looking for a Marketing job in singapore

[winger7]

I am probably a junior compared to you, I've only worked for a year and a half. True about job agencies too, I heard they're not very useful at all. I suppose applying for jobs that list themselves individually in websites would be a good idea. Somehow it doesn't seem realistic at all seeking for a job outside of Singapore...especially seeing how i only have 1 year of useful work experience

[rahulmathur]

hii KSL,

Thank you very much for your encouraging words. this is the best advise one could give..belive in yourself, be committed and keep trying cuz you never know when life takes a 360 degree turn you land up where you always wanted to be. People here talk about having experience to get a job but how someone is supposed to gain experiece and prove his credentials until and unless he is given a chance. They criticise you for your shortcomings which actually are not shortcomings but areas for improvement. I have always belived that one need to have a right kind of attitude and approach to achieve success in professional as well as personal life.
A wise man has said..natural ability without education has more often raised a man to glory and virtue than education without natural ability..the greater the difficulty the greater the glory

[ksl]

I am probably a junior compared to you, I've only worked for a year and a half. True about job agencies too, I heard they're not very useful at all. I suppose applying for jobs that list themselves individually in websites would be a good idea. Somehow it doesn't seem realistic at all seeking for a job outside of Singapore...especially seeing how i only have 1 year of useful work experience

Some of the guys coming over from China are in the same boat, cost of living here is pretty high for them, and pay is poor for a long working day.

So what matters is if you have the personality to be a little extrovert now and then, and have an interest to learn and succeed, a passion for the work, is what is needed, and not a passion for the comfort zone, good workers are normally looked after, knowing who is boss, and showing the respect is often appreciated and returned,

Yes I guess you are a junior, I have had my good and bad times, the last 40 years. I'm basically retired these days, have been for a while, but I do keep my hand in, with family business and freelance work for Taiwan as a consultant.

Our vinegars are sold in Hong Kong too and have been for a number of years now, we are also in Vietnam, China, USA, Canada, and the UK.

[ksl]

hii KSL,

Thank you very much for your encouraging words. this is the best advise one could give..belive in yourself, be committed and keep trying cuz you never know when life takes a 360 degree turn you land up where you always wanted to be. People here talk about having experience to get a job but how someone is supposed to gain experiece and prove his credentials until and unless he is given a chance. They criticise you for your shortcomings which actually are not shortcomings but areas for improvement. I have always belived that one need to have a right kind of attitude and approach to achieve success in professional as well as personal life.
A wise man has said..natural ability without education has more often raised a man to glory and virtue than education without natural ability..the greater the difficulty the greater the glory

You ask me the catch 22 question, it's like asking me about what came first the chicken or the egg and i would tell you exactly what came first. The catch 22 is only a problem to resolve, and i have resolved a few of them, think about the problem for a while! The main advice i give anyone is to stay on the straight and narrow path to your destination and don't wonder, ethics and honesty matter, and for every problem you solve, you will be rewarded with strength, if there is the will, there is a way, downfalls, are exactly that, embrace them and learn from them.....My son used to ask me, why i bothered doing so many courses, like butchering, welding, woodwork, concreting, tiling, electrics, mechanics, computers, and a few others like drainage, plumbing and roofing, i said to save money when I get my own property, and to get the experience, because it's useful. I also hold all driving licences too and have done trucking casual labour when desperate, long before i did my education in trade, I have only done what i like to do, and that is learn. Most of my experience comes from 10 years in the military, were one gets opportunities for yachting, skiing, and other outdoor activities, health and fitness started there for me, I used to hate it, until, the mind took over, and the rest didn't matter anymore, I thrived on the challenge of endurance and initiative and finally found i could no longer adapt to the civilian way of working, in most cases in the lower ranks of life, so climbed the ladder and eventually took my own leave, because of circumstances beyond my control, and from that day, I have always been freelance, although i am a team player, with the right kind of people!

[winger7]

Hey again KSL, to be honest since that one time i got feedback from you I've always thought that you've been very helpful in your responses. I did actually check out your website on vinegars. Anyway I hope I'm not asking too many questions but it always works to younger one's advantage to be talking to people who have gone through more. I know what you mean by people coming from China and landing in Singapore looking to make a living, same for Indians and so on, I've been to Singapore a few times and have noticed that. The main question I have is about savings. If I did land in Singapore empty handedly relying on my savings, I would only be able to stay in Singapore for about 3 months without a job seeing how I would need to be paying for rent and monthly expenses. That is why I am so eager to secure a job in Hong Kong before landing there. Do you know how people from China and India make it over there like that? They must have some sort of savings if they do not have a job in hand already. Again I deeply appreciate the help and useful feedback you have given me over the past months

[road.not.taken]

Strange you should say that RNT, I personally know several people with no education and cannot read or write and have gained enormous wealth through their own talents and abilities of doing business, which appears to knock your theory a little.

