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NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

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RimBlock
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NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by RimBlock » Thu, 01 Aug 2019 6:28 pm

Hi all,

Like many here I have a full soap opera of my own but I will keep this thread to just a small section.

I have 3 boys all Singaporean. My wife is Singaporean and I am a PR.

The boys are 8, 11 and 20 with the oldest currently doing NS sitting in a warehouse most days home at 5:30 most nights and over the weekends (one lucky son of a err gun).

I may have the opportunity to move with my current employer to the US which is pretty appealing. I am, however, concerned about locking away 75k per child (the two younger ones) for around 8 years for the NS Bond.

I fully intend for them to return for NS due to;
  • Close family in SG (cousins they get on with very well) along with uncles / aunts/ grand parents etc.
    My wife has her CPF with more than double the bond amount locked away in it. If she chose to it would take her 5 - 6 years to get another citizenship and renounce to cash out.
From various posts here it seems a rolling renew of the boys exit permits once each hits 13 may be the way to go. Any comments ?.

Also during the time they have the exit permit, is there any issue with them coming and visiting family in SG, say once every 1 or 2 years ?. Will this actually support the yearly renewal rather than their 'out of country' time being seen a a big block.

Any special considerations after the age of 16 and the medical recall ?.

Ultimately I would rather not have to lock away 150k but if there is no other reasonable way then I will do so in a savings account so it will be there when the time comes.

Oh and I see there is something about a fine (2k per parent) regarding the non payment of the bond. Any experience with this and when you are likely to get fined for it.

Thanks for any replies / suggestions
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sundaymorningstaple
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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 01 Aug 2019 9:14 pm

Not sure on any updates since my son did his NS (he'll be 30 in two weeks. My wife is also SGC and I've been a PR for over quarter of a century. I didn't go back to the US aside from the occasional visit every 2 or 3 years for a couple of weeks, so don't know about the occasional trip back to Singapore with regard to the exit permit, but I would hazard a guess that it will not (hope I'm wrong though). With regard to the bond, you don't need to tie up your own money. You can get a bankers guarantee from a local bank. I'm pretty sure that Malaysian Banking here in Singapore does it and I reckon the other local banks would also do the same as your wife is a SGC. I used to have a recruitment agency about 15 years ago and MBSB gave me a bankers guarantee to cover the Recruitment License Bond. I reckon it would cost you a couple of hundred a year but it wouldn't tie up your own cash that way.

Regarding your son, my son had much the same deal as he was in the Navy but worked dockside in the warehouses for restocking the vessels. Mostly because he was PES3 I think as he wrecked his elbow while doing a alternative rock concert (Caracal was his band back then) when he decided to go body surfing in the mosh pit from the stage and they dropped him. Be thankful he got a cushy gig!

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PNGMK
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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by PNGMK » Thu, 01 Aug 2019 11:12 pm

The 8 and 11 YO could get out of NS but your wife (as your surmise) would certainly need to begin migration proceedings as well. Also it closes the door to Singapore for your boys.

SMS covered it correctly. @MadScientist has pointed out before that you should set the exit permit for one day short of two years and then roll it over - that works until they are 16.5 yo. Above 16.5 you will have to post a bond (as a BG) or have them stay outside without a permit - the penalty for not having a permit rises fairly steeply post 16.5 however.

https://www.cmpb.gov.sg/web/portal/cmpb ... t-and-bond
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
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You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

RimBlock
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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by RimBlock » Fri, 02 Aug 2019 1:33 pm

Thanks to both of you for your informative replies.

@SMS:

Not sure how BD's work but dont you need to either up-front the amount and the bank holds it or have some other significant collateral they can take if you default ?.

We would be selling up and taking everything apart from my wifes CPF.

My son is just naturally lucky... He was assigned to Mechanised Infantry and went through BMT. He then got posted to the Navy and was looking forwards to going around on patrol boats until they moved him over to stores and now he has a pretty cushy life. I fear Kama will come back to bite his brothers 8-[ .

@PNGMK:

Whilst the idea of not having to up root them and bounce them back to SG and pay bonds and exit visas etc for NS is quite appealing, SG has been good to us and I strongly feel we should keep our side of this commitment by making sure all three kids do their NS.

The rolling exit visa sounds good and it is also good to know about the post 16.5 hard bond requirement. This has been most helpful and I may have a plan for the next few years now.

We would move to the US (all other pieces falling in to place) and stay for around 6 years. My middle son would go back during this time for his medical and we would pay the bond so he could return to the US.

When he is due to return for his NS, it is only 1 year at most before my youngest has to come back for his medical so we could all move back to SG which would provide support for both the kids during NS, remove the need of a second bond payment and the first bond would come back to us a year or so later (?? - when is the bond 'freed' - start of or end of NS ?).

After doing NS they can do Uni in SG and we can then decide where to go from there. Maybe back to the UK if it has finally finished Brexit and / or hasn't imploded ....

We are also going to look at Uni in the UK for my oldest as he can stay with my parents and it is a lot closer for visits than SG and the US.

