Downloading Questions

[garnet4david]

Hi all, i got several question about downloading in Singapore:

1. Is it legal to download Doujin (Japanese Games but not porn games) in Singapore? The company sell the software, but the company itself uses copyrighted character. As what i know, it is legal to download something that is not copyrighted right?

2. If i use subscribe plan like Singnet or Strahub, will they trace me too? (Of course The dumbest thing is to downlod using wireless@sg).

3. How if i use a download manager, for example i am downloading Anime (Japanese Animation Movie) until 99%, then i finsih the other 1% at other place? I think i saw an ad on a DVD movie which shows that as long as you download something up to 99% and you cancel it thats mean you are clean. Is that true? How if i download up to 99% and finish the last 1 % elsewhere?

4. As long as the japanese animation is not licensed yet, can i download it legally? It is a fansub.

5. Is it safe to use emule or torrent in Singapore?

Thank you for reading my questions, i hope someone will give me an asnwer. Thank you very much.

[jpatokal]

1. Is it legal to download Doujin (Japanese Games but not porn games) in Singapore? The company sell the software, but the company itself uses copyrighted character. As what i know, it is legal to download something that is not copyrighted right?

No, distributing pirated goods is a crime.

2. If i use subscribe plan like Singnet or Strahub, will they trace me too? (Of course The dumbest thing is to downlod using wireless@sg).

They can trace you if they have reason to.

3. How if i use a download manager, for example i am downloading Anime (Japanese Animation Movie) until 99%, then i finsih the other 1% at other place? I think i saw an ad on a DVD movie which shows that as long as you download something up to 99% and you cancel it thats mean you are clean. Is that true? How if i download up to 99% and finish the last 1 % elsewhere?

You've got to be kidding me -- of course it's illegal. Or do you want to try bringing in 99% of a fake Louis Vuitton bag or 99% of a carton of cigarettes?

4. As long as the japanese animation is not licensed yet, can i download it legally? It is a fansub.

No. In fact, there's a company called Odex currently suing people left and right for this, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odex .

5. Is it safe to use emule or torrent in Singapore?

No, it's not categorically safe. Some people, mostly at universities, have been busted for it. If you don't draw attention to yourself, whether you're going to get caught for it is another matter.

[sundaymorningstaple]

garnet4david,

Ever since you joined this forum, your main thrust has always been geared to the illegally downloading of material of one type or another from the internet. Before you arrived here these were your questions as well. We do not condone illegal acts on this forum. Maybe these kinds of questions you should direct to some warez site. Here you will not find any satisfaction at all if it is basically illegal and I am sure you know what is illegal or not as you were able to find this site, register and ask questions.

[garnet4david]

Hi thanks for replyinh my message. Hmm i guess i wont be able to play doujin games there T_T.

@sundaymorningstaple, no i guess it is not illegal in some counties. But ever since i heard that Singapore has a very stritch law, i must ask this questions to some Singaporeans. As for Warez site, i dont join them, since i think Doujin games is not part of Warez community but Anime Lover instead. The notice from the doujin website is "Do not install this game if you live in a country where you can buy Doujin Games". I guess they only sell doujin games in Japan, but still i just want to make sure.

@jpatokal,
- Is streaming video illegal there?
- Do you know any websites that explain all about downloading rules in Singapore? I guess i wont be able to download naruto for a while.
- If i download a music from yahoo.com.cn (Just goto music.yahoo.com.cn and you get a music search engine) is it legal or illegal?

Thank you very much for your reply. I must learn the Singapore law before i arrive there this mid sept.

[ukdesigner]

Legality in downloading is very simple to understand... in any country.

If you buy an item from a site... its legal (supposing the site has the rights - but thats a different question) so if you BUY music from yahoo then that's fine.

If you download something from a torrent site etc then that is more than likely illegal as the items there tend to be for distribution from copyrighted sources.

Streaming video is legal as long as you don't try to use additional software to rip it. Again this comes down to copyright.

To help you fully understand I have provided this link for you http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright

What I don't understand is you don't seem to be aware of any laws anywhere! The laws of Singapore relating to the internet are pretty international and also common sense. What you seem to lack is the common sense part I'm afraid.

If you are unsure then don't do it. By all means go onto torrent sites, downloads hundreds of gigs of stuff and then maybe / maybe not get caught and asked to leave. Your choice.

