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Don't they do medicals before NS?

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Don't they do medicals before NS?

Postby Jeppo » Wed, 11 Jun 2008 9:24 am

http://app.sprinter.gov.sg/data/pr/20080610988.htm

A 2 km walk killed him? How unfit/sick would you have to be for that to happen?

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Postby Turtle » Wed, 11 Jun 2008 2:24 pm

It's possible to have heart defects that were not detected during the medical. I don't remember if ECGs are even part of the medical, or whether they test under stress (i.e. running on a treadmill with the nodes attached). It's totally possible for a young, outwardly perfectly normal and healthy person to suddenly pass away with very little stress.

Sadly, the report may well be bogus. Suicides, for example, are very very rarely reported accurately, similarly with "training accidents" where another serviceman (especially a commander) is to blame. It's pretty much an open secret among people who have gone through NS.

R.I.P. Recruit.

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Postby Plavt » Wed, 11 Jun 2008 3:27 pm

Turtle wrote:Sadly, the report may well be bogus. Suicides, for example, are very very rarely reported accurately, similarly with "training accidents" where another serviceman (especially a commander) is to blame.


I agree this happened too many times and something is suspect. Compare Deep Cut barracks in the UK where similar events unfolded. :(

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 11 Jun 2008 5:30 pm

With a few exceptions that have been well documented a few years ago (about over zealous Training Cadre) in the Commando battalions, I think the fact that a large majority of training deaths are due to general inability of recruits to adapt to the heat here. Most young men today are brought up in airconditioned comfort with amah doing all the work and subsequently, due to long hours behind the books where academia are valued more than sports, it tends to make for unfit and stamina lacking youngsters.

I think it is more pronounced here than in other Asian countries only because of the progress this country has enjoyed and the level of comfort due to that progress. It's much easier to watch footy on TV that to actually get out there and play the game yourself.

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Postby local lad » Wed, 11 Jun 2008 6:00 pm

I do not know how relevant the comforts the kids are enjoying now is to their fitness level before hitting the boot camp. If you all remember, not too long ago , commando died after completing the traithlon. Commando ? Died? Aren't commandos the fitness soldier in Singapore Army? :???: Then , there was another student, I think from some elite school, died too? I read that kid came from a well-to-do family and he trained as much as any triathlees do.

:? .....maybe is the weather

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Postby Plavt » Wed, 11 Jun 2008 6:33 pm

sundaymorningstaple wrote:, I think the fact that a large majority of training deaths are due to general inability of recruits to adapt to the heat here. Most young men today are brought up in airconditioned comfort with amah doing all the work and subsequently, due to long hours behind the books where academia are valued more than sports, it tends to make for unfit and stamina lacking youngsters.


I am not sure that the deaths are due to the 'inability of recruits to adapt to the heat' in the absence of any stated facts. Surely one of the functions of training young for active service it to get them fit.

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Postby ksl » Wed, 11 Jun 2008 10:38 pm

Plavt wrote:
sundaymorningstaple wrote:, I think the fact that a large majority of training deaths are due to general inability of recruits to adapt to the heat here. Most young men today are brought up in airconditioned comfort with amah doing all the work and subsequently, due to long hours behind the books where academia are valued more than sports, it tends to make for unfit and stamina lacking youngsters.


I am not sure that the deaths are due to the 'inability of recruits to adapt to the heat' in the absence of any stated facts. Surely one of the functions of training young for active service it to get them fit.


Unfortunately getting people fit, kills, if they have a slight heart defect, it is by no means rare, even pro football players have keeled over and died.
http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,, ... 70,00.html

In Singapore, it is even more easy to keel over out of exhaustion and dehydration, without even realising it, if one is not conditioned to the heat and humidity.
Humidity makes you sweat much more than dry heat, and I've been close to passing out myself on more than one occasion, so I take a bottle with me even on a 5km run now.

No facts yet, and i don't believe recruits are checked for faulty hearts, or a medical under stress conditions, they are only given a routine medical, the cheapest possible, to satisfy the requirements, the requirements wouldn't change, for only one or two deaths. 20 maybe! It's a rare occurrence, when you compare how many are going through the mill.

However SMS i think is right, not many are acclimatised to the weather conditions here, and try to stay in air conditioned areas, which does have a large impact on the body, if having to do something out of the ordinary

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Postby sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 11 Jun 2008 11:47 pm

I think the reason it makes bigger headlines here is that in most countries it "training accidents" as opposed to unassisted keeling over and dying type of deaths. Who knows, after 2 decades of easy living in airconditioned comfort, it may well have created genetic dispositions that are predisposed to heart failure when pushed to the limits or for that matter just some exertion. In this case, from what I understand the guy was overweight to start with.

I'm not dissing anybody here, but when you think that asians are asians all over SE and NE Asia and Singapore has the highest incidence of myopia of any country in the world, how do you explain it? Genetic? The previous generations weren't that high. So it would have to be environmental or social causes then, would it not?

If myopia is caused by lifestyle (read again, academia - where all parents push their kids - mine pushed me outdoors - go milk the cows and this at 3:30 am!) then why couldn't hidden heart problems also be caused by sedentary lifestyles? The kid also had asthma as a child as well. Was it noted in his medical history? I don't know. But the incidences of death here versus training accidents is skewed the opposite way than most military peacetime deaths. (Or at least the ones we see making it into print anyway).