That may be, but your anecdotal experiences aren't a full picture of the situation our young OP finds himself in? Is it? He says his basics are in tact -- but I'm not convinced. You're arguing that he may not need them based on exceptions you've seen, that's a different theory all together.

Your posts are just so darn long ksl, I have to admit I rarely read them. Apologies if I overlooked some salient points which expound on your position.

[sundaymorningstaple]

ksl's posts are always long-winded. Just like mine, but moreso. And his knowledge/history is pretty solid especially when it comes to giving posters hope.

However, this is were we part. As an HR Manager of a medium sized SME (215 staff currently - and short of help always - just like ksl) I don't believe in giving false hopes. In theory, ksl's correct. In actual practice he's also correct - in normal times. I do the same. But, when I cannot get foreigners positions it's usually about 1) Quota's; 2) Education; 3) communication; or 4) no experience - and this one doesn't really bother me too much except for a couple of positions.

In my industry, it's a menial labour one so educational levels are minimal to say the least. English, rudimentary is okay. Although no English poses a problem as all of our staff has to undergo training & certification with NEA. This is a problem as NEA only conducts the courses in English. But we are talking labourers here.

As a headhunter however, I have a different set of problems. Track record among local employers is primary. They usually don't have the deep pockets of MNC's so don't tend to gamble as much. This is in the best of times. Currently, we aren't in the best of times. Frankly, we are in the worst time that most of use have ever seen (and I'm 61 and don't remember a worse time) My parents do, though as the lived as children during the great depression.

We don't even have a clue where the bottom is or how long it's going to stay there when it hits. Therefore, the advice I give is based on how I currently see the situation here in Singapore and what seems to be the current local employer's penchants and MOM's ongoing current policies which are never in print so we only ever have anecdotal evidence to go on.

Most new grads have little to offer an employer here because they don't offer anything concrete. Sorry, but attitude and energy don't really wash with the local boss. ksl, like myself and like my boss (who is local but spend 22 years as an investment banker in the UK before returning to Singapore) look at thing from a western perspective. But even then, none of us "western perspective" types have been in the workforce in our home countries for quite some time either. From what I've heard, a lot has changed there as well.

You want to come to Singapore? The best way is still to have something concrete to bring to the negotiating table. Attitude is great but most Hiring Managers want people to be able to hit the ground running in today's economic climate. Hence my advice to get 2 years a experience or a demonstrable track record to show a potential employer why they need you. Otherwise, you may come here and spend a lot of money which is currently getting harder to come by and returning home empty handed. Forewarned is forearmed. Sure I arrived here in '82 with a single suitcase and a briefcase and that was it. But I already had a contract in my hand via telex as I was headhunted. (for you youngsters - that was before the advent of the computer and fax machines)

[road.not.taken]

In my industry, it's a menial labour one so educational levels are minimal to say the least. English, rudimentary is okay.

Yes, but the English requirements are probably vastly different than for a career in Marketing or HR? Just a guess....

[ksl]

Long winded post, yeah right, nothing much else to do on a Saturday night in Singapura but drink a couple of Barons and rant on. mmm my jackfruit plants have sprouted 4 out of 10 not bad! 4 inches tall. Fruit in 18 months, so I read!

NRT you are quite right, it would be much of a requirement, in the English speaking sector, of MNC, but having travelled to many of the Chinese exhibitions, the marketing of sales material in English leaves a great deal to be desired about the companies professional attitude. So for marketeers with copy write skills China is the place to be, if your English is in order...it's difficult enough to sell goods, without destroying your reputation and image at the same time with bad sales material, and many do that.

Unfortunately the Chinese don't appear to care so much in spending a few hundred $ to have the job done properly.

[sundaymorningstaple]

In my industry, it's a menial labour one so educational levels are minimal to say the least. English, rudimentary is okay.

Yes, but the English requirements are probably vastly different than for a career in Marketing or HR? Just a guess....

Which is why communication is on my list. My particular employer's needs are not English driven, but mine is a area that doesn't need it. I included it because in most other occupations that deal with other countries or businesses where there is likely to be interaction with others, good communication skills are paramount. Without good English skills (if in an English speaking environment of course) you rapidly lose your credibility.

But I'm not on about English so much as I am about getting something to sell to the employer who is normally looking to hire a solution, not a gamble.

[winger7]

Thanks a lot u guys, both ksl and sms...that was a real good answer sms, you practically answered every single question i've had about moving there. It's always wise to be speaking to senior people. Anyway I suppose 2 years would be reasonable you are right, and speaking of how u arrived to Singapore with a suitcase...but that was back in 82 u said right? Things must be much different and more different now. Sorry but the biggest question I have is even by the time when I do have 2 years of experience, most likely will be customer service...even then, do any firms, MNC or local firms hire people who aren't physically in the country yet? And...what methods would work...websties like jobsdb etc? Agencies don't seem to work...so yea, my biggest concern is how land a job outside of the country. If I can land a job outside of the country I would not need to worry about savings and spending all my money either