Singaporean Male - German Wife : PR Chances?

[timmz88]

Hey guys,

First of all I have to say - this forum has been ultra insightful for tons of us. I do have a rather unique case though and would like to throw it out for those in a similar situation as myself. I am a Singaporean Chinese (30m) who just got married to my German wife (27f) in August 18'. As of today, we are both based in Switzerland for our work, whereby I moved to Switzerland through an internal transfer with my firm (a large management consultancy firm) to be with her. We are currently living apart though (Zurich & Geneva) due to the location of our firms and our clients - argh! Prior to living in Europe, I worked 3 years in Singapore, and in the meantime served my Reservist as a proud Singaporean!

My wife has visited Singapore multiple times as a tourist, but we decided it is time to move (back home) to Singapore and hence, we submitted her ePR application last week so that we can set up our lives there.

Some details about our case:
- Place of Marriage: Married in Singapore i.e. did the RoM and papers there
- Income: Combined pre-tax annual income with my wife of ~230k Swiss Francs i.e. 310k SGD excl. bonus
- NS Status (if relevant...): SAF Officer
- Certifications: Both of us have MSc in Finance from abroad
- Children: None

What I would like to ask is: What do you think the chances are that we attain the PR status (sometime this year I hope?!). Has any of you gurus here been in a similar situation, and have faced rejection for the PR application? If so, why and what 'tips' would you recommend to get across this hurdle?

Thank you all! Really appreciate your help and kind response

[sundaymorningstaple]

Probably have a pretty good chance but you may well find that she might be rejected in the first instance (but that usually happens when the roles/genders are reversed). As you both are sub-35 in age, I think you may well be successful, but I'd also suggest you apply for the LTVP+ for her just in case they decide to make her wait a year. But as an SAF Officer, I think that may well pull a little extra weight. I don't think you need to do anything special as you tick all the right boxes. Good incomes, good educations, young, ROM'd in Singapore originally, etc.

Go for it and keep us posted. We'd love to hear how it goes (it's also how we get all our info here!)

[timmz88]

Thank you so much for your prompt response - I really have my fingers crossed and hope for the best Another quick remark - I just logged onto the ePR portal and noticed my wife got assigned a FIN number starting with G (she has never had this as she never lived in Singapore as a resident, nor been on a work permit in any sense - only as a tourist). What does this imply (if anything at all)?

Thanks a lot! Will keep you up to date should I hear anything

[PNGMK]

A FIN is a damn good start... you're making lots of Indians very jealous.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Any application that makes it past the starting blocks be it for employment passes or other residency passes (of which PR is one) will be issued a permanent FIN number starting with either F or G (the F is actually finished as they have used up all allocations and now all are G FIN numbers. This number is permanently affixed to her and will not change if not successful and reapplied for in a later year. It would already be in the database and the same number would be assigned. The only time it would change is if she were successfully granted either PR or Citizenship. At that time the FIN number will be exchanged for a permanent NRIC number and the issuance of either a Blue (PR) or Pink (SGC) NRIC.

So, long story short. As a FIN number has been given, it's successfully in the system and now it's a waiting game. Good Luck

[timmz88]

I see - thanks so much guys! I will update you once I hear something.

[timmz88]

Hi All, Just wanted to drop a quick update: 3 months and still haven't heard back. Have my fingers crossed Hope you are all having a great day!

[Wanabe]

We applied almost the same time..mine was 24 Feb..still pending

[Kevinsmith08]

Hi All, Just wanted to drop a quick update: 3 months and still haven't heard back. Have my fingers crossed Hope you are all having a great day!

you'll have to wait more coz PR processing time is (minimum) 4-6 months usually more than that..

like SMS suggested, go ahead and apply for LTVP. It shouldn't affect your current PR application. Thats what i did. LTVP is good for 1 year. and the LTVP rejection rate will be very very low coz you're a SC.

Good luck

[RaveXP]

I applied PR on Feb 18 2019 and was approve on May 27th 2019. Wishing you all the best! would love to know how it turns out.

[timmz88]

That's great to hear RaveXP! Happy for you Was your situation similar to mine? In addition, Kevinsmith08 - that is our plan actually, to apply for the LTVP. I understand that with the LTVP, the applicant may apply for a Pre-approved Letter of Consent that puts the applicant at the same status as a Singaporean PR or a Singaporean Citizen. Would that be correct to assume?

