What's so bad about sending ours sons to NS???

[Blue Sapphire]

Whenever I mention to a expat friend of our intentions to apply for PR majority of them would jump on the subject of our son going to NS. And I seem to hear alot of people wanting to apply for PR debating on this subject and would think of ways to avoid ever sending their sons.

Are there any disadvantages to NS? Why are some people so against it?

We are expats planning to apply for PR as we see ourselves living here for a very long time. We have a son who is almost 2 years old. He was born here so it looks like he will only know Singapore as his home unless we decide to move elsewhere in the far future.

So I just want to know what the fuss is about?

[jpatokal]

Are there any disadvantages to NS? Why are some people so against it?

Uhh... maybe there's the ever-so-mild disadvantage of spending two years (or more) of the prime of your life digging ditches in a jungle, risking health, life and limb to the whims of some blockheaded lunk yelling at you, instead of, say, getting a university degree?

I can buy the argument that, if you've lived all your life in Singapore and enjoyed its "material benefits" (in the CMPB's turn of phrase), you owe it to the country to do NS. However, from the perspective of the NSman himself, it's hardly the best possible investment of his time.

[sundaymorningstaple]

The vast majority of those who have done NS, whether or not they were for or against prior to serving, have gone on to say that they found it very good for them in a number of ways. Most, who were inclined to pursue academic degrees found themselves getting those degrees anyway so that doesn't really hold any water. As far as furthering their education goes as noted above, my son turned 19 in August but is on a deferment for 5 years while he is enrolled in NAFA. The old beef about the getting a degree doesn't hold water any more and the gahmen have realized it better to take in higher educated recruits to fill out the higher technological positions without spending the governments money to train them.

Oh, considering the networks that I've seen developed over the past 25 years that I've been here, the NS network is as good if not better than the "Old school tie" network ever though about being. As yes, if you have enjoyed being brought up in the relatively safety net of Singapore and have enjoyed the schooling and other socio-economic benefits then yes you owe it to the country as a matter of debt.

[rant]
Two years of your life paying back the freedom you have enjoyed is not a large price to pay. And as I've said many times before, I sure wouldn't want to have to depend on the youth of today or their parents for that matter to protect me as all seem like a bunch of whinging crybabies about how 'the girls' are going to get all the good jobs, yadda, yadda, yadda. Never seen such spoiled brats in my entire life.
[/rant]

My son is prepared to do his NS when he finishes NAFA. He's been well prepared for it as he knows it's his duty. Of course I've always stressed that one should never shirk their duty no matter how unpleasant it may be. It will just make you more resilient and adaptable later in life. I don't regret my time in the military (although I wasn't particularly fond of spending 18 months in the NAM but such is life) I'm a hell of better man for it I can tell you.

[Plavt]

It will just make you more resilient and adaptable later in life.

Not true, a good many ex-regulars I worked with were bigger yobs than anybody else. A recent government survey found even today a good many recruits are totally inadequate when returned to civilian life. However, that might not be true of Singaporeans if they intend to get a degree but NS makes no difference to their ability to study, either they are determined to qualify or not.

[ScoobyDoes]

Whilst technically in favour of NS i wouldn't let my son do it here. Why? He's not now or ever will be a citizen with all the going local rights reserved for those with a SG passport.

For me there is something fundamentally wrong forcing PRs with allegance to a foreign passport, to go off and fight on your behalf.

[sillingw]

For a real change, I agree with SMS. I am PR, my wife son and daughter are Singaporean. We have been here for going on 4 years and have no intention to leave. My son is 5 1/2 and cannot remember much about his past life in the USA. Of the people who work for me and the people I work with, that I have discussed this subject with seem to have the general opinion that aligns greatly with what SMS is saying. I personally feel quite strongly that it is our responsibility, it will not be detrimental, Our family will strongly support him and he should do.

[Wind In My Hair]

Bravo SMS! Well said.

Locally we say that NS is where boys become men.

It's heartwarming to see that the concept of 'giving something back' still lives on. Thanks Blue Sapphire and Sillingw, you made my day.

[smashme1984]

I think that at the end of the day, its all up to the individual's mentality when he enters national service, for the weak or confused minds, things might or might not turn out well upon entering service due to the vast influences he may come in contact with, depending on which unit or vocation he's posted to, the superiors he gets appointed to, and the peers that he's fated to work together with.

A strong minded well brought up kid will withstand the mental tests, bad influence, or turn the bad influences into learning experiences.
Lets face it, a badly maintained car will break down eventually, a matter of time, dont blame that rock, or the rain that triggered it.
So if you've got a good kid, NS wont do harm, might do good.
As for a PR enlisting, thats the price you pay, I guess it builds the sense of belongign and citizenship too, you wanna make this your home, start defending it, and go through the hardship all your other peers go through, weigh the price then, is Singapore that great its worth it? Attack it from all angles.

[local lad]

It will just make you more resilient and adaptable later in life.

Not true, a good many ex-regulars I worked with were bigger yobs than anybody else. A recent government survey found even today a good many recruits are totally inadequate when returned to civilian life. However, that might not be true of Singaporeans if they intend to get a degree but NS makes no difference to their ability to study, either they are determined to qualify or not.

I do not know where you get to read the survey but to my understanding, 'recruits' are soldiers who have yet to complete their line of duty. It takes approx 2 - 2 and a half years to complete before they join the civil world. I have served my time in the army and I have pretty much seen the type of soldiers SAF have. Generally, most soldiers with leadership skills are soldiers with pride on jobs they are working on. Of course, there would be people saying its a waste of time but that is their opinion.

[Saint]

It will just make you more resilient and adaptable later in life.

Not true, a good many ex-regulars I worked with were bigger yobs than anybody else. A recent government survey found even today a good many recruits are totally inadequate when returned to civilian life. However, that might not be true of Singaporeans if they intend to get a degree but NS makes no difference to their ability to study, either they are determined to qualify or not.

I do not know where you get to read the survey but to my understanding, 'recruits' are soldiers who have yet to complete their line of duty. It takes approx 2 - 2 and a half years to complete before they join the civil world. I have served my time in the army and I have pretty much seen the type of soldiers SAF have. Generally, most soldiers with leadership skills are soldiers with pride on jobs they are working on. Of course, there would be people saying its a waste of time but that is their opinion.

Plavt hasn't lived in Singapore and I'm guessing he's trying to compare it to the British regular army Can't really compare the 2 at all.

[DimWit Kid]

Whats so bad? For me, it's illegal for my countrymen to serve in another country's military service.

... it's one of many differences that mine and Singapore has yet to resolve...

[Plavt]

Plavt hasn't lived in Singapore and I'm guessing he's trying to compare it to the British regular army Can't really compare the 2 at all.

Singapore has an army, Britain has an army, what's the difference? Only conscription which means you have poorly motivated recruits.

[Wind In My Hair]

Singapore has an army, Britain has an army, what's the difference?

SMS has hair, I have hair, same difference!

[Plavt]

SMS has hair, I have hair, same difference!

[Saint]

SMS has hair, I have hair, same difference!

And as Plavt reckons the British Army and Singapore NS are the same that means WIMH must be bald!