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STVP - 90/180 days?

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qncersei
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STVP - 90/180 days?

Post by qncersei » Fri, 06 Jan 2023 11:06 pm

Hi all,

Just wanted to tap on the forum's collective wisdom here. I am an SC.

My EU citizen fiance was in Singapore for about 83 days from September to early December 2022. He was originally given a entry permit for 90 days. He was here to help me with my personal stuff and also to plan for our wedding which is scheduled for late Jan 2023. After the 83 days, he returned back home to spend Christmas with his family.

We are planning for him to return in mid Jan 2023, get married in late Jan 2023, and apply for LTVP right after (we already obtained PMLA).

However, my friend alerted me to the rule that says that Singaporeans are only allowed into the Schengen zone for 90 days within any 180 days, and suggested that I check that the reverse did not apply for foreigners coming to Singapore.

We contacted his Embassy, which replied: "According to the ICA, if one has stayed in Singapore for a full 90 days, the person cannot enter Singapore for the next 90 days. You were almost maxed out last time. You might wish to check with ICA how long you are able to stay for the next visit". I was not able to find any confirmation of this 90/180 days rule on ICA website.

I contacted ICA, who refused to say anything for certain and would only recommend that we prepare all the relevant documents to show our intention. They said the duration of his stay would be determined on the spot at Changi upon his arrival. We have since prepared a folder of documents (PMLA, ROM booking, even hotel bookings of our relatives who are flying in to attend the wedding to show our intention and financial commitment.)

My worry now is that ICA would deny him entry at Changi. They could cite the 90/180 rule, or accuse him of being some sort of visa runner to stay in Singapore for lengthy durations on STVP. Either that, or give him such a short entry permit (eg 7 days) which would not be enough to take him to our wedding day!

Would therefore like to ask:
a) From your experience/knowledge, does Singapore strictly apply the 90/180 day rule for EU nationals coming to SG?
b) What are the chances that he might be denied entry at customs given that we have (I think) a pretty legitimate reason and documents to prove it?
c) When filling in the SG arrival card, should we ask for 90 days or try to put less (eg 30 or 60 days) in order not to raise eyebrows?
d) Any advice on back up plans? My initial thoughts are:

Best case scenario is he is allowed in for 90 days, if not 60 days is also ok

Likely worse case scenario is that he is given entry of only 7 days (making it a total of 90 days within 180 days). In which case all is not lost, as I can sponsor him for STVP extension.

Nightmare scenario, when he is denied entry entirely - Don't know what to do except go to MP :( Even then, might not get an outcome in time for the wedding.

I hope I understood SG immigration rules and didn't miss out anything after spending ages on ICA website and these forums. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance!!!

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Re: STVP - 90/180 days?

Post by singaporeflyer » Fri, 06 Jan 2023 11:46 pm

qncersei wrote:
Fri, 06 Jan 2023 11:06 pm
Hi all,

Just wanted to tap on the forum's collective wisdom here. I am an SC.

My EU citizen fiance was in Singapore for about 83 days from September to early December 2022. He was originally given a entry permit for 90 days. He was here to help me with my personal stuff and also to plan for our wedding which is scheduled for late Jan 2023. After the 83 days, he returned back home to spend Christmas with his family.

We are planning for him to return in mid Jan 2023, get married in late Jan 2023, and apply for LTVP right after (we already obtained PMLA).

However, my friend alerted me to the rule that says that Singaporeans are only allowed into the Schengen zone for 90 days within any 180 days, and suggested that I check that the reverse did not apply for foreigners coming to Singapore.

We contacted his Embassy, which replied: "According to the ICA, if one has stayed in Singapore for a full 90 days, the person cannot enter Singapore for the next 90 days. You were almost maxed out last time. You might wish to check with ICA how long you are able to stay for the next visit". I was not able to find any confirmation of this 90/180 days rule on ICA website.

I contacted ICA, who refused to say anything for certain and would only recommend that we prepare all the relevant documents to show our intention. They said the duration of his stay would be determined on the spot at Changi upon his arrival. We have since prepared a folder of documents (PMLA, ROM booking, even hotel bookings of our relatives who are flying in to attend the wedding to show our intention and financial commitment.)

My worry now is that ICA would deny him entry at Changi. They could cite the 90/180 rule, or accuse him of being some sort of visa runner to stay in Singapore for lengthy durations on STVP. Either that, or give him such a short entry permit (eg 7 days) which would not be enough to take him to our wedding day!

