PR Approval Probability 2021

Relocating, travelling or planning to make Singapore home? Discuss the criterias, passes or visa that is required.
ec777
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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by ec777 » Thu, 22 Jul 2021 1:33 pm

Thank you, appreciate the feedback!
singaporeflyer wrote:
Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:48 am
ec777 wrote:
Thu, 22 Jul 2021 10:27 am
Hi everyone, I am wondering if there is anything else I can include in my application to increase my chances other than including my son? Such as providing proof of charitable donations I have made or getting recommendations from Singaporeans?
ec777 wrote:
Wed, 21 Jul 2021 4:36 pm
Thank you for the input! I was under the impression that not including my son would lower my chances but didn't know that it would be a deal-breaker.

Including your kid is surely needed and there is no work around without doing it.
Donations and recommendations are not helpful in general.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by ec777 » Thu, 22 Jul 2021 1:38 pm

Thank you very much for the feedback. I just want to clarify that I don't want my son to avoid national services if he decides to stay in Singapore with me and my wife. I simply want him to be able to make his own choice when he gets a little older. For example, if he decides to stay in Singapore with me and my wife I definitely wants him to serve but if he decides to go back to the US and go through the US educational system, I wouldn't want him to be held back for two years and be older than his colleagues over there as I know how stringent US recruitment for major professional firms work. Maybe I am thinking way too much into the future...

Thank you all for your helpful feedback!
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 22 Jul 2021 12:54 pm
ec777 wrote:
Tue, 20 Jul 2021 8:28 pm
I am currently applying for PR for myself and my wife for the second time (I also have a 3-year-old son but will not be applying for him). Below is my family's profile:
ec777, for the record my son was born in Singapore (I'm an AMVET-NAM) and I strongly believe in Military Service (but that's just me). My son had dual citizenship till he was 21 and decided to stay here as did his older sister. But he was registered both for NS and the US Selective Service as back in those days I was still not firmly entrenched here like I am now. While the US Selective Service has been mothballed since 1975, it pays to have your son registered there so if later he wants to join the civil service in the US, he gets extra points if registered even if he didn't serve. (something to think about). But I was more adamant that he do his NS in Singapore as the odds of getting sent to a war zone that he didn't belong in was virtually zero. As I told him, he is going to do National Service, either here or in the US. (He did his NS in the SG Navy) Oh, if a US citizen is not living in the US, the odds of being called up in a draft are next to zero. And the draft will not be activated unless there is an all out declaration of war (not police actions - although for the troops on the ground there damn little difference.)

Having said that, Singapore has the lowest TFR in the world, this means they do not have sufficient manpower for their military, hence the dependence on electronic warfare. They need manpower. If a person wants Permanent Residence here (be it PR or SGC) and they have a son who is kept off the NS rolls, it means there are at least 2 (or more) people who are sponging off the government, making good money and saying screw you. I'm gonna take what I can and damn the torpedoes. Well the ICA has seen that happen all to often and at least for the last 20 years if you have a son(s) and don't include him/them on the application, you are just wasting their time, your time and the application fee. The government doesn't need or want those who are just 'takers'.

Been there, done that, and so has my son (who is now 32, married to a local gal and has given me a G.daughter).

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Thu, 22 Jul 2021 7:07 pm

ec777 wrote:
Thu, 22 Jul 2021 1:38 pm
Thank you very much for the feedback. I just want to clarify that I don't want my son to avoid national services if he decides to stay in Singapore with me and my wife. I simply want him to be able to make his own choice when he gets a little older. For example, if he decides to stay in Singapore with me and my wife I definitely wants him to serve but if he decides to go back to the US and go through the US educational system, I wouldn't want him to be held back for two years and be older than his colleagues over there as I know how stringent US recruitment for major professional firms work. Maybe I am thinking way too much into the future...

Thank you all for your helpful feedback!
Suffice it to say, only you and your son can make those choices. I acknowledge that. In fact, what you have just written I've written on this forum many, many years ago. Much in the same vein. to wit.....