[sundaymorningstaple]

That is NOT correct. Why would they bother to give you a PLOC if it had the same status as a PR or Citizen. You actually think that they are that stupid? Do you also think that a PR has the same status as a citizen?

[timmz88]

Calm down sundaymorningstaple I am simply quoting two sources which I suspect are at least marginally credible (PwC and EY). I have attached the links below here for your reference:

EY: https://www.ey.com/gl/en/services/peopl ... ent-option

PwC: https://www.pwc.com/gx/en/services/peop ... ildren.pdf

Now obviously, being a Singapore Citizen myself, I would not expect a PR to have equal rights to any SC. This is clear. What I meant was purely in the view of considerations for a potential position (in the event a PR or SC can't be found). In the articles above, and I quote: 'As only a notification to the MOM is required to hire PLOC holders, PLOC candidates are able to commence work with prospective employers promptly. Moreover, PLOC holders do not count towards foreign worker quota and are not subject to the monthly levy payable, or the Fair Consideration Framework legislation. This makes them an attractive population to employ and puts them on par with the hiring of Singaporeans/Permanent Residents.'

Interested to hear your thoughts and to debate more on this article. I am certain that I am not the only one looking at this topic, and could be of interest to a wider population on this forum.

Cheers
Tim

[sundaymorningstaple]

The LoC has been around for a fair number of years already (about 5 if my memory serves). In fact, I put one of my S pass holders on one of the very first LoC granted here (I was an HR Mgr in a Medium Sized SME with around 225 staff at the time). In those days the LoC was virtually instantaneous (3 days Max without any hindrances normally) Sadly, like almost every good thing the government does here, there are a group of FT's and Employers who take advantage of a good thing. In this case, they were picking up trailing spouses with degrees and putting them into low paying admin jobs, to the detriment of local employees. Eventually this became a sore point (If you are a citizen I don't have to remind you of the 2011 and 2015 GEs.).

In the aftermath of the 2015 GE, they started clamping down on the willy-nilly handing out of LoCs and the applicant now needed to have been actually doing that kind of work or something similar instead of only having a degree. In other words, they had to be qualified for that type of position but the educational levels that were required for the issuance of a proper employment pass were disregarded. This also brought up another issue (which ultimately culminated into the PLoC of today). This was the fact that initially the LoC was only allowed to Dependent Pass Holders (e.g., trailing spouse of an EP or S pass holder (before the current restrictions on spouses accompanying S Pass holder as trailing spouses). Because of this a lot of hard feelings were voiced by SG citizens with foreign spouses who were here on LTVPs. They were prevented from getting the LoC which realistically was not a fair deal to SG Citizens when it was only being offered to the spouses of Employment Pass holders.

To placate the local citizens with foreign spouses, the LoC was created and then subsequently it was open to LTVP or LTVP+, again, because a dependent pass holder didn't have to wait 2 years before getting the LTVP+. (The time it usually took for a spouse of a SG citizen to move from an LTVP to an LTVP+ which allow for the application for the LoC. So, to move to the current position which was about a year ago (early 2018 I believe) They created the PLoC to bring the ability up to equal to Dependent Pass holders. Again, you should be used to these type of government tactics, where they won't admit they blew it, but keep nibbling around the edges so the general public isn't that aware that they blew it.

My other comments come from the fact that I've been here 36 years and been a PR for over 25 of them and I've watch/felt all the changes that make PR so far and away different from citizens that the only thing we have left in common (more or less) is that we pay more taxes than locals do (although the tax rates are the same, most of our subsidies that we used to be entitled to have, just like the LoC but in reverse, been nibbled away until we have virtually no subsidies at all, cannot vote, and can lose our PR if we fail to renew our re-entry permit before going on vacation for a couple of days. And can only buy resale flats at inflated prices from mercenary locals who refuse to sell to locals because they know PRs have to have a place to live. But our sons have to protect your arses doing your National Service as well. So, until you have walked a kilometer in our shoes......

sms

[sundaymorningstaple]

Oh, another thing. This only puts them on par with Employment Pass holder. Not SC or PR. SC or PR are not restricted to what jobs they can hold and they also don't lose their pass as PR or SC doesn't expire. The LoC does the same time the LTVP expires, just like the Loc held by a DP's spouse expires when the EP holders' pass expires.

The quota and levies were never impacted by the LoC so there is no change there at all.