Why would the road signs be in English when the native language is something else? Singapore's first language is not English even if you and many others like to think it is, that is just a ridiculous assertion. Having good grades in exams and attending prestigious universities has little bearing on how well a nation speaks English that only comes with practice. This has been discussed before so I hope your not simply trying to stir something up.Skpp wrote:. In fact, in Italy, France, Germany, Austria, Sweden, Finland, etc, their road signs are not even in English and their citizens do not even speak English as a first language, which is something we do in Singapore!
Quite easily, The education system here is geared towards "parrot learning" in order to pass you just have to very good at memorizing and regurgitating the facts. If it come to a design orientated subject where a bit of lateral thinking is required, like the Arts/architecture, I think you will find the tables turns against Singapore. In the UK the emphasis on the type and style of learning is more evenly spread, hence the results?Skpp wrote: How else can you describe the fact that many Singaporean students like myself have sat for the exact same English exam and scored better than 85% of the students in the UK?
The vast majority speak broken English or Singlish as it's more commonly known! Those who speak it well are a very small minority (and yes you are most probably one and therefore feel you have been wrongly tarred). If the only people that foreigners meet speak bad English, how can you expect them to think otherwise? Pray tell? Look at the level of Education in the last quarter of a century. Educational levels have risen dramatically but the level of English has gone down just as dramatically. Why? Because it was around 30 years ago that Singapore stopped using native English speakers to teach the language and started using locally trained ones. There was the problem.While it is true that some Singaporeans do speak broken English,
I was never kiasu. And never will be.sundaymorningstaple wrote:You cannot "route learn" to pass an English exam because thare are no formulas to memorize. You can only route learn sciences, mathematics...etc.Unfortunately, the "mugging" for exams only allows the Singaporean to pass the exam, but doesn't allow them to absorb anything in long term memory. That is why after 10 minutes of discussion they rarely have any more to say as you have exhausted their test text boundaries.
It is not possible to prepare for an English exam by memorizing. The only way is to have a strong foundation in English.
Your argument is not valid.
Singaporean kids who sit for their PSLE/O/A levels and score good grades are definately sound in the fundamentals of English.
You are wrong.Oh, by the way, the latest stats are such that the population is no more than 25% foreign.
35% of Singapore's population are foreigners (including PRs). Strictly speaking, PRs are not Singapore citizens because they do not hold a Singapore passport but one from another Country. They are a citizen of their own countries. If you include transient tourists, I think the figure could be ~40%
I am just trying to show you that there are many foreigners in Singapore. More than 25% of the population like what you claimed.
Personally, I love foreigners and have loads of friends from all over the world. I feel they make the city more vibrant and exciting.
Singapore has 4 official languages - English, Tamil, Chinese, Malay. But English is used mainly.Singapore has no "first" language, English is the Language of Government but there are 4 main languages here and all have a place.
Every student studies in English. Not in the other 3 languages.
Parliament talks in English. Laws are enacted in English. Not in the other 3 languages.
Generally everythinng is in English, from the road signs to the menus to the internet forums.
But don't tell "Plavt" that. Even though everything is in English here, he still thinks we are not native speakers. Perhaps, he has very high standards.
Many other English speaking Countries do have more than one official languauge.
Canada - French and English
RSA - African languages and English.
All the English I know was taught to me by Singaporean teachers. Going by your agument, I should have failed in international exams and failed to complete my UK degree.Unfortunately, both Mandarin and English have suffered greatly at the hand of local teachers.
In contrast, the opposite holds true. I have managed to score an A on my GCE Cambridge O level examamination, the very same exam where only 15% of students in the UK manage an A grade.
I have also done a BA and MBA from the UK.
I am very happy to be born in Singapore. If I was born anywhere else in Asia, I doubt I would speak English as well as I do today.
Was I a superb student? Not really. I was around the twentieth percentile in school. I did ok in my exams. When I was in poly, I flunked out because I was too busy chasing skirts to sit down and study. After NS, I pulled myself together and collected a few certificates.
Lol. I have been to China. Many Singaporeans love to visit China. With the advent of the budget airlines, you can fly to China and back for 300sgd.If you go to China, you will also find out just how bad the level of instruction in Mandarin is as well.
The PRC Chinese refused to believe that I was not a local because my Chinese sounds so "China like". I had a hard time convincing them that I was not from China. Some of them thought I was lying
There are a few who told me my Chinese sounds like "Taiwanese Chinese".
In fact when I was in Sichuan, quite a few of the Sichuan people do not speak Chinese (putonghua) as well as I do. This is because they tend to speak in their own Sichuan dialect all the time.
I have no need to "protect" anything. I feel very comfortable with who I am and where I come from.So rather than sticking you foot in your mouth trying to protect your country's general poor level of English. Be happy that they do so well in the Maths & Sciences Fields.