From the time my son was old enough to hold a conversation and listen (4 ish?) every year, I sat him down and talked to him about his future and both his and our stake in it. He could have gone back to the US and lived there while schooling but would only be with G.parents and not the immediate family. The US could again shoot itself in the foot just like it did in '64 and in numerous other places since. The draft could well be reenacted and he not have any choice. Or he could stay here where he's lived his whole life except for the odd trip to the US on occasion (a place he's never actually lived in). A place where he has friends, maybe future girlfriends, and most importantly the support of his immediate family. But at the end of the day, the choice was going to be his. He has to make his bed in this life and he has to sleep in it. This dirtball floating through space is awfully small today in terms of travel time. It would be a shame if he were to finish his education in the US, join an MNC and they wanted to send him to head up their operations in Singpore for AsiaPac. It would really be a bummer not to be able to join the family here because ICA & MOM wouldn't give him the requisite work pass. Wonder who the Son would blame? Food for thought. At least my way, my son always had the choice as I was not going to be responsible for potentially ruining his life. My ensuring both of my children took Mandarin as their Second language was also for long range thinking. Both of them are fluent in Mandarin and nobody in our household is Chinese or mandarin speakers. Another facet of talking to your kids from the time they were infants and could only take information in, as they couldn't talk yet, but eventually when then could the decision was theirs to take Mandarin as the seeds had been planted early on. Again, the whole reason for this was in case after 2 decades here should they decide to opt for USC, Being Caucasian and fluent in Mandarin would be a plus in any MNC when it came to International relocation. Turns out is was also a blessing locally as well.

Wish you well whichever way you go, but if you don't put him in, rejection is almost guaranteed.
Life isn't about avoiding the bruises. It's about collecting the scars to prove we showed up for it!

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by ec777 » Fri, 23 Jul 2021 2:29 pm

Thank you for this response. I am really glad someone understands what I am going through, gives me a lot of comfort.

I am going to take some time to make a decision on this but what do you think my chances are if I was to apply together with my son?
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Thu, 22 Jul 2021 7:07 pm
ec777 wrote:
Thu, 22 Jul 2021 1:38 pm
Thank you very much for the feedback. I just want to clarify that I don't want my son to avoid national services if he decides to stay in Singapore with me and my wife. I simply want him to be able to make his own choice when he gets a little older. For example, if he decides to stay in Singapore with me and my wife I definitely wants him to serve but if he decides to go back to the US and go through the US educational system, I wouldn't want him to be held back for two years and be older than his colleagues over there as I know how stringent US recruitment for major professional firms work. Maybe I am thinking way too much into the future...

Thank you all for your helpful feedback!
Suffice it to say, only you and your son can make those choices. I acknowledge that. In fact, what you have just written I've written on this forum many, many years ago. Much in the same vein. to wit.....

From the time my son was old enough to hold a conversation and listen (4 ish?) every year, I sat him down and talked to him about his future and both his and our stake in it. He could have gone back to the US and lived there while schooling but would only be with G.parents and not the immediate family. The US could again shoot itself in the foot just like it did in '64 and in numerous other places since. The draft could well be reenacted and he not have any choice. Or he could stay here where he's lived his whole life except for the odd trip to the US on occasion (a place he's never actually lived in). A place where he has friends, maybe future girlfriends, and most importantly the support of his immediate family. But at the end of the day, the choice was going to be his. He has to make his bed in this life and he has to sleep in it. This dirtball floating through space is awfully small today in terms of travel time. It would be a shame if he were to finish his education in the US, join an MNC and they wanted to send him to head up their operations in Singpore for AsiaPac. It would really be a bummer not to be able to join the family here because ICA & MOM wouldn't give him the requisite work pass. Wonder who the Son would blame? Food for thought. At least my way, my son always had the choice as I was not going to be responsible for potentially ruining his life. My ensuring both of my children took Mandarin as their Second language was also for long range thinking. Both of them are fluent in Mandarin and nobody in our household is Chinese or mandarin speakers. Another facet of talking to your kids from the time they were infants and could only take information in, as they couldn't talk yet, but eventually when then could the decision was theirs to take Mandarin as the seeds had been planted early on. Again, the whole reason for this was in case after 2 decades here should they decide to opt for USC, Being Caucasian and fluent in Mandarin would be a plus in any MNC when it came to International relocation. Turns out is was also a blessing locally as well.

Wish you well whichever way you go, but if you don't put him in, rejection is almost guaranteed.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Fri, 23 Jul 2021 5:36 pm

Personally, I think you tick ALL the right boxes for PR from ethnicity to education to current job/connections with the thinkers here. The only flaw which is a deal breaker is the lack of inclusion of your son. You should wait until you have passed 2 years since your previous rejection. While this isn't noted anywhere in writing, 16 years of doing this on this forum has giving us a lot of anecdotal evidence and insight and it would seem the 24 month from marriage, from obtaining PR if applying for SGC, from a previous rejection or from a marriage. All seem to be more successful or less rejections than those who appear to be in a hurry like they are Kiasi.

