PR as a married spouse overseas

[vik482]

Hello all,
I and my Singaporean wife live in Europe. I used to work in Singapore on an EP from 2007 till 2021.
When I left, my wife (then girlfriend) joined me in Europe. We got married in Singapore last year. Before getting married we did the PMLA assessment which got approved.
This year we applied for the LTVP and got approved. I will be visiting Singapore in a few weeks to collect it.

The question I have is whether I should apply for PR from overseas. I read a few posts in similar vein and it seems unlikely that I will get although I did see one positive response. I intend to live in Europe for 2 more years after which I will move back to Singapore. I just wonder if I should apply PR now from overseas or wait till I move back to Singapore.

When I lived in Singapore I was rejected for PR twice and it left a bad taste in my mouth and I didn't apply again. Just wondering if I should apply now. If I would get while overseas, it would give me a great sense of security on my return. It would make job-hunting and re-settling easier. But I suspect I would be rejected again.
I feel bad also about my poor wife who is unable to get a nice HDB because of marrying me even though she doesn't say it. We will be selling our Europe house when we move back. A PR for me would make the HDB buying process much easier and I wish to give my wife some comfort on that fact before relocating. Worst case, I could relocate anyway, live with my in-laws, apply for PR and go through the difficult job-hunting process anyway. Which I dislike but I could tolerate I guess.

[malcontent]

I know the bitter taste well. I too was rejected after working on an EP for several years, and despite 25 more years on an EP I never reapplied. However, my situation was unique because I had the same employer throughout and they had a CPF substitute, so PR offered no real benefit. In fact, staying on an EP better in some ways.

Since you have now married a Singaporean, getting PR will be much easier, but applying from overseas might hurt your chances. Was the LTVP an LTVP+ or just LTVP?

[MOCHS]

I know the bitter taste well. I too was rejected after working on an EP for several years, and despite 25 more years on an EP I never reapplied. However, my situation was unique because I had the same employer throughout and they had a CPF substitute, so PR offered no real benefit. In fact, staying on an EP better in some ways.

I would say your story is wholly different as you only applied once in the late 90s/early 2000s in the early years of your marriage and you never applied again. If you re-applied after a few years of marriage and/or after your child(ren) were born, you would have gotten PR easily, IMO.

Plus the criteria back then is different from now, you can’t compare apples to oranges.

[MOCHS]

I intend to live in Europe for 2 more years after which I will move back to Singapore.

Why waste money to apply for LTVP in the first place if you’re not gonna live in Singapore afterwards…?

Long Term Visit Pass is for you to live long term in SG. Not get LTVP and then stay overseas for most of the LTVP’s duration.

Honestly if you’re not even living in SG while on LTVP, you’re not demonstrating to ICA that you wanna be here for the long term. Why should ICA grant permanent residency to someone who isn’t physically permanently in SG, do you get my meaning?

Best is to apply PR after you’ve been physically living & working in SG for a couple of years. Technically my husband was unemployed in SG when I sponsored his PR and it still got approved.

Yes, being in a transnational marriage in SG sucks with all these red tape. I’ve been in your wife’s shoes. But follow what ICA wants and you’ll be rewarded in the end.

[vik482]

Why waste money to apply for LTVP in the first place if you’re not gonna live in Singapore afterwards…?

Well, it's only $30 and there's more financial advantages to having Singapore residency status even if living overseas. Zero capital gains tax, for example. This is actually a very significant incentive. I still send all my savings to Singapore and keep all my investments in Singapore but some brokerage accounts require residency.

Long Term Visit Pass is for you to live long term in SG. Not get LTVP and then stay overseas for most of the LTVP’s duration.

Honestly if you’re not even living in SG while on LTVP, you’re not demonstrating to ICA that you wanna be here for the long term. Why should ICA grant permanent residency to someone who isn’t physically permanently in SG, do you get my meaning?

Indeed, this is true. My understanding is the pathway to PR requires a Pass in the first place. Hence, my intention to apply for a LTVP first followed by PR. I do wish to relocate to Singapore in the long term and I'd like to expedite this process while I'm overseas to reduce the hassle of resettling in Singapore. I understand that the ICA would perceive this differently and ultimately they make the decision.

Best is to apply PR after you’ve been physically living & working in SG for a couple of years. Technically my husband was unemployed in SG when I sponsored his PR and it still got approved.