I'm not trying to be rude but as sms says you have been asking quite alot of questions relating to illegal downloading. If you don't have the basic understanding of common sense laws (those laws that you use for self governing) then maybe you should stay where you are as you surely do not seem to have a comprehension of basic right and wrong.

[garnet4david]

I am sorry about this haha. Well different coutries mean different law. Ok thank you for ur answer UK i think it answered my questions. I am living in a country where copyright law is blur. For example You can see Norway or China. Yahoo.com.cn even provide MP3 search engine which allows you to download Mp3 songs directly from other site. Well ok i think i will only just streaming video and not gonna rip it so its ok hahhaa.

By asking this kind of questions do not mean that i am a law blind guy, i know about law but since evey country has different law, we must adapt to them. I know what is right and what is wrong, but there is no exact line for what is right or what is wrong hehe. Is Robin Hood did the wrong thing? Of course he knew that robbing people is violating the law. But is it right? I dont know hahaha.

Ok let stay away from this topic, thank you for your participation. It has been very clear to me now.

[jpatokal]

- Is streaming video illegal there?
- Do you know any websites that explain all about downloading rules in Singapore? I guess i wont be able to download naruto for a while.
- If i download a music from yahoo.com.cn (Just goto music.yahoo.com.cn and you get a music search engine) is it legal or illegal?

It's very, very simple: viewing or having in your possession any material distributed without the permission of the copyright holder is illegal in Singapore. If Yahoo allows you to stream music, then presumably it has the copyright holder's permission to do so.

As for Norway (I presume you're referring to Pirate Bay, which is actually Swedish), under Swedish law it's perfectly legal to host BitTorrent files, which don't contain any copyrighted content. It's still a crime almost anywhere to use that file to download copyrighted content.

Fow what it's worth, my personal opinion that the copyright system is an evil perversion that must be destroyed, but I follow up on my philosophy by using free software (Linux, OpenOffice, Gimp, Inkscape etc) and contributing to free projects (Wikitravel, Wikipedia, etc).

[ukdesigner]

For what it's worth, my personal opinion that the copyright system is an evil perversion that must be destroyed,

JP I must disagree with you about this. As someone who does produce copyrighted material i.e. my own design work I fully understand the need to protect that work. A film/musice/software whatever it may be has had someones sweat, time and more than likely countless sleepless nights when producing it. I believe that they have the right to protect their work whilst being able to charge a "moderate" fee.

I'm not going to have a full-blown argument because that's your opinion and I respect it. What I will say to partially agree with you is that the costs that the companies charge for these 'copyrighted' materials are exhorbitant and in fact if they dropped the prices not only would they sell more but would also help to reduce pirating at the same time. As usual they have a very narrow view on these kind of things and try to rip the customer off. Look at Britain. They don't call it rip-off britain for nothing!!

As Asia is a major thorn in their side you'd think that they would look at a strategy to counteract the massive counter fitting that goes on but they can't seem to look past the bottom line of what they charge elsewhere in the world rather than a specific aim for Asia.

With free software becoming more readily accessible (although it has been around a long time) it wont be long before the big boys suddenly cotton on. Surely Linux is taking a bite out of microsoft as will google with their office suite to name a few. Due to my work I have to buy the latest software but have found a major difference in cost for it in comparison to the UK. In actual fact the UK price was nearly TWICE the price than here in Singapore.

The games industry also complain about the illegal downloading of the software but again surely why does a game cost so much. With all the latest technology at their disposal they could employ companies locally (under licence) to re-produce their CD's and ship it. This again would reduce costs to the consumer and also make it cheaper but they still want to maintain their profit level and to meet their shareholders targets. I'm afraid that the people who suffer and yet who are to blame are us. If we keep on buying their stuff at the prices that they rigidly enforce worldwide then more fool us. It'll only be when they don't sell something that they will realise that they got it well wrong and need to rethink their strategy.

Anyway... I've had my little rant for the night now.. so will shut-up and bid you goodnight.

[garnet4david]

Wow different people means different opinion / law knowledge. Some said that yahoo music search engine is illegal while some said it its totally legal. Some said video streaming is violating the law while some said it don't. Well i am getting confuse now, why do people pay for high speed internet while they can only use it for reading news and browsing friendster hehehe.

So youtube is illegal? So i shouldn't stream youtube? If there is a site that provide mp3, and i just open it on windows media player (Streaming), is it violating the law again? And as for the game, if my friend has game and i borrow it, is it wrong?