Some other anecdotal evidence. We've had PRs who have done what you are thinking about. It almost always ends badly because by the time that they have to leave Singapore (once they finish their schooling on Student Visas, they will not be allow to become Dependent Pass holders, and their LTVP will expire and they will have to leave the country. Additionally, There is a good possibility, even with the right creds, may not be able to even get a EP. I know this from VERY CLOSE hand, as my ex-boss (I retired 2 years ago) is married to a Eastern European and the child had UK citizenship so daddy (my boss-who is an SGC) puts the kindergarten age son on a student visa under his PR wife. He stayed here all through is schooling (A levels - High School Diploma for us) Then went back to the UK where he did his BSc & MSc in Civil Engrg. He came back to Singapore and his father asked me to apply for his EP to work in the Company (Father owned the company). It was rejected, time and time again, rejected. The reason was always the same, "You have unresolved issues with Mindef." I told my boss what was going to happen when the boy was still in secondary school. Boss was a card carrying PAP member, thought he could pull it off. Didn't work. I knew it wouldn't as the government is not going to set a precedence like that. Today, Son is in Yangon as the MD of the Singapore company's subsidiary set up specifically so he could be closer to the family and not in the UK. Not sure how he is doing with the covid situation and the coup in Myanmar at the moment.

Think long and hard about it. That is my best advice.
Life isn't about avoiding the bruises. It's about collecting the scars to prove we showed up for it!

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by reddotaspirant » Fri, 23 Jul 2021 6:45 pm

Hi,

Who should be the main applicant for PR application of a couple having following family profile?

Husband:
Age: 32
Race: Indian
Nationality: Indian
Education: Bachelors in Engineering from India
Length of stay/Working in Singapore: 3 years 7 months
Income tax Assessment: 3
Job: Software developer in global bank
Number of job changes in Singapore: 2 (currently with third employer)
Current Annual Salary: ~125k + variable bonus
Total Work Experience: 11 years
Current Pass: EP

Wife:
Age: 33
Race: Indian
Nationality: Indian
Education: Bachelors in Engineering from India
Length of stay/Working in Singapore: 3 years 3 months
Income tax Assessment: 3
Job: Software developer in global bank
Number of job changes in Singapore: 0
Current Annual Salary: ~120k + variable bonus
Total Work Experience: 11 years
Current Pass: EP

Kids: No

Our profile is almost similar but mrs has not changed employers while in Singapore and has higher+stable salary during our stay here. On the other hand I have changed employers couple of times which might go as negative but I have a bit higher salary now and few months extra residence in Singapore.

What do you think - who should be the main applicant considering above points?

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by singaporeflyer » Fri, 23 Jul 2021 7:35 pm

reddotaspirant wrote:
Fri, 23 Jul 2021 6:45 pm
Hi,

Who should be the main applicant for PR application of a couple having following family profile?

Husband:
Age: 32
Race: Indian
Nationality: Indian
Education: Bachelors in Engineering from India
Length of stay/Working in Singapore: 3 years 7 months
Income tax Assessment: 3
Job: Software developer in global bank
Number of job changes in Singapore: 2 (currently with third employer)
Current Annual Salary: ~125k + variable bonus
Total Work Experience: 11 years
Current Pass: EP

Wife:
Age: 33
Race: Indian
Nationality: Indian
Education: Bachelors in Engineering from India
Length of stay/Working in Singapore: 3 years 3 months
Income tax Assessment: 3
Job: Software developer in global bank
Number of job changes in Singapore: 0
Current Annual Salary: ~120k + variable bonus
Total Work Experience: 11 years
Current Pass: EP

Kids: No

Our profile is almost similar but mrs has not changed employers while in Singapore and has higher+stable salary during our stay here. On the other hand I have changed employers couple of times which might go as negative but I have a bit higher salary now and few months extra residence in Singapore.

What do you think - who should be the main applicant considering above points?
Either can be the main applicant as the profiles are very close. But chance wise, it is going to be little low.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by reddotaspirant » Fri, 23 Jul 2021 7:48 pm

singaporeflyer wrote:
Fri, 23 Jul 2021 7:35 pm
reddotaspirant wrote:
Fri, 23 Jul 2021 6:45 pm
Hi,

Who should be the main applicant for PR application of a couple having following family profile?