Yes, being in a transnational marriage in SG sucks with all these red tape. I’ve been in your wife’s shoes. But follow what ICA wants and you’ll be rewarded in the end.

Yes, the option of moving in with my in-laws while unemployed is a last resort I have. I'm not really keen on it though. I guess my hope is that my previous residency will be considered. But perhaps not, because I was rejected twice when I stayed there lol.

[nelyanne]

You don't need an LTVP in order to get a PR. You can apply for a PR straight away and check an option saying that you want to be considered for LTVP if your PR is rejected.

You should also consider whether getting a PR would really make buying an HDB easier lol. It all depends on your financial situation, and your age...

[malcontent]

I know the bitter taste well. I too was rejected after working on an EP for several years, and despite 25 more years on an EP I never reapplied. However, my situation was unique because I had the same employer throughout and they had a CPF substitute, so PR offered no real benefit. In fact, staying on an EP better in some ways.

I would say your story is wholly different as you only applied once in the late 90s/early 2000s in the early years of your marriage and you never applied again. If you re-applied after a few years of marriage and/or after your child(ren) were born, you would have gotten PR easily, IMO.

Plus the criteria back then is different from now, you can’t compare apples to oranges.

He and I both started out as a single EP holder, we both applied for PR in our early years without family ties, both of us got rejected… and then we both married a local lass. Yes, different era, but same outcome.

However, that is where our similarities end. He now has family ties and intends to take advantage of that, which I never did because of my unique circumstances. I just wanted to say that being on an EP isn’t always worse than PR, it depends.

[MOCHS]

He and I both started out as a single EP holder, we both applied for PR in our early years without family ties, both of us got rejected… and then we both married a local lass. Yes, different era, but same outcome.

However, that is where our similarities end. He now has family ties and intends to take advantage of that, which I never did because of my unique circumstances. I just wanted to say that being on an EP isn’t always worse than PR, it depends.

Ah sorry too many members stories and got mixed up.

Then it’s not surprising a single got rejected for PR back then.

Don’t think any company is as generous as yours about compensating you same amount as CPF contribution. Maybe it was a thing back then but it’s almost unheard of now.

[malcontent]

He and I both started out as a single EP holder, we both applied for PR in our early years without family ties, both of us got rejected… and then we both married a local lass. Yes, different era, but same outcome.

However, that is where our similarities end. He now has family ties and intends to take advantage of that, which I never did because of my unique circumstances. I just wanted to say that being on an EP isn’t always worse than PR, it depends.

Ah sorry too many members stories and got mixed up.

Then it’s not surprising a single got rejected for PR back then.

Don’t think any company is as generous as yours about compensating you same amount as CPF contribution. Maybe it was a thing back then but it’s almost unheard of now.

In the 5 years before I left, my employer revised their CPF substitution to be identical to locals and the 17% is contributed to SRS instead. I doubt they’ll be getting rid of the perk anytime soon — they generally believe in taking care of people instead of just taking advantage of them. That’s why I stayed for decades.

I know one expat that left the company (he was on local terms, no package - same as me) and when he was hired by a large Australian mining company in Singapore, they told him — whatever pension plan or country system you’ve got, just tell us and we’ll send the money there.

I agree though, such perks have become rare… usually large companies with deep pockets that still believe in doing the right thing.

[uglymale]

Why waste money to apply for LTVP in the first place if you’re not gonna live in Singapore afterwards…?

Well, it's only $30 and there's more financial advantages to having Singapore residency status even if living overseas. Zero capital gains tax, for example. This is actually a very significant incentive. I still send all my savings to Singapore and keep all my investments in Singapore but some brokerage accounts require residency.

er, that’s not really how it works. having an LVTP doesn’t switch your tax residency to Singapore. if you’re still living and working in Europe, your tax residency stays in your European country, and you’re required to pay whatever taxes apply there.

if your jurisdiction taxes overseas income or investments (Singapore does not), you’re still expected to declare your Singapore interest, dividends, and capital gains in your local tax filings and pay the appropriate tax. otherwise you can run into issues with the tax authorities and the law of the country you are in.

singapore and european countries participate in the OECD CRS system, so financial institutions automatically exchange account and investment information. governments have been tightening enforcement on undeclared foreign assets recently. i don't know what your situation is but be careful.

[malcontent]

@uglymale makes a very good point: immigration status ≠ tax status…

getting an LTVP while still living in Europe has no effect on your tax residency.