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Moving back overseas SC/PR

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
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wona11
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Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by wona11 » Sat, 29 Aug 2020 9:06 am

Hello,

I am a naturalised SC and my wife is PR. Due to private reasons, we have to move back overseas for an unforeseeable time.

I note that Singapore government may cancel citizenship if you as a naturalised SC stay overseas for 5 years or more (if this does not render you stateless). Is this really true? Anyone experience with this?

It states in Article 129, deprivation of Singapore Citizenship.

thanks a lot for the help!!

the observer
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by the observer » Sat, 29 Aug 2020 10:37 am

The avenue is there for the gahmen to do it.

Though I doubt they would, if you keep a low profile, not bring any attention to yourself in this day and age of social media.

Unless you’ve invented a cure for any virulent diseases and credited the merlion for it.

wona11
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by wona11 » Sat, 29 Aug 2020 10:54 am

the observer wrote:
Sat, 29 Aug 2020 10:37 am
The avenue is there for the gahmen to do it.

Though I doubt they would, if you keep a low profile, not bring any attention to yourself in this day and age of social media.

Unless you’ve invented a cure for any virulent diseases and credited the merlion for it.
Article 129 reads (https://sso.agc.gov.sg/Act/CONS1963?ProvIds=P1X-#pr129-):

(5) The Government may, by order, deprive of his citizenship any person who is a citizen of Singapore by naturalisation if the Government is satisfied that he has been ordinarily resident in foreign countries for a continuous period of 5 years and during that period has neither —
(a) been at any time in the service of Singapore or of an international organisation of which the Government was a member; nor
(b) registered annually at a consulate of Singapore his intention to retain his citizenship.

but also:
(7) No person shall be deprived of his citizenship under this Article or under Article 130 unless the Government is satisfied that it is not conducive to the public good that that person should continue to be a citizen of Singapore; and no person shall be deprived of his citizenship under clause (2)(b) or clause (3)(a) or (b) (i) or under clause (4) or (5) or under Article 130 if the Government is satisfied that as a result of the deprivation he would not be a citizen of any country.

So keep very low profile also difficult, register with overseas embassy.. not sure leh

the observer
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by the observer » Sat, 29 Aug 2020 11:17 am

By low profile, I mean do not get yourself into sticky situations which gets your name or face plastered all over social media or the newswires for the wrong reasons, be it crime or hate speech.

wona11
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by wona11 » Sat, 29 Aug 2020 5:49 pm

the observer wrote:
Sat, 29 Aug 2020 11:17 am
By low profile, I mean do not get yourself into sticky situations which gets your name or face plastered all over social media or the newswires for the wrong reasons, be it crime or hate speech.
Yeah, never had the intention to do something stupid lol... thanks though.. wonder how many citizenships are deprived because staying overseas for 5 years or longer ....

TropicalExpat
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by TropicalExpat » Mon, 31 Aug 2020 9:18 am

I suspect this is used as a get out clause for the gahmen... to wipe their hands of any offending person

wona11
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by wona11 » Mon, 31 Aug 2020 9:27 am

TropicalExpat wrote:
Mon, 31 Aug 2020 9:18 am
I suspect this is used as a get out clause for the gahmen... to wipe their hands of any offending person
Yeah I suspect that too, but if I am a obedient citizen, regardless where I am, I think nothing to fear right?

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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by TropicalExpat » Mon, 31 Aug 2020 9:46 am

wona11 wrote:
Mon, 31 Aug 2020 9:27 am
TropicalExpat wrote:
Mon, 31 Aug 2020 9:18 am
I suspect this is used as a get out clause for the gahmen... to wipe their hands of any offending person
Yeah I suspect that too, but if I am a obedient citizen, regardless where I am, I think nothing to fear right?
I prefer "law abiding :D

subconwretch
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by subconwretch » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 12:37 am

wona11 wrote:
Sat, 29 Aug 2020 9:06 am
Hello,

I am a naturalised SC and my wife is PR. Due to private reasons, we have to move back overseas for an unforeseeable time.

I note that Singapore government may cancel citizenship if you as a naturalised SC stay overseas for 5 years or more (if this does not render you stateless). Is this really true? Anyone experience with this?