The educated Singaporean IS a native English speaker and is as proficient in English as those from the uk/us/canada etc.
Singapore is more english speaking than most parts of Europe with the exception of the UK. As I have said before, in most parts of Europe their road signs are not even in English.
Kiasu-ism doesn't suit you.
Skpp, There you go... you have an A in English and yet you completely missed what Plavt was getting at. I am sure your sentence has all the correct adverbs and subjective pronouns etc. which actually means bugger all to me, I failed my English O levels.Skpp(new) wrote: As I have said before, in most parts of Europe their road signs are not even in English.
LOL QRM, I do not look down on those who have a lower education than me. Many are hardworking people who make an honest living and contribute in their own ways to society. I was merely explaining why some of them speak broken English.QRM wrote:Thank you Skpp, your English may be A grade, but your post has made a perfect example of another strange Singapore trait, kiasu-ness.
Lets be honest, who would you rather sit next to at a dinner party someone who has straight A in all the subjects or a person who is "normal"?
One thing that you seem to imply is that Singlish is something only peasants do, you are almost ashamed of it. Only a small percentage of the population can afford to send their kids overseas for an education.
If you ask me, once you get the hang of Singlish, it is one of the most endearing qualities of this place.
LOL QRM. I've got my pencil with me and I am going for :QRM wrote:Skpp, There you go... you have an A in English and yet you completely missed what Plavt was getting at. I am sure your sentence has all the correct adverbs and subjective pronouns etc. which actually means bugger all to me, I failed my English O levels.Skpp(new) wrote: As I have said before, in most parts of Europe their road signs are not even in English.
If it helps, if you saw an exam paper with the following question which option would you pick.
Q: In most parts of Europe their road signs are not even in English
A: a) A very daft thing to say OR b) I cant see the problem with the statement.
My opinions are not personal at all, Singaporeans may like to claim English as their first language but to do so is erroneous - simple question: what do most speak in their own homes and what language do they drift into? They certainly don't drift into English and therefore cannot logically claim to be native English speakers. Your claim that 30-40 percent of the population are foreigners cannot be correct as that mean nearly half the population of Singapore - I've seen far more locals than foreigners unless there has been an invasion that nobody has noticed.Skpp(new) wrote:
I base my stand on solid facts and figures. You and "Plavt" throw up a lot of personal opinions. Many of your opinions as I have shown above, are misinformed.
While this thread is about bad English in Singapore, I mentioned to my wife I would like my daughter to go for Mandarin Lesson, she insisted we don't use a Singaporean teacher, as their Mandarin is as bad as their English , apparently it has a distinctly local twang. To me mandarin is Mandarin.sundaymorningstaple wrote:..... So yeah, you could say the level of Mandarin is probably rising among the population if only because of the increase of "NEW" citizens from China. And they also say the same as I do about the level of Mandarin in Singapore.
Skpp, again you miss the point its not just about grades, who would you employ a French or German who gets a C in English, but has great social skills, and a very balanced view on life. OR a Kaisu Singaporean who has an A in English but has lead a very cocooned life, as you said it.Skpp(new) wrote: A lot of people here still think that way. You can ask a few people on the streets "Do Europeans speak English?" and hear what they have got to say.
Well if a German or French guy can work and thrive in the UK, then us Singaporeans should be even better positioned with our English speaking ability.
"Lowly" is a somewhat offensive term for people of lower social status and you're using it to modify "educated", so the implication is that you're talking about educated people who are below you in social status. You presumably mean "less educated".While it is true that some Singaporeans do speak broken English, these people are often the lowly educated.
There is your answer there
Cashiering does not mean what you think it does, and you've misspelled it to boot.We have to interact with many of these lowly educated people on a daily basis because they are often the ones casheiring at the local supermarket or serving us food at the coffeeshop.
That should be "my ex-classmates and I", and you can't use "personally" to modify your classmates.Personally, many of my ex classmates and myself have scored an A for English at the Cambridge O levels.
Your English (in your opinion) is comparable to, not "as".As Singaporeans, we have nothing to be ashamed of. Our English standard is as comparable, and on ocassions
That should be either "The Singaporean accent" or "Singaporeans' accent".I was educated in a British university. The Singaporean's accent is rather neutral and it can be easily understood.
Snicker. Take a look at English education in Japan, which has an excellent track record of producing students who ace their fiendishly difficult exams, yet are unable to string together a coherent sentence.Skpp(new) wrote:You cannot "route learn" to pass an English exam because thare are no formulas to memorize. You can only route learn sciences, mathematics...etc.
It is not possible to prepare for an English exam by memorizing. The only way is to have a strong foundation in English.
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