National Service Deferment Procedure in Singapore.

[Mad Scientist]

Hi Mad Scientist, thanks for your quick response.
I really appreciate it.

Yes, he applied exit permit which will expire mid 2012.

So what do you want to do ? Defer until 18 then serve NS or defer till 21 and not serving NS which means renounce SG citizenship ?

[mom2011]

I prefer for him to defer until 21 pending renunciation because we have no plan to move back to Singapore.
In the meantime, we don't plan to give up singapore citizenship ourselves if we don't have to. even if we want, it will be quite a few years before we can apply for one.

[Mad Scientist]

I prefer for him to defer until 21 pending renunciation because we have no plan to move back to Singapore.
In the meantime, we don't plan to give up singapore citizenship ourselves if we don't have to. even if we want, it will be quite a few years before we can apply for one.

In order to make this plan set in motion, all of you need to acquire the foreign citizenship asap. As you are PR of a foreign country , the protection given to you by the foreign country is under the purview of SG Gahmen. Hence if you give up SG Citizenship for your child, he becomes stateless.
PR does not mean you are the citizen of that country. PR can be ceased or denied by any country if you are found to be undesirable immigrant.
You cannot only renounce your child SG citizenship only . Mindef does not take this kindly and your child request for deferment till 21 prior renounciation maybe denied. It has to be in a family nucleus
It is either all of you or NONE at all.
It is either here or there. You cannot take the best of both world and not having your child serve NS. It does not work that way.
If your foreign citizenship can only be acquired in five years time then I think the chance of your child to defer to 21 is almost impossible.
You can decide to make your child avoid NS totally and not follow the protocol set by Mindef but do not let him set one foot in SG as he will be classified as NS defaulters which will be 3 years jail or 10 K fine or both

[mom2011]

Hi Mad Scientist, thank you so much for taking the time to answer all my questions in such detail.
I will definitely take your advice and plan what we will do next.
thanks again!

[am1live]

The following has been provided by Petales Soufflez with thanks.


I contacted CMPB recently as I have an almost 12-year old boy who has dual citizenship, but who has never held a Singapore NRIC, passport or attended school in Singapore.

CMPB advised that I can only apply for Deferment from NS for the boy after he turns 13. Of course I have to announce the boy's intention to renounce his Singapore citizenship at the age of 21 at the same time.

IF they grant the deferment, I will then have to apply for an exit permit for the boy if we do not live in Singapore. There will be no bond required in this case and the exit permit will be posted to our overseas address.

"NATIONAL SERVICE DEFERMENT

1. Please refer to your email dated 26 Jun 2008 regarding your request for your son to be granted deferment from National Service (NS) till his age of 21 years, pending the renunciation of his Singapore citizenship.

2. Under the Singapore Constitution, Singapore citizens may renounce their Singapore citizenship after reaching the age of 21. NS-liable males below 21 years old can apply for deferment from NS till 21 years of age, pending the renunciation of their Singapore citizenship. Any request for deferment can only be assessed if the NS-liable male is aged 13 years and above. As your son has yet to reach the age of 13, we are unable to process your request at this point in time.

3. We wish to remind you that all NS-liable persons aged 13 and above who have not completed full-time NS are required to have an Exit Permit if they wish to remain overseas for periods spanning three months or longer."

You know what they say, when in doubt - ask. I was under the impression before that that the thing to do would be to not let the child enter Singapore between the age of 13 and 21 (when he could then renounce his citizenship). Mistake - as this would mean staying away without exit permission and he would then become an NS defaulter. Not only would he not be able to renounce his Singapore citizenship without doing NS but he would be handcuffed etc upon arrival at the airport.

I must thank this forum for clearing some of the air and especially to SMS for his replies. Everyone has a different situation, the best thing to do is check with CMPB directly. They will not bite you and never asked me for my NRIC number etc during our exchange.

Hi there - since your boy must be over 13 years old now, wondering if CMPB allowed u to defer NS pending renounciation. Your story and its outcome would be really informative for a lot of worried parents in same boat. Thanks a lot for sharing

[am1live]

OkLah/PHK - wondering if either of u had any success in being able to renounce your minor child's citizenship successfully based on the process decribed below.
also how old was ur child when u and ur spouse renounced citizenship?

PHK, just courier your son's Sg passport from overseas with a cover letter stating intent to renounce and enclosing evidence of you and your spouse renunciation of Sg citizenship and/or PR. That was what I did. Got a reply letter back from Ms Pang stating that she had passed the passports to the Passports Unit 'for their necessary action'. I had at first tried to return my sons' passports in person at ICA but was given the run around and finally a Malay lady officer handed the passports back to me and told me that they do not accept return of Singapore passports for purposes other than renunciation. She advised me to just keep them and let them expire if we were not going to use them again.