Would therefore like to ask:
a) From your experience/knowledge, does Singapore strictly apply the 90/180 day rule for EU nationals coming to SG?
b) What are the chances that he might be denied entry at customs given that we have (I think) a pretty legitimate reason and documents to prove it?
c) When filling in the SG arrival card, should we ask for 90 days or try to put less (eg 30 or 60 days) in order not to raise eyebrows?
d) Any advice on back up plans? My initial thoughts are:

Best case scenario is he is allowed in for 90 days, if not 60 days is also ok

Likely worse case scenario is that he is given entry of only 7 days (making it a total of 90 days within 180 days). In which case all is not lost, as I can sponsor him for STVP extension.

Nightmare scenario, when he is denied entry entirely - Don't know what to do except go to MP :( Even then, might not get an outcome in time for the wedding.

I hope I understood SG immigration rules and didn't miss out anything after spending ages on ICA website and these forums. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance!!!
If you show the proof of getting married evidence I don't forsee any issue for 30 days visit pass..between did you get PMLA assessment done ?

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Re: STVP - 90/180 days?

Post by MOCHS » Sat, 07 Jan 2023 6:45 am

^ OP already said they have PMLA done.

Never heard of such a rule. My husband is American when he came in with STVP to get married to me and then I applied LTVP for him. I would think they would treat people with western passports similarly… SG is often used as a springboard for Westerners to travel the SEA region.

I don’t think ICA would bat an eyelid of your fiancé entering SG within a month of departing since those roaming holiday go-ers do come back to SG before flying off to other places. Quite likely your guy would get full 90 days STVP again.

My husband basically told the ICA officer “I came here to get married to my Singaporean fiancée” when asked why he was here. The officer just let him through. He also had his PMLA & ROM notice of marriage with him as well in case proof was needed.

Do note ICA’s requirement for STVP: “Short-Term travellers should have sufficient cash and proof of onward travel (tickets, visas), and ensure that you do not stay beyond your visit pass validity.”

Make sure your fiancé has an onward ticket. I did ask ICA if my husband needed one since he’s getting married to me and gonna apply for LTVP. ICA’s reply cited the STVP requirement.

My husband got a cheap budget airline one-way ticket to a nearby SEA country in case he was asked to show proof of an onward ticket. He didn’t use the ticket in the end after he got the LTVP.

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Re: STVP - 90/180 days?

Post by singaporeflyer » Sat, 07 Jan 2023 12:02 pm

MOCHS wrote:
Sat, 07 Jan 2023 6:45 am
^ OP already said they have PMLA done.

Never heard of such a rule. My husband is American when he came in with STVP to get married to me and then I applied LTVP for him. I would think they would treat people with western passports similarly… SG is often used as a springboard for Westerners to travel the SEA region.

I don’t think ICA would bat an eyelid of your fiancé entering SG within a month of departing since those roaming holiday go-ers do come back to SG before flying off to other places. Quite likely your guy would get full 90 days STVP again.

My husband basically told the ICA officer “I came here to get married to my Singaporean fiancée” when asked why he was here. The officer just let him through. He also had his PMLA & ROM notice of marriage with him as well in case proof was needed.

Do note ICA’s requirement for STVP: “Short-Term travellers should have sufficient cash and proof of onward travel (tickets, visas), and ensure that you do not stay beyond your visit pass validity.”

Make sure your fiancé has an onward ticket. I did ask ICA if my husband needed one since he’s getting married to me and gonna apply for LTVP. ICA’s reply cited the STVP requirement.

My husband got a cheap budget airline one-way ticket to a nearby SEA country in case he was asked to show proof of an onward ticket. He didn’t use the ticket in the end after he got the LTVP.
Then in my view 99% should be smooth and no issues for getting 30 days pass atleast.

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Re: STVP - 90/180 days?

Post by qncersei » Sat, 07 Jan 2023 12:41 pm

MOCHS wrote:
Sat, 07 Jan 2023 6:45 am
Do note ICA’s requirement for STVP: “Short-Term travellers should have sufficient cash and proof of onward travel (tickets, visas), and ensure that you do not stay beyond your visit pass validity.”

Make sure your fiancé has an onward ticket. I did ask ICA if my husband needed one since he’s getting married to me and gonna apply for LTVP. ICA’s reply cited the STVP requirement.

My husband got a cheap budget airline one-way ticket to a nearby SEA country in case he was asked to show proof of an onward ticket. He didn’t use the ticket in the end after he got the LTVP.
Just wanted to share: I had a slightly different answer from ICA when I asked about this. ICA said he can provide documents at Changi, for example the PMLA which shows our intention to apply for LTVP, to explain why he has no onward ticket.