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Postby Jeppo » Fri, 13 Jun 2008 8:46 am


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Postby Matney » Fri, 13 Jun 2008 12:38 pm

Not disrespect intended, but this didn't make the newspapers here in Brunei. They seem to be more worried about the Sultan's birthday coming up in July!
Oh, and Prince Jeffrey's arrest warrant.

I'd have to agree with SMS's argument on the reasons why this is happening.

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Postby sourisso » Fri, 13 Jun 2008 1:40 pm

Jeppo wrote:And another one bites the dust

http://app.sprinter.gov.sg/data/pr/20080612993.htm


now you are quite happy you didn't have to serve, right ? :?

i dunno about you guys, but im fit and always did a lot of sport and worked my endurance, but if i had to run in the jungle here with heavy clothes and boots and bags i would probably feel quite bad or faint due do the weather :? (i can manage to jog here without too much problems but with very light clothing and full of water, and certainly not as efficient as back in my country)

and i agree with SMS on the sedentary lifestyle + certain food habits, it has terrible effects

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Postby ksl » Fri, 13 Jun 2008 3:28 pm

sourisso wrote:
Jeppo wrote:And another one bites the dust

http://app.sprinter.gov.sg/data/pr/20080612993.htm


now you are quite happy you didn't have to serve, right ? :?

i dunno about you guys, but im fit and always did a lot of sport and worked my endurance, but if i had to run in the jungle here with heavy clothes and boots and bags i would probably feel quite bad or faint due do the weather :? (i can manage to jog here without too much problems but with very light clothing and full of water, and certainly not as efficient as back in my country)

and i agree with SMS on the sedentary lifestyle + certain food habits, it has terrible effects


On military exercises deaths happen very often, and before any exercise is cancelled, the death rate is in double figures, if it's a Nato exercise, before any drastic steps are taken. People get run over, crushed by tank turrets turning, and all kinds of accidents, as well human heart failure. deaths are rated on a percentage of the participents involved, in the exercise. if abnormally high, the exercise maybe cancelled for investigations.

Death awaits us all, and it can be avoided, if you are aware of the fact, because then you beome more careful, doing the things you are doing, be it changing an electrical plug, or crossing the road. If you don't think what you are doing, your life may wll be a short one.

I have also known guys to drop dead on a route march, almost always a defect heart or genetic problem, it's quite sad, that it happens, and i also worry with my own child, when it comes to excessive exercise, the heart is really pounding out of the chest.

Normal for a child, but still very dangerous if the medical history is not known. I have already said, to my wife, that i would like to have her heart checked, for no other reason, than peace of mind.

Kids also need to understand, not to exert themselves at the 100% level, they could drop dead quite easy, if extending the pressure of 100% activity level over 30 seconds or more, without any training for it.

The heart is a muscle, that can be shocked into cramps, or irregular beating, if not trained for exercise in a controlled manner.

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Postby sourisso » Fri, 13 Jun 2008 3:49 pm

yep... i know very well about this, having myself a problem on my heart (irregular beating that only disappear when i make a long effort), and i have to do sport to keep it strong... and my mum having a bit more serious problem too... (and my dad having had 4 brain aneurysms ruptures, but thats another problem)

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Postby ksl » Fri, 13 Jun 2008 4:16 pm

sourisso wrote:yep... i know very well about this, having myself a problem on my heart (irregular beating that only disappear when i make a long effort), and i have to do sport to keep it strong...
Good that you know, because you may well live longer, fitness is not measured in how far, or how fast you can run, it is measured, by the hearts recovery time only.

So a guy that believes he is fit because he can run the military run, within the time limit, proves nothing, other than he passed the test laid down. If the heart is not settled to its normal beat, say within 5 to 10 minutes, after a run at 70% intensity, then one is not fit.

To put it another way, a sprinter of 100 meters, at maximum speed, needs to see his heart beat drop. about 20 to 30 beats, within 30 seconds, to show fitness level.

If it takes longer than 30 seconds for the heart to drop 20 or 30 beats, after maximum speed then the persons condition is not classified as fit.. this is just a general guideline, by the way, and I know because when i run myself, I use the guideline for fitness, which searched out on one of the pro running websites.

If I don't run for 3 weeks, my condition falls drastically to the beginning, or if i am hit with a cold or flue, my condition is also hit badly...but I can also remain fit, by two runs a week, and the recovery rate of the heart, will drop, the 20 beats, in 30 seconds. With full recovery within 5 minutes after a jog. So fitness is measured on the hearts recovery rate, more than anything else.

I had my heart checked 100% at Mount Elizabeth heart specialist because i was worried of my normal heart beat of only 40 beats a minute!

The complete check up was around 350 $ I believe, including scans and tread mill, but well worth it, for peace of mind if competing against oneself! But I was also advised to slow down, because at my age, it wasn't normal to be super fit, she was comparing my fitness, to that of pro footballers and olympic athletes with heart beats so low.

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Postby sourisso » Fri, 13 Jun 2008 4:37 pm

i see.... i don't know as much as you on the subject, i wish, as i would obviously find interest in it for myself (i know mostly about workout, muscles chrono-nutrition etc)


40 beats a minute, indeed ! Does it help keeping a strong effort going ?
Mine is much much faster :?


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