Folks,

I have been off this web site for a while but I am pleased to come back and see the excellent work that people like SundayMorningStaple and MadScientist continue to do...

Now, I also have a US born son with US Passport + Right of Entry stamp and a Singapore Passport that will expire around his 10th birthday (we will not renew). Since we no longer use the valid Singapore Passport, I thought at his current age of 6 years and 9 months we should return it to ICA. However, upon submitting a ICA feedback form, I was informed via email, and phone call follow-up, by a Mr Salleh Bin Masjor in ICA Passport Division that I can not return it to have it cancelled or surrenderd. When I asked him what would happen if I just mailed it in with a cover letter advising that I wanted it cancelled, he advised me that ICA would simply mail it back to me not canceled and indicating the same as what he advises. Anybody have any experience with this...

So now with a 6 years 9 months old boy, we plan on being out of Singapore within a few years, should I send in the "Intention to renounce letter" now while he is still very young or is it safer to wait until we actually leave Singapore? From what I read from MadScientist above, we best wait until we are out of Singapore I guess, just wish there was a way to let them know but I guess they can make things difficult for us while we are still here...

Sure would like to know if anybody has advice for us, other than what I already know and have posted in a list on this site, as I already see so much new matierial that I was unaware of since I last visited this forumn.... thank you for your time!

[PHK]

am1live,

My son is only +7 now, we have another 2 - 3 years to go before we leave Singapore, so we have not actually gone though the process but my previous postings of items to consider, right of entry stamp in foreign passport, not collecting PinkIC, intention to renounce and other things also brought about by MadScientist still hold valid.

The one thing I can tell you for sure is that the Singapore Government is fully aware of some people that hold Dual Citizenship and they tend to look the other way, not enforce the laws, as they would prefer that you kept your CPF money here and have your son's serve NS.

My wife's relative actually all immigrated overseas when both son's were in Secondary school. They tried to get NS exempted by supplying all family member's new foreign passport documents and the request was rejected. One of their son's is about to fly back to serve NS and the other one has completed OCS and is a 2nd Lieutenant coming close to his ORD date already.

The funny thing was their mother still uses the Singapore Passport to enter Singapore, foreign passport to enter domicile, and the government has copies of her foreign passport with the exemption request but do not enforce the dual citizenship laws against her, perhaps, because both of her son's are serving NS.

All this is a very personal issue, I have no trouble leaving Singapore early enough and asking for son's exemption, as most of my wife's relatives in Singapore are almost all gone and we will not have anything to tie us to this country so if we can legally get exempted, then we will certainly do so.

To each his own... good luck!

[cary28]

Hi, I am new to this forum and will have to face this issue of NS liability for my son, who will be turning 14 this year. I am hoping that someone on the forum can provide some valuable insight to our situation.

My wife is a Singaporean while I am a US citizen. We have two kids, son age 13 turning 14 in Nov, and a 9 years old daughter, with both born and raised in the US. When our kids were born my wife had applied for their Singapore citizenship thinking that we might return to Singapore in the future. Both kids use their Singapore passports to enter Singapore for holidays and summer vacations. We even sent the kids with mom to attend school in Singapore for 2 yrs, but returned to the US once we realized the implications of NS before my son turned 13. We currently live and work in the US.

Like other parents we didn’t realize the complications in the renouncement procedure (exit permit and renouncing at 21 years old, etc.). Thus we are looking for advice on how to position ourselves and how best to communicate to the government to apply for deferment.

So far, the “benefits”

[Mad Scientist]

[quote="cary28"]Hi, I am new to this forum and will have to face this issue of NS liability for my son, who will be turning 14 this year. I am hoping that someone on the forum can provide some valuable insight to our situation.

My wife is a Singaporean while I am a US citizen. We have two kids, son age 13 turning 14 in Nov, and a 9 years old daughter, with both born and raised in the US. When our kids were born my wife had applied for their Singapore citizenship thinking that we might return to Singapore in the future. Both kids use their Singapore passports to enter Singapore for holidays and summer vacations. We even sent the kids with mom to attend school in Singapore for 2 yrs, but returned to the US once we realized the implications of NS before my son turned 13. We currently live and work in the US.

Like other parents we didn’t realize the complications in the renouncement procedure (exit permit and renouncing at 21 years old, etc.). Thus we are looking for advice on how to position ourselves and how best to communicate to the government to apply for deferment.

So far, the “benefits”

[cary28]

M S,

Thanks for the quick response. This is probably a dumb question, but how do I get to the sticky from Kraikk & absorb. I went through the first 7 pages of the forum on this topic but can only find reference to Kraikk's post and sticky, but not the actual comment. Thanks.

[nakatago]

M S,

Thanks for the quick response. This is probably a dumb question, but how do I get to the sticky from Kraikk & absorb. I went through the first 7 pages of the forum on this topic but can only find reference to Kraikk's post and sticky, but not the actual comment. Thanks.