Actually during his last 83 day trip, he did not have an onward ticket either (since our plans were not so firm yet at that point), and ICA let him through when he said he was here to spend time with me and to see family.

But otherwise, thanks all!! Very helpful and its a relief to say the least. I hope it all goes well.

Also just wanted to give a special shoutout to MOCHS, I really appreciated your detailed update on the STVP > LTVP > PR journey. It was super helpful when we were trying to plan our lives in Singapore together. Hopefully, I will get the same success in the near future!

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Re: STVP - 90/180 days?

Post by singaporeflyer » Sat, 07 Jan 2023 1:10 pm

qncersei wrote:
Sat, 07 Jan 2023 12:41 pm
MOCHS wrote:
Sat, 07 Jan 2023 6:45 am
Do note ICA’s requirement for STVP: “Short-Term travellers should have sufficient cash and proof of onward travel (tickets, visas), and ensure that you do not stay beyond your visit pass validity.”

Make sure your fiancé has an onward ticket. I did ask ICA if my husband needed one since he’s getting married to me and gonna apply for LTVP. ICA’s reply cited the STVP requirement.

My husband got a cheap budget airline one-way ticket to a nearby SEA country in case he was asked to show proof of an onward ticket. He didn’t use the ticket in the end after he got the LTVP.
Just wanted to share: I had a slightly different answer from ICA when I asked about this. ICA said he can provide documents at Changi, for example the PMLA which shows our intention to apply for LTVP, to explain why he has no onward ticket.

Actually during his last 83 day trip, he did not have an onward ticket either (since our plans were not so firm yet at that point), and ICA let him through when he said he was here to spend time with me and to see family.

But otherwise, thanks all!! Very helpful and its a relief to say the least. I hope it all goes well.

Also just wanted to give a special shoutout to MOCHS, I really appreciated your detailed update on the STVP > LTVP > PR journey. It was super helpful when we were trying to plan our lives in Singapore together. Hopefully, I will get the same success in the near future!
It is better to have a cheap return ticket just as a backup. They rarely ask for the return ticket. But if they ask it on random, it needs to be produced to gain entry to SG.

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Re: STVP - 90/180 days?

Post by MOCHS » Sat, 07 Jan 2023 2:19 pm

My husband’s cheap budget airline ticket was less than SGS$50 but that was before covid. Not sure what’s the price now.

@qncersei, you’re welcome! Just paying it forward since there’s not much info about citizen ladies sponsoring LTVP & PR for their foreigner hubbies since most of the time it’s the guy sponsoring for the wife.

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Re: STVP - 90/180 days?

Post by qncersei » Thu, 02 Feb 2023 10:20 pm

Just wanted to update everyone:

Fiance entered Singapore with no issues at all. We prepped so many documents in anticipation that he might get questioned. We also only asked for 60 days (trying not to be greedy) and upon hearing that he was here to get married to an SC, the ICA officer gave him a thumbs up and automatically gave him 90 days. No further questions asked or documents requested. We were not required to have an onward ticket either (though we bought one just in case anyway).

We have since gotten married and now we are on our LTVP application journey! Submitted it earlier today and hoping for speedy results so we can get on with buying a resale HDB. The form was surprisingly short even though the ICA website said to prepare so many documents.

Hope to bring everyone good news and yet another data point :)

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Re: STVP - 90/180 days?

Post by malcontent » Fri, 03 Feb 2023 1:49 am

Congrats.

Reminds me of when I first moved here… I had an open ended return ticket, good for 6 months — didn’t cost much more than one-way. They did ask to see it upon arrival… but it was the first international flight of my life, my first passport, my first stamp.

Everyone who heard my story called me siao ang moh — chasing my SO all the way here… moving here sight unseen, with two suitcases and a few thousand bucks. But we are still together and I am still here, 27 years later.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: STVP - 90/180 days?

Post by MOCHS » Fri, 03 Feb 2023 9:41 am

qncersei wrote:
Thu, 02 Feb 2023 10:20 pm
The form was surprisingly short even though the ICA website said to prepare so many documents.
Keep your documents with you first until you get the physical card on hand. They have changed the LTVP application before & after COVID so you’ll see a series of steps in the procedure. It was during my husband’s second LTVP renewal that we encountered this for the first time.

Highly likely there will be a “Approved in principle (Pending Document)” portion further down the line when it’s approved in principle.

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