Its a crazy plan... but it might just work...

Now where is my luck / fate / karma hiding...
Without dialogues, if you tell them you want something real bad, you will get it real bad.

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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 02 Aug 2019 4:11 pm

It's basically an insurance policy. The other way is as you say, your are posting the collateral either in the form of fixed deposit or some other vehicle - that is posting the actual bond. I'm sure they have their ways of collecting if the Insurance Bond has to be paid out by the bank but I've never looked that far.

Sounds like your son had exactly the same experience as my son as he was also initially posted to an Army unit and then a couple of weeks later assigned to the Navy in stores.

RimBlock
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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by RimBlock » Mon, 26 Aug 2019 2:24 pm

Thanks SMS.

Just a quick update,

Looks like if the move goes ahead (not certain yet) then we will probably relocate for 5-6 years and then move back to SG in time for my youngest boys medical and the following year my middle boy will kick off his national service. Hopefully this will mean only one bond will be required based on the advice above (middle sons medical exam --> NS start period).
Without dialogues, if you tell them you want something real bad, you will get it real bad.

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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 26 Aug 2019 5:43 pm

Hope all goes smoothly.

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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 27 Aug 2019 4:27 pm

I hope your boy/s don't change their minds after a few years of cushy living stateside.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

RimBlock
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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by RimBlock » Tue, 27 Aug 2019 4:45 pm

They seem to have been suitably indoctrinated by the Singapore public education system... :(

Their brother is finishing up his NS next year so they have seen someone else going through it (all be it with a cushy time) and their cousins, who they are pretty close to, will also be doing it around the same time as them.

I suspect they will be ok with it but it is a massive PITA..... ](*,)

Saying that... with the Parental Tax Relief, we have not paid income tax in SG for the least 12 years :shock: . Gotta take the rough with the smooth.

Truth be told, my desire to move away from SG is not mainly due to anything SG can change. The lease hold issue for HDB is a big part but the weather and lack of ability to go for hikes in nature without looking like I have jumped in a lake are strongly contributing.

If things do work out we will be in the Southern States ( Music City) which I am sure will bring about its own challenges but then I would like them also to be in a bit of a challenging environment so they realise the rest of the world is not quite as safe as Singapore for when they want to go travelling as they get older.
Without dialogues, if you tell them you want something real bad, you will get it real bad.

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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 27 Aug 2019 6:19 pm

that's interesting about parental tax relief.... isn't a one off rebate?
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

RimBlock
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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by RimBlock » Thu, 29 Aug 2019 10:56 am

Nope it is an amount credited to you in your IRAS tax portal.

Amount is outlined here.

The IRAS automatically deduct any remaining on that tax year and the balance remains until the next assessment.

It can also be back dated as we found out 3 years ago and got all our subsequent tax repaid to us.

We are not jointly significantly high earners to have yet blown the amount provided so it has worked out pretty well for us.
Without dialogues, if you tell them you want something real bad, you will get it real bad.

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PNGMK
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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by PNGMK » Fri, 30 Aug 2019 9:28 am

RimBlock wrote:
Thu, 29 Aug 2019 10:56 am
Nope it is an amount credited to you in your IRAS tax portal.

Amount is outlined here.

The IRAS automatically deduct any remaining on that tax year and the balance remains until the next assessment.

It can also be back dated as we found out 3 years ago and got all our subsequent tax repaid to us.

We are not jointly significantly high earners to have yet blown the amount provided so it has worked out pretty well for us.
Ok it's all coming back to me. I was the test case for IRAS on this when it came to children from divorced parents. The IRAS (and this still shits me off!) wouldn't allow me to claim the rebate for my son as he was under my ex's custody even though I effectively support them both (3 more years to go only!). However I was able to claim 5k for my daughter and it disappeared into the first tax bill that came long.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

RimBlock
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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by RimBlock » Fri, 30 Aug 2019 10:03 am

Yeah, seems strange. If you are paying then you should get the rebate.

Seems Singapore just drops a wall if it goes against what they believe should be the way.

Was chatting to my wife about cigarettes and vaping and how vaping was outright banned in SG even though, if properly regulated it could be better than cigs but as SG want to discourage smoking in any form it is totally banned. People still import though and are now at more (of their own) risk based on what is in the compounds they are vaping.

I dont smoke of vape so have no dog in this fight but seems to be a pretty textbook example of how the gvmt stamp their foot on something and that is it... unless it is forcing PRs to convert to citizens that is :devil:
Without dialogues, if you tell them you want something real bad, you will get it real bad.

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PNGMK
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Re: NS Bond for kids (NS intended).

Post by PNGMK » Fri, 30 Aug 2019 5:58 pm

Agreed. It was quite the fight at the time. I think I posted about it on this forum under an old moniker. It seemed unfair then and still does even now. Both of my children are SC as well.

And here is the whole sorry tale from a long time ago.

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=90322&p=603244&hil ... dy#p603244
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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