UK vote to leave the EU ['BREXIT'] - 23rd June

[nakatago]

That's funny. You must have crappy new low-energy bulbs because from anecdotal evidence, they do last longer for one thing. And you can get one of those new bulbs in warm white which is a nice, warm glow, like incandescents. I always get them in warm white.

I don’t know if you can buy ‘crappy’ ones, in any case Osram (German, hence you’d hope well made) seems to be the brand we always have to buy. Perhaps that’s part of the pricing issue, there seems to be something of a monopoly on their manufacture. From my experience we seem to be doing well if we have a bulb that lasts a year. ...blah, blah, blah, grumble, grumble...rambling intensifies.

You may need to rethink how you live your life if something that most people say last longer breaks down faster for you. You should take a step back and say, "these things are supposed to be more durable; other people say they are. What am I doing different from everybody else?"



And seriously? Everything's "with an agenda" for you. It's getting tiresome. Yes, it's big lighting and they're out to get you. Oh, thank you, JR8 for crusading against big lighting. We don't know what we'll do without you. You're full of shit. Just as much shit as you say other people are full of shit.

[MikeJones]

...
MJ: ‘I think UK should stay in for purely selfish reasons, the ability to work throughout Europe without having to apply for work permits is a lovely option to have and I'd really rather that stayed the same.

... and by extension one could say that it’s the selfish/self-interest of the French and Germans that the EU exists at all.
I can see that having a right to work anywhere in Europe appeals to some, but I think it’s a tiny minority. Most people who move for work don’t also wish to have to become fluent in a foreign language in order to facilitate such a move. I do not know a single person who has ever had a career in the UK and chosen to continue that career [or another one] within the rest of the EU. But I know many, many, people who have moved abroad with their career to other English speaking countries. Perhaps you were born a cunning-linguist I don’t know?

A minority is true but I did say for "purely selfish reasons" . I'm certainly no linguist I speak English and very very poor German however I have spent time working in Denmark, Germany and Belgium, albeit on a project basis of a few months at a time, without any real difficulties at all. I also know at least half a dozen native english speakers (a variety of British, US, Kiwis and Aussies) with no particular pre-existing linguistic skills who have carried on their careers in a variety of other European countries (Belgium, Denmark, Spain, France and Poland off the top of my head). For a couple of them it was more about the fact their partner was from that country but certainly not in all cases. Maybe you need to get out more?

As for the lighting cabal attempting to rule the world, this is the other reason I'm for remain, the leave camp almost invariably descend into "examples" that make them sound like their tinfoil hat is cutting of vital blood supply.

Mike

[rajagainstthemachine]

I'm laughing reading some of the posts here, which leads me to the next big question.
how many EU members does it take to fit a light bulb?

[MikeJones]

I've just realised I've missed a perfect opportunity for an Illuminati joke damn it.

I'm here all week, tip your waitress etc etc

Mike

[JR8]

Fortunately dual unit signage is legally permitted in the United Kingdom with no expiration date. Stores are perfectly free to display both units of measure on their signage, and they routinely do.

In the case of the Metric Martyrs* (equiv: a few auntie-stalls who got together down at the wet market to fight for their rights) they were obliged to buy new scales that were capable of weighing goods in grams, such things are very expensive and if very few customers order in grams entirely onerous. Why were they not at liberty to sell goods in the way that customers wanted? How did their rebellion threaten the very existence of the EU? Instead they were prosecuted, and it went all the way on appeal to the House of Lords (no less) AND the European Court of Human Rights. It's like Auntie Doris from the wet market taking her case to the UN - Mad!

Most packaged products in U.K. supermarkets started including metric weights and volumes about 36 years ago, in 1980. Anybody who hasn't stumbled into a gram by now really hasn't been paying attention.

And it's that kind of arrogant sentiment that really makes people hate the EU even more. It is considered bullying and interference. BTW when is the last time you taught your parents a new language they have absolutely zero interest in or need to learn?

If you really want to complain about something "confusing" you ought to be complaining about the decimalisation of U.K. currency on February 15, 1971. There's no accommodation whatsoever for fans of shillings. Try asking a supermarket cashier "How much is that in shillings?" and see what happens.