It states in Article 129, deprivation of Singapore Citizenship.

thanks a lot for the help!!
Did you "naturalise" , or did you "register"? I highly doubt it is the former.
It is almost certainly by registration, not naturalisation. Citizenship by naturalisation in practice is not granted anymore, though they have retained the provision in the constitution. (There is a whole back story to it from the early days of self-governance when this was once used to grant citizenship to a whole spectrum of people who were not born british subjects, but let's not get into that..). Naturalisation requires 10 of 12 years of residence, and knowledge of Malay (national language) specifically.

While the end result is practically similar, I believe the wording of the criteria for granting citizenship by registration gives the government more discretion on the approvals or rejections. To quote a regional catchphrase, Same-same, but different.

Article 129 (5) applies specifically to naturalisation, as residence was a key criteria for its grant.
That doesn't mean you're totally off the hook. There is still provision for large amounts discretion, probably more than naturalisation, that can be used to deprive citizenship of those who obtained it by registration - especially when "criminal activities which are prejudicial to the interests of public safety, peace or good order" are involved..

gmlakd166
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by gmlakd166 » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 3:23 am

subconwretch wrote:
Tue, 01 Sep 2020 12:37 am
wona11 wrote:
Sat, 29 Aug 2020 9:06 am
Hello,

I am a naturalised SC and my wife is PR. Due to private reasons, we have to move back overseas for an unforeseeable time.

I note that Singapore government may cancel citizenship if you as a naturalised SC stay overseas for 5 years or more (if this does not render you stateless). Is this really true? Anyone experience with this?

It states in Article 129, deprivation of Singapore Citizenship.

thanks a lot for the help!!
Did you "naturalise" , or did you "register"? I highly doubt it is the former.
It is almost certainly by registration, not naturalisation. Citizenship by naturalisation in practice is not granted anymore, though they have retained the provision in the constitution. (There is a whole back story to it from the early days of self-governance when this was once used to grant citizenship to a whole spectrum of people who were not born british subjects, but let's not get into that..). Naturalisation requires 10 of 12 years of residence, and knowledge of Malay (national language) specifically.

While the end result is practically similar, I believe the wording of the criteria for granting citizenship by registration gives the government more discretion on the approvals or rejections. To quote a regional catchphrase, Same-same, but different.

Article 129 (5) applies specifically to naturalisation, as residence was a key criteria for its grant.
That doesn't mean you're totally off the hook. There is still provision for large amounts discretion, probably more than naturalisation, that can be used to deprive citizenship of those who obtained it by registration - especially when "criminal activities which are prejudicial to the interests of public safety, peace or good order" are involved..
The question is, is this really active law? 'Registered Citizenship' could be deprive only because staying oversea for 5 years. I doubt. If anyone know more details, please share.

wona11
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by wona11 » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 8:53 am

subconwretch wrote:
Tue, 01 Sep 2020 12:37 am
wona11 wrote:
Sat, 29 Aug 2020 9:06 am
Hello,

I am a naturalised SC and my wife is PR. Due to private reasons, we have to move back overseas for an unforeseeable time.

I note that Singapore government may cancel citizenship if you as a naturalised SC stay overseas for 5 years or more (if this does not render you stateless). Is this really true? Anyone experience with this?

It states in Article 129, deprivation of Singapore Citizenship.

thanks a lot for the help!!
Did you "naturalise" , or did you "register"? I highly doubt it is the former.
It is almost certainly by registration, not naturalisation. Citizenship by naturalisation in practice is not granted anymore, though they have retained the provision in the constitution. (There is a whole back story to it from the early days of self-governance when this was once used to grant citizenship to a whole spectrum of people who were not born british subjects, but let's not get into that..). Naturalisation requires 10 of 12 years of residence, and knowledge of Malay (national language) specifically.

While the end result is practically similar, I believe the wording of the criteria for granting citizenship by registration gives the government more discretion on the approvals or rejections. To quote a regional catchphrase, Same-same, but different.