Use the search function; it's powered by Google.

[Saint]

M S,

Thanks for the quick response. This is probably a dumb question, but how do I get to the sticky from Kraikk & absorb. I went through the first 7 pages of the forum on this topic but can only find reference to Kraikk's post and sticky, but not the actual comment. Thanks.

http://forum.singaporeexpats.com/ftopic61423.html

[cary28]

Saint and nakatago,

Thanks very much for the tip and link. I used the search feature and found the post.

Great info which I will need to digest and review its relevancy to my situation. I'm sure I will have more question, so its great to have the wisdom and experience of this forum to help me navigate through this quagmire.

[Koalabear]

am1live,

My son is only +7 now, we have another 2 - 3 years to go before we leave Singapore, so we have not actually gone though the process but my previous postings of items to consider, right of entry stamp in foreign passport, not collecting PinkIC, intention to renounce and other things also brought about by MadScientist still hold valid.

The one thing I can tell you for sure is that the Singapore Government is fully aware of some people that hold Dual Citizenship and they tend to look the other way, not enforce the laws, as they would prefer that you kept your CPF money here and have your son's serve NS.

My wife's relative actually all immigrated overseas when both son's were in Secondary school. They tried to get NS exempted by supplying all family member's new foreign passport documents and the request was rejected. One of their son's is about to fly back to serve NS and the other one has completed OCS and is a 2nd Lieutenant coming close to his ORD date already.

The funny thing was their mother still uses the Singapore Passport to enter Singapore, foreign passport to enter domicile, and the government has copies of her foreign passport with the exemption request but do not enforce the dual citizenship laws against her, perhaps, because both of her son's are serving NS.

All this is a very personal issue, I have no trouble leaving Singapore early enough and asking for son's exemption, as most of my wife's relatives in Singapore are almost all gone and we will not have anything to tie us to this country so if we can legally get exempted, then we will certainly do so.

To each his own... good luck!

They dont even care after. I ORD in 2006 and my mum went back this year for the first time in 5 years to vote in GE. The customs officer looked hard at her passport wondering why her passport look so empty. He let her in anyway without asking her where is her 2nd passport.

[cary28]

I wrote to ICA & CMB regarding my situation, requesting for clarification and procedure to defer NS for a dual citizenship 13 yr old who plans to renounce his Singapore status when he reaches 21. Here is the response:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NATIONAL SERVICE DEFERMENT
Name, IC#

1. Please refer to our email dated 5 Oct 11 regarding your request for your son, *** to be granted deferment from his full-time National Service (NS) till his age of 21 to enable him to decide on his citizenship status.

2. All male Singaporeans are required to fulfil their NS obligations under the Enlistment Act. As a Singapore citizen, *** is required to apply for exit permit (EP) at the age of 13 years old and to register for NS upon reaching the age of 16½ years old. He is also required for NS enlistment at the earliest opportunity after reaching the age of 18 years, unless he is granted deferment from NS for his overseas studies. We are enclosing the EP leaflet for your retention.

3. Under the Singapore Constitution, Singapore citizens can only renounce their Singapore citizenship (SC) after reaching the age of 21 years. Those below 21 years can apply for NS deferment till 21 years pending renunciation of their Singapore citizenship.

4. You are required to let us know ***’s intention of his SC/the purpose of his NS deferment before we can process his case. If your intention is for your son, *** to renounce his SC at his age of 21 without serving his NS, we are enclosing the application forms for your completion. We will assess his eligibility for NS deferment till his age of 21, pending renunciation of his SC when we have received his application. Thank you and regards.

Yours sincerely,

MS TAN HEE CHOO

NSR BR, NSRMC

CENTRAL MANPOWER BASE

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My interpretation of this is that we can submit the application with our justification, then CMB will evaluate and possibly grant a deferment until 21; at which time my son will have to renounce his Singapore citizenship to avoid serving NS. The assumption is that this application will pre-determine his decision to renounce, so he won't have the option to retain his Singapore citizenship upon reaching 21 if he choose to serve NS.

I don't know if I'm reading more into this, but my assumption is that we won't need to post a bond if this application is approved; since this will "bypass" the standard procedure of registering at 16.5 for NS and serving at 18, as he will be granted deferment until 21.

I would appreciate any feedback from those who have gone through this process. What reason would be viewed as "legitimate" from CMB's perspective, and likely secure their approval for the deferment? Am I being naive in assuming we don't need to post a bond even if CMB approves the deferment until 21?

My son would not have the option of making his own choice wrt US or Singapore citizenship when he reaches 21, since we would be "renouncing" his Singapore citizenship by submitting this application. Does this sound correct, as I thought the idea was for the child to make the decision when he reaches 21. Thanks for your help.