But at least a Pound stayed a Pound, it was only the sub-units that changed. Since people were already totally familiar with decimal systems, that change wasn't that hard.
My experience straddles decimalisation. I have no problem with the decimalised Pound; but I still struggle to simply visualise some metric measures, like C<>F for temperature. On the latter I'm caught between two camps, hot temperatures make more sense to me in degrees F, cold ones in degrees C. [Perhaps I should go to metric classes so that I can align myself with pointless EU diktats eh? lol ]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_Martyrs

And also from this link... 'In 2008, Nic Davison was served with an infringement notice for selling draught beer by the litre at his Polish restaurant in Doncaster [UK]. Trading Standards officers threatened Mr Davison with prosecution, and called on him to change the glasses used in his restaurant. Mr Davison refused, stating the supremacy of EU law over UK law in matters of weights and measures. The case against him was dropped.'

Mad! I wonder how much time and expense went into just that one entirely pointless action.

[calugaruvaxile]

I'm laughing reading some of the posts here, which leads me to the next big question.
how many EU members does it take to fit a light bulb?

if your question was about the members of the EU commission, i would say A HELL OF A LOT

- first, they would need to assess the feasibility
- then, they would need to assess the HSE (+ global warming) impact
- then, a planning meeting will be organized
- secure transportation from the warehouse
- pre-event meeting to review the planning
- reschedule the event due to strike/sickleave/whatever
- reschedule due to incorrect bulb being delivered
- stop the event due to unsafe handling of the ladder resulting in a near-accident situation
- restart from HSE assessment

[JR8]

@ Eagle, this is the bulb I have in the ceiling halogen circuit back home, about 80p each in a 5-pack. That's about right, I'd pay about £1 each down at the local high street.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/halolite-mr16 ... pack/37722

About the closest rated one I can find in halogen is £6. And that's 40W equiv vs 50W.
http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-mr16-led- ... m-6w/1639g

In total I've about 24-28 of these in the ceilings of my home...

[JR8]

I'm laughing reading some of the posts here, which leads me to the next big question.
how many EU members does it take to fit a light bulb?

Raj can laugh because kind nursie up in BKK is administering him her special love-potion, plus this bull from the EU doesn't interfere on a daily basis with his life /

[rajagainstthemachine]

I'm laughing reading some of the posts here, which leads me to the next big question.
how many EU members does it take to fit a light bulb?

Raj can laugh because kind nursie up in BKK is administering him her special love-potion, plus this bull from the EU doesn't interfere on a daily basis with his life /

lol @ jr8 hardly the love potion today, she almost threatened a root canal, more on RT thread later.
If you ask me on which side i would stand, i would prefer brexit, purely because of the commonwealth angle, i think the UK stands to gain more from economic cooperation with the commonwealth nations than from EU.
Plus most of these countries would be more than happy to oblige.
And that alway jr8 can source his incadescent bulbs from bajaj and a pack of fags from wills.

[JR8]

A vid re: my local street market in London, Portobello. 17+1/2mins long.
By the end of the first minute you've heard 17 references to pounds of weight, seen 2 signs by weight in pounds - and you've seen NONE in metric.
You even see a lady at 5:22 talking about 'A few bob [shillings]' which by then had disappeared 30+ years earlier. And this was as recent as 2011.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AD13i7bOUM4
'Stall Stories - A History of Portobello Road Market'

Prosecute them all I say, it's outrageous they don't use the metric system! Damn free will, they must comply! Even if it's not what people want.... er.... for the sake of unity! lol

[x9200]

To have a common unit system over a common trade area is just logical and pragmatic, even a must if there is a freedom of movement and residence involved. Of course, if an individual country wants still to use their own system, it should be allowed, but the other, common system should be used in parallel.

It is sort of like one would like to visit France but the French would only accept your passport if it was in French, in China in Chinese and in Hungary in Hungarian. Fortunately, the passports follow some common standards and use multiple languages for marking/labelling. An unification is needed for any unions involving 2 or more parties so hard to blame EU for this one.

