God Existance: Yes or No

[Wind In My Hair]

./. and WIMH......

what are you guys talking about? Are we still discussing about the "existance of god" ?

I like to read the Conversation with God, but something happen that I would like to share with you guys ....

I was interested in the CWG so I check onto their website http://www.cwg.org thinking that I can download a copy for free since (u know) this is sort of a Christian self-help book (aka bible) that mostly will be given free donwload. But NO!..... I have to pay $40 for the Complete Conversation with GOD! I thought this book is the soup for the soul for spreading the good news about God.

They need our money?

Anyway, I decided not to buy it and I search reading the comment from Neale (the author) to devour his God Msg as much as I can . Here is one news letter from Neale:

He says.....

My Dear Friends,

When I lived on the street (which I did, as you know, for the better part of a year), I used to go around asking people for quarters. I figured that if I could get a quarter a day from most of the people I asked, I could survive.

Today I'm asking you for a quarter. In fact, I'm asking if you could be kind enough to let go of a quarter a day, every day, to help me place the message of Conversations with God into the world.

According to San Francisco Chronicle (—Rabbi Michael LernerDecember 20-26, 1998) 2 million people already bought the book at $22.95 (not sure today). Movie deal + royalties from books + donation from readers = money for spreading the message of Conversations with God into the world....... something is fishy here. It is almost like using your donation to promote my product. Nice.

Kurozu,

First of all yes, we are still talking about God. Just that perhaps your understanding of God is a person sitting on some throne in a cloud, for example. Meaning, you have a certain conception of God and so it now doesn't seem like we are talking about that 'person'. If you could understand God to be more than that eg Truth, a Force, Beyond Time, 'All That Is' etc, this would make more sense.

As for CWG, I haven't researched enough to comment on where the money goes. But from what I can see: $40 for a set of 3 books is hardly unreasonable, and asking for donations to help those who can't afford it doesn't mean offering the books for free to all.

Most organisations charge full price for their products or services and use part of the profits towards charitable causes. Even churches charge fees for conducting programs and put a price on published materials to help cover the cost of those.

Anyway, if it goes against your principles, don't buy it, don't read it. But don't try to get it on the cheap either. And certainly not from me - I don't have Nose's patience to scan a few pages to post here for your sampling. If you really want to, you can do what some stingy people do and stand in Borders reading the books there all day, free of charge.

[Wind In My Hair]

Are you two both talking about the right "Other Forum"? ./. is commonly found on Singapore-Forum, whereas you're normally on Sgexpat.

I was just curious how Nose knew I was away. I think I only mentioned it on the 'other forum'.

[germangirl]

I was interested in the CWG so I check onto their website http://www.cwg.org thinking that I can download a copy for free since (u know) this is sort of a Christian self-help book (aka bible) that mostly will be given free donwload. But NO!..... I have to pay $40 for the Complete Conversation with GOD! I thought this book is the soup for the soul for spreading the good news about God.

I remeber last christmas, they had the bible "on sale" for only 7 Euro (14S$).... it's crazy man ! I mean, of course, it has to printed, the paper costs money etc.... but sitll.... paying for the word of god?
Also I remeber a few years back during holidays, I wanted to go into a cathedral... they actually had opening hours and a cashier sitting at the entrance... was only 1 Euro (2Dollar), but still, paying, to go into a church? Is this really, what god wants?

[huggybear]

well, they need money for the maintenance of the church buildings no? however i didn't realize there was a church tax in germany.

[germangirl]

well, they need money for the maintenance of the church buildings no? however i didn't realize there was a church tax in germany.

oh, there is... but you can get away from it, if you officially "resign"from church (don't get the right word for it... hope you understand !). But then you are also not allowed to get married in a church etc....
It's like 8 % from your income tax payed monthly (which is pretty high in germany)

[Wind In My Hair]

SMS, I must say you are duty-bound to delete your previous post, since it has nothing to do with the subject at hand. Aha, hoist by your own petard! done

As for those who think anything related to God should be free: perhaps in an ideal world this would be so, where those who could afford it pay their fair share and more, so that those who can't afford it would have access to the same things.

Unfortunately the world is not ideal and many who can afford it prefer to be free riders if they could get away with it. Hence taxes are imposed by governments, and charges imposed by churches. Of course both governments and churches sometimes abuse their position, but that doesn't change the fundamental necessities. What's so difficult to understand about that?

[./.]

SMS thanks much for cleaning that up...

I also believe, that the brain = mind = 100% potential schizophrenics, that are measureable from borderline, to the burnt out, my theory is also borne out by the articles in yesterdays paper, whereby Singapore is worried that 1 in 4 are Schizophrenics and it's likely to get worse.

There are many factors involved, which are presently being studied in the USA mostly are young people, that have been in active service, I can relate to it, in many ways, becuase I have since discovered that the temporal lobe is not fully mature until in the twenties, and these young men are exposed to traumatic sights, and have to kill, to survive. Well if the brain=mind is not fully developed, what kind of people are we creating here!

If this is at all true, then we are breeding some sick mother----ers, through exposure to video games and TV, like from one dream to another!

