value though, if prices drop.

Also, the idea of Sentosa appeals to me, but prices seem crazy there. I would say they are much much more than something like Park Island in HK which is actually quite cheap. Is there anything like Park Island in Singapore at reasonable value? Some details and photos of Park Island here http://parkislandhongkong.blogspot.com/ ... sland.html for anyone who is not familiar with it.

I would be quite willing to live out of the main part of the city and drive in each day, provided that I get a nicer place being further out.

[zzm9980]

That looks similar to any of the condo complexes on East Coast (near the beach). Actually, with the exception of the theme park, it looks like condo complexes in most of Singapore. Singapore as a whole is very much like a "Disney" version of Hong Kong Except maybe Geylang, but even that can seem a bit like a take on Pirates of the Carribean (the ride, not the movie)

[SingMark]

Good point. I think you are probably right! Will in HK, these Singapore type developments like Park Island in Hong Kong are still quite rare. We are more used to just big buildings here with very little facilities, except perhaps a small pool for most HK apartments.

How about living way outside of Singapore. Is there such a thing as "the countryside" where you can live?

PS - I have heard about Gay Lang. We have an equavilent in HK. Its called Wan Chai! Ha ha ha... But seriously, I read on the plane in a Singapore magazine, that even in Gay Lang prices are rising fast!

[SingMark]

With regard to interest rates, does anyone have views as to what rates will be over the next 5 years? (And don't tell me, how long is a piece of string!). I'm thinking SIBOR would stay between .3 to 2.5% for this period. Sound reasonable?

[movingtospore]

What I am hearing is that prices are poised for a bit of a nose-dive here. They have built up a ton lately and a bunch of new condos are coming on the market. Who knows. But, if it were me, and I had the cash (which I don't) I would sit on it for 6 months and see what happens.

[zzm9980]

What I am hearing is that prices are poised for a bit of a nose-dive here. They have built up a ton lately and a bunch of new condos are coming on the market. Who knows. But, if it were me, and I had the cash (which I don't) I would sit on it for 6 months and see what happens.

Yeah, I had some cab driver lecture me for 20 minutes the other day on the intricacies of the Singapore real estate market, and point by point told me why it will plummet with the bottom in 3 years. I suppose there is no reason why his opinion on the length of a piece of string is different than anyone elses (my new favorite phrase, from these forums. thanks!)

[SingMark]

Movetosingapore and zzm - what you guys are saying, is exactly consistent with what I was told, by many different people, when I was in Singapore last week. So, it does make you wonder, if everyone seems to think this, will it in fact happen.

Here's a thought though - if everyone already know about the glut of property, the 30% drop etc, then why is this not reflected in the prices now???

PS - on a related note, has anyone heard of or lived in Gallop Greens? Near Farrer Road and near the new MRT. Any feedback on that?

[alanoh]

Movetosingapore and zzm - what you guys are saying, is exactly consistent with what I was told, by many different people, when I was in Singapore last week. So, it does make you wonder, if everyone seems to think this, will it in fact happen.

Here's a thought though - if everyone already know about the glut of property, the 30% drop etc, then why is this not reflected in the prices now???

PS - on a related note, has anyone heard of or lived in Gallop Greens? Near Farrer Road and near the new MRT. Any feedback on that?

Singaporean got holding power! When they buy property, they already prepared to hold for at least 4 years or even longer due to the Seller Stamp Duty which is 16% 1st year, 12% 2nd year, 8% 3rd year and 4% 4th year. So I doubt it will drop very much.

[taxico]

Here's a thought though - if everyone already know about the glut of property, the 30% drop etc, then why is this not reflected in the prices now???

i'm not a property agent, but i enjoy good buys.

property prices won't drop without reason - they're not reflective immediately either.

singaporeans don't like missing the boat; they'd rather keep buying than to lose out... at all costs and risks! (IMO)

i've stopped buying since feb 2011. my last residential purchase was an MCST 3-storey suburban freehold townhouse with a yard at about $800/sf with a 15-year 50% loan.

most singaporeans look at the price quantum, not at the PSF price (which is getting to, if not past, ridiculous levels).

by buying prudently and within your means, especially for a property you will be living in long term, you will (IMO) never get burnt due to/because of the cyclical nature of singapore property market.

all my properties are tenanted and the rent pays the monthly mortgage. i own mostly commercial properties. i've bought and sold a few medical suites in the last few years. i will only consider buying 999/FH residential properties - i dislike condos due to the volatility.

i've also converted 2 residential properties into commercial-use properties (usually at a cost of about $65-95k) which increases rental yield by about 50% and reduces my repayment period quickly.

i'm currently staying in a rented place which is very close to my and my wife's work place because it's much cheaper than buying a place here (tanglin halt) at the moment. i also don't have to own a car! (HI SUNDAY! YOU HEARD RIGHT! I'M NOW CAR-LESS! :b)

but if something suitable comes up at the right price, i'll buy it. given current conditions this is very unlikely. but i'll be around to snap up bargain buys!

good luck in your hunt for a home.

[sundaymorningstaple]

[SingMark]

Movetosingapore and zzm - what you guys are saying, is exactly consistent with what I was told, by many different people, when I was in Singapore last week. So, it does make you wonder, if everyone seems to think this, will it in fact happen.

Here's a thought though - if everyone already know about the glut of property, the 30% drop etc, then why is this not reflected in the prices now???

PS - on a related note, has anyone heard of or lived in Gallop Greens? Near Farrer Road and near the new MRT. Any feedback on that?

Singaporean got holding power! When they buy property, they already prepared to hold for at least 4 years or even longer due to the Seller Stamp Duty which is 16% 1st year, 12% 2nd year, 8% 3rd year and 4% 4th year. So I doubt it will drop very much.

So what was the purpose of introducing the stamp duty? To make prices go up, or down? From what you are saying the stamp duty actually is actually helping support the market!

[sundaymorningstaple]

Stamp duty is just another way the gahmen line their coffers. Everything in Singapore is taxed one way or the other. It's how they pull the wool over everybody's eyes by shouting to the world "look how low our corporate tax rates are, come and set up shop here" meanwhile, once you are locked in, they gouge the hell out of you for everything else.

Stamp duty,
COE
ERP
Property Tax
Sales Tax (GST)
Income Tax
CESS
Customs duties (high)
Road Tax
and countless others