Article 129 (5) applies specifically to naturalisation, as residence was a key criteria for its grant.
That doesn't mean you're totally off the hook. There is still provision for large amounts discretion, probably more than naturalisation, that can be used to deprive citizenship of those who obtained it by registration - especially when "criminal activities which are prejudicial to the interests of public safety, peace or good order" are involved..
Thanks a lot! Such a clear answer. You are right. I am a Singapore Citizen by registration (Quite confusing .. some countries use naturalisation .. some use registration). So that means that Deprivation of Citizenship clause 129 (5) is not applicable to my situation (unless I do so stupid stuff ofcourse)?

wona11
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by wona11 » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 8:54 am

gmlakd166 wrote:
Tue, 01 Sep 2020 3:23 am
subconwretch wrote:
Tue, 01 Sep 2020 12:37 am
wona11 wrote:
Sat, 29 Aug 2020 9:06 am
Hello,

I am a naturalised SC and my wife is PR. Due to private reasons, we have to move back overseas for an unforeseeable time.

I note that Singapore government may cancel citizenship if you as a naturalised SC stay overseas for 5 years or more (if this does not render you stateless). Is this really true? Anyone experience with this?

It states in Article 129, deprivation of Singapore Citizenship.

thanks a lot for the help!!
Did you "naturalise" , or did you "register"? I highly doubt it is the former.
It is almost certainly by registration, not naturalisation. Citizenship by naturalisation in practice is not granted anymore, though they have retained the provision in the constitution. (There is a whole back story to it from the early days of self-governance when this was once used to grant citizenship to a whole spectrum of people who were not born british subjects, but let's not get into that..). Naturalisation requires 10 of 12 years of residence, and knowledge of Malay (national language) specifically.

While the end result is practically similar, I believe the wording of the criteria for granting citizenship by registration gives the government more discretion on the approvals or rejections. To quote a regional catchphrase, Same-same, but different.

Article 129 (5) applies specifically to naturalisation, as residence was a key criteria for its grant.
That doesn't mean you're totally off the hook. There is still provision for large amounts discretion, probably more than naturalisation, that can be used to deprive citizenship of those who obtained it by registration - especially when "criminal activities which are prejudicial to the interests of public safety, peace or good order" are involved..
The question is, is this really active law? 'Registered Citizenship' could be deprive only because staying oversea for 5 years. I doubt. If anyone know more details, please share.
Good question indeed. But is in the constitution, so the government has the power to do so. But I think it refers as what subconwretch said, more towards naturalised citizens instead of registered?

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PNGMK
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 9:23 am

I think you can look for cases to conclude the answer. I personally cannot recall any press reports of a naturalized or registered citizen being stripped of their SC. Remember Singapore is a signatory to the UN convention on Statelessness which imposes a bit of a barrier.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

the observer
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by the observer » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 9:38 am

PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 01 Sep 2020 9:23 am
I think you can look for cases to conclude the answer. I personally cannot recall any press reports of a naturalized or registered citizen being stripped of their SC. Remember Singapore is a signatory to the UN convention on Statelessness which imposes a bit of a barrier.

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/m ... tch-fixing

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... enship-mha

SINGAPORE — The Government has the power to strip a naturalised citizen of his citizenship, if it is satisfied that the person had engaged in activities harmful to public safety and order, even if he is not charged or convicted in court.

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/c ... awyers-say

wona11
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Re: Moving back overseas SC/PR

Post by wona11 » Tue, 01 Sep 2020 1:34 pm

the observer wrote:
Tue, 01 Sep 2020 9:38 am
PNGMK wrote:
Tue, 01 Sep 2020 9:23 am
I think you can look for cases to conclude the answer. I personally cannot recall any press reports of a naturalized or registered citizen being stripped of their SC. Remember Singapore is a signatory to the UN convention on Statelessness which imposes a bit of a barrier.

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/m ... tch-fixing

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/ ... enship-mha

SINGAPORE — The Government has the power to strip a naturalised citizen of his citizenship, if it is satisfied that the person had engaged in activities harmful to public safety and order, even if he is not charged or convicted in court.

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/c ... awyers-say
These cases are referring to "naturalised" citizen (doubt so whether it is naturalised or registered) with a criminal offence.

well.. staying overseas .. obeying all local and international laws .. should not be a big issue right

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