Wars are the results of Egos negative energy gone wild. Killing machines, don't just stop killing, although it doesn't matter how bloody or messy one dies what you are seeing is the primitive past, it hasn't changed, only your world changed, it's just death and out of death comes life, there is nothing else, but the male function of securing his family tree! Kind of a primitive joke!

All people are capable of schizophrenia, which many will not believe, they think it to be a genetic mistake, rather than a fact of life, that overload of negative stress and traumas, will send you that way. No different to the computer and a virus.

I think one will find that all humans are susceptible to computer overload, many are in fact, able to communicate with god and many can also see, into the furture, the danger of travelling inside the mind, is that one is not always able to get back, it is negative overload from the outside that can question the inside.

There is a need to become one, with the cosmos, it's all part of the game, but we never get the message, until it's too late, and the self destruct button goes off! and the process will repeat itself, when the environment is repaired Mmm! Interesting

./. says: Some peer reviewed research being done indicates that at such moments, the brain cells themselves are transformed to something better

or worse!

Temporal Lobe Development:While this work suggests a wave of brain white matter development that flows from front to back, animal, functional brain imaging and postmortem studies have suggested that gray matter maturation flows in the opposite direction, with the frontal lobes not fully maturing until young adulthood. To confirm this in living humans, the UCLA researchers compared MRI scans of young adults, 23-30, with those of teens, 12-16.4 They looked for signs of myelin, which would imply more mature, efficient connections, within gray matter

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/Publicat/teenbrain.cfm

Excellent post KSL, couldn't agree more.

./. and WIMH......

what are you guys talking about? Are we still discussing about the "existance of god" ?

What WIMH said...

--

SMS, WIMH, sgexpat is the one I mean.

[Kurozu]

Dear WIMH,

I have nothing against religious institutions begging for money. But I do have something against ppl who make use of religion as a way to earn money to carry out their own luxurious lifestyle. The so-called followers of faith like Rev Jesse Jackson for example are using tax exemption and donation to make themselves millionairs.

From the quote I showed you, CWG is asking donations from you to promote his own book to those poor people, and those poor people has to buy his book at $40. CWG did not use the money to give it to the poor people for free, did he? I did a search on CWG, no free charity! That is why I am saying it smells fishy!

Btw, "God will Provide" to those who have faith. It seems to me that they have lost it already.

Yes you are right, reality is reality, even a priest has to eat.

Mother Thereas, (god bless her kind soul), is the only person whose faith is so strong and pure that even though she died penniless and poor, her spirit and soul still remain strong in our hearts. Maybe this is the "GOD" we are all talking about. Or maybe this is immortality.

[Wind In My Hair]

Mother Thereas, (god bless her kind soul), is the only person whose faith is so strong and pure that even though she died penniless and poor, her spirit and soul still remain strong in our hearts. Maybe this is the "GOD" we are all talking about. Or maybe this is immortality.

Amen to that! Mother Teresa is my hero.

If you feel that way about CWG, then you're right not to buy it. For me, I'm fine with it as a commercial offering, and the pearls of wisdom I've gained from reading the series is worth more than $40 to me.

As for getting rich from religion... I personally think that if one deliberately uses religion to get rich, that's morally dubious. However, if one genuinely tried to discuss religion and got wealth as a happy by-product, I'm ok with it.

[Kurozu]

You are very positive in everything.

Anyway, I am off the topic.
I must concentrate on the main topic.

I hope others will post something like CWG. If there is an epiphany regarding this subject, please do not feel ashame to speak up.

[mark777]

try asking for the Holy Spirit...as when you recieve it you speak in tongues

[phil30k]

I believe that in the course of a person's life they will come across things they cannot understand. They use mysticism as a helpful means to fit that into their world view so they can continue with their lives without it nagging at them.

I also believe that there comes a time when the evidence is sufficiently preponderous that they re-examine, refine or replacing their brand of mysticism to keep it in line with their world view.

Also I think Aethists are just people who worship science.

[GordonGekko]

On your question, I can only answer YES.
There is still a more interesting questions - namely, "what/who is God?" or "what do you mean by the term 'God'?".
I do not believe in a man with a white beard sitting on a cloud, but I think there is rules/mechanisms/reasons in this universe that reach beyond our understanding.

[Wind In My Hair]

I do not believe in a man with a white beard sitting on a cloud, but I think there is rules/mechanisms/reasons in this universe that reach beyond our understanding.

Ditto.

[reds]

well, they need money for the maintenance of the church buildings no? however i didn't realize there was a church tax in germany.

oh, there is... but you can get away from it, if you officially "resign"from church (don't get the right word for it... hope you understand !). But then you are also not allowed to get married in a church etc....
It's like 8 % from your income tax payed monthly (which is pretty high in germany)

Switzerland has the same system- I was told on moving to Switzerland, I couldn't have a Christian funeral in Switzerland or be burried in a Swiss graveyard if I didn't pay the tax. It didn't really bother me - I was happy to be thrown into a cement kiln as a source of alternative fuel , but it certainly freaked out the HR dept-apparently nobody had ever declined to pay the tax prior to me joining the company!
At any rate, human beings were all created as an inferior form of life to provide cheap labour for gold mining by some highly evolved aliens who landed on earth a couple of million years ago or so the theory goes according to Michael Tellinger, author of Slave species to God! Considering the behaviour of most homo sapiens, I believe him!!