Husband:
Age: 32
Race: Indian
Nationality: Indian
Education: Bachelors in Engineering from India
Length of stay/Working in Singapore: 3 years 7 months
Income tax Assessment: 3
Job: Software developer in global bank
Number of job changes in Singapore: 2 (currently with third employer)
Current Annual Salary: ~125k + variable bonus
Total Work Experience: 11 years
Current Pass: EP

Wife:
Age: 33
Race: Indian
Nationality: Indian
Education: Bachelors in Engineering from India
Length of stay/Working in Singapore: 3 years 3 months
Income tax Assessment: 3
Job: Software developer in global bank
Number of job changes in Singapore: 0
Current Annual Salary: ~120k + variable bonus
Total Work Experience: 11 years
Current Pass: EP

Kids: No

Our profile is almost similar but mrs has not changed employers while in Singapore and has higher+stable salary during our stay here. On the other hand I have changed employers couple of times which might go as negative but I have a bit higher salary now and few months extra residence in Singapore.

What do you think - who should be the main applicant considering above points?
Either can be the main applicant as the profiles are very close. But chance wise, it is going to be little low.
Thanks! Low chances due to race and duration of stay, is it?

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by sp786 » Sat, 24 Jul 2021 11:57 am

Reddotaspirant , SG follows ethnicity ratio for PRs. Indians come under minority and this is not like Australia or Canada or erstwhile EU/UK.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by reddotaspirant » Sat, 24 Jul 2021 3:16 pm

sp786 wrote:
Sat, 24 Jul 2021 11:57 am
Reddotaspirant , SG follows ethnicity ratio for PRs. Indians come under minority and this is not like Australia or Canada or erstwhile EU/UK.
I am aware of this fact. I am sorry but how does it relate to my query?

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by singaporeflyer » Sat, 24 Jul 2021 6:02 pm

reddotaspirant wrote:
Sat, 24 Jul 2021 3:16 pm
sp786 wrote:
Sat, 24 Jul 2021 11:57 am
Reddotaspirant , SG follows ethnicity ratio for PRs. Indians come under minority and this is not like Australia or Canada or erstwhile EU/UK.
I am aware of this fact. I am sorry but how does it relate to my query?
He has said that since there are quotas, yes chance is going to be less. Also, yes your duration of working in SG is not long. But I still feel the ethnic quota availability to be the key reason.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by Intuitivemind » Tue, 27 Jul 2021 9:57 pm

Hi, I would like to know what is the current trend on PR approval. I am a EP holder( recently,, was on DP previously) . I am in IT in one of the banks. I am in Singapore for 7 years. My husband is a Tech VP in a bank too. He is here for 13 years since he graduated. Both are Indians. Have completed Bachelors in Information Technology Engineering. We have a daughter currently going to K1 in a childcare. we applied pr in 2016, 2017 , Dec 2020. The third one also got rejected. I was on DP then. What are the chances of getting PR? We are planning to apply this year again 6 months after the rejection. The family income is around 215k. Thank you.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by singaporeflyer » Tue, 27 Jul 2021 10:02 pm

Intuitivemind wrote:
Tue, 27 Jul 2021 9:57 pm
Hi, I would like to know what is the current trend on PR approval. I am a EP holder( recently,, was on DP previously) . I am in IT in one of the banks. I am in Singapore for 7 years. My husband is a Tech VP in a bank too. He is here for 13 years since he graduated. Both are Indians. Have completed Bachelors in Information Technology Engineering. We have a daughter currently going to K1 in a childcare. we applied pr in 2016, 2017 , Dec 2020. The third one also got rejected. I was on DP then. What are the chances of getting PR? We are planning to apply this year again 6 months after the rejection. The family income is around 215k. Thank you.
Try again after 6 months. the main factor will be the ethnic quota and not salary in your case.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Wed, 28 Jul 2021 11:49 am

Intuitivemind wrote:
Tue, 27 Jul 2021 9:57 pm
Hi, I would like to know what is the current trend on PR approval.
Intuitivemind, please do not spam the board with multiple identical posts. It is aggravation for our readers who usually read all threads with new posts. When they see the same posts in multiple threads, then we get called and you end up with multiple posts deleted. Just like your time, their time is valuable as they moderate free and most work hard for a living just like you. Thanks.

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