[BBCWatcher]

Why were they not at liberty to sell goods in the way that customers wanted?

They are. Obviously. They still do.

What they were required to do is also be able to measure and to sell in decimal units (metric). So that when (not if) their geriatric clientele dies, their children have a hope of inheriting a thriving business. If they can sell in both, they'll be able to serve all comers.

How did their rebellion threaten the very existence of the EU? Instead they were prosecuted, and it went all the way on appeal to the House of Lords (no less) AND the European Court of Human Rights.

The House of Lords is a domestic U.K. body (within the EU, but domestic), and the ECHR is above/outside the EU. A "Leave" vote has no impact on the United Kingdom's ECHR relationship.

Even if you're going to have a common market (as opposed to a single market) you need standard weights and measures. U.K. metrification clearly predates the Maastricht Treaty and the single market. It goes back to the common market, in Thatcherite terms. (U.K. metrification began and progressed in earnest under her premiership.) It's also dual. Trade all the pounds and ounces you want with whomever wants them, as long as you/they want (and respirate). However, when somebody wants 500 grams -- a person under the age of 40, for example -- take care of them, too. It's only polite.

[the lynx]

Just parking myself here so that I can continually read this over my cereal every morning for the next few weeks.

I have nothing to contribute anyway.

[JR8]

To have a common unit system over a common trade area is just logical and pragmatic, even a must if there is a freedom of movement and residence involved. Of course, if an individual country wants still to use their own system, it should be allowed, but the other, common system should be used in parallel.

Ah but a street-market's 'trade area' might be a 1/2 mile radius (miles, there I go again, I better add that that's 805 Metres, just in case some clipboard wielding apparatchik from the council decides to prosecute me ). The traders have chosen a system that works for them, and works for their customers. They're not looking to export into the EU. It's about as silly as suggesting the signs on their products should be labelled in every EU language. Perhaps the stall-holders would legally have to speak every EU language just in case a foreigner shows up. Perhaps they should be forced to accept Euros too, so as not to alienate any of our friends from the continent who wonder down that way.

It is sort of like one would like to visit France but the French would only accept your passport if it was in French, in China in Chinese and in Hungary in Hungarian. Fortunately, the passports follow some common standards and use multiple languages for marking/labelling. An unification is needed for any unions involving 2 or more parties so hard to blame EU for this one.

The problem is that EU laws like this are a blanket requirement. They apply to street traders in the same way they apply to MNCs. The later have the pricing-power to pass the added costs on to their customers. Just having to buy a new/metric set of scales would made a large hole in most street-traders returns.

[JR8]

Why were they not at liberty to sell goods in the way that customers wanted?

They are. Obviously. They still do.

What they were required to do is also be able to measure and to sell in decimal units (metric). So that when (not if) their geriatric clientele dies, their children have a hope of inheriting a thriving business. If they can sell in both, they'll be able to serve all comers.

Some still do, but they are at risk of being prosecuted. The reason they still do is because that is what people want. If someone turns up wanting a kilo of something, I'm quite sure a trader in his own interest can cope with that. The trader should be at liberty to decide what is best for him and his business, rather than be forced to comply with expensive legislation that applies to a foreign export market of zero concern to him.

However, when somebody wants 500 grams -- a person under the age of 40, for example -- take care of them, too. It's only polite.

'500 grams, that's just over a pound, so that's what I'll weigh out for you' - simple eh, but no that's illegal.
'It's only polite'? The trader is free to trade with whomever he wants, he's not obliged 'to be polite' nor obliged to sell anything if he chooses not to. He is the best judge of what is best for him and his business. The parallel would be suggesting it's only polite (backed up with legal enforcement) that stalls at wet-markets should mark all their goods in four languages.

And you mention France, which is ironic. They perhaps more than any other member state have something of a notorious reputation with regards to EU law. They'll sign up to every piece of EU legislation going, but they are waaay less likely to enforce it than in the UK. The French are much more laissez-faire* in this way, vs the UK clipboard Nazis.


*Just in case... - 'the policy of leaving things to take their own course, without interfering.'

ps. Hi Lynx!