Sorry if you want to say i dont have basic understanding about law, but as i said before the law in my country is blurry, so i just dont want to take my blurry law understanding into Singapore haha. As in my country the one that is violating the law is the one who mass copy, distribute, or selling pirated products, not the consumer. The consumer is the victims, so strange rite hahaha.

[Plavt]

I think you either need to learn to read or comprehend the law nobody said borrowing or streaming was illegal; in all the post you have made (those I have seen at any rate), you have talked about downloading copyrighted software without paying for it. At least that's how it looks. That mate is theft! Comprehende?

[jpatokal]

For what it's worth, my personal opinion that the copyright system is an evil perversion that must be destroyed,

JP I must disagree with you about this.

I was exaggerating slightly for effect but, to be a tiny bit more specific, I think the copyright system is broken in many, many ways. To name a few: the fact that copyright persists after the death of the creator; the fact that copyright persists in abandonware (software no longer sold by a company), yet nobody else is allowed to use it; the fact that the ideas of "fair use" or "sampling" are not enshrined as rights; etc.

Copyleft licenses like Creative Commons address these shortcomings and still allow people to make a living from their work.

The games industry also complain about the illegal downloading of the software but again surely why does a game cost so much. With all the latest technology at their disposal they could employ companies locally (under licence) to re-produce their CD's and ship it.

Smart companies have already moved online: the games are cheap or free, and people pay for connecting to the server and playing. Much smarter for everybody involved. Other software is slowly moving in the same direction.

[ukdesigner]

ok, I agree with you in that case.

Sorry if I came across as a bit harsh in my criticism.

[garnet4david]

Hahaha its a deep talk. Frankly speaking law is made by human thats why it sometimes confusing me and it also sometimes feel unfair. Jp i thought you mentioned online gaming rite? Its not totally free, they rip off our pocket by sipping our money through monthly fee. Its even worse than offline gaming. Well i never play online gaming, for me playing games mean paying only once and not every month. So streaming youtube is legal rite? Is downloading from private site is safe? Streaming music from yahoo search engine is legal rite? Nah even one of most well known music industry's CEO said "There is no perfect way to reduce piracy unless the company agree to reduce the price as low as the pirated one (He said this one reagrding the release of HD-DVD and Blue-RAY)". Even some hackers can hacked the HD-DVD system already. We are ECONomic people "Low Price ,but High Quality" and so do the company "Low Cost, but High Profit". So they only way to solve this is by making both parties meet at the equilibrium point rite? Hahahaha

[jpatokal]

Jp i thought you mentioned online gaming rite? Its not totally free, they rip off our pocket by sipping our money through monthly fee. Its even worse than offline gaming. Well i never play online gaming, for me playing games mean paying only once and not every month.

Games cost money to make. Somebody has to pay that money!

So streaming youtube is legal rite? Is downloading from private site is safe? Streaming music from yahoo search engine is legal rite?

If the copyright holder has given permission, it's legal. Otherwise it's not legal.

Do you understand? It doesn't matter if you're using a l33t d00d pirate warez site, YouTube, Yahoo search, eDonkey, BitTorrent, carrier pigeons, smoke signals or a series of carefully modulated farts. The only thing that matters is whether whatever you'd trying to download was put there legitimately or not.

[ukdesigner]

I think you are wasting your time JP. The OP doesn't understand the concept of what legal is, copyright, ownership or anything else etc etc.

To OP:
I suggest you do as you wish. Obviously you have no understanding of what is legal ownership and what isn't. Basically when you arrive, I'm gonna steal the keys to your house. I will then sit in your lounge, put the air con at full blast all day and all night and then leave. I'll then come and do that everyday and not pay for it. I am stealing your electricity and making you pay for it. Why should I pay for it. As you want to steal from everybody else then expect it to be done to yourself. That is called THEFT. What you are doing is theft. If the owner of any item / product / service / whatever it may be, has not given you permission to watch, view, edit or use it anyway then that is THEFT. What you are trying to do is steal it. If you wish to stay legal then stick to the BIG NAME global websites that will have permission to stream the item you are viewing or allow you to download the item for a moderate fee. They are the LEGAL sites. You are looking at the ILLEGAL sites.

This concept applies worldwide and is not just limited to this country. It also says alot about your own morales if you are prepared to steal somebody elses hardwork. Don't you wish to get paid at the end of the month for what you have done. Well so do they. How are they going to put food on their table when people like you STEAL from them.

Good luck in your ventures and I hope you don't get caught, put in jail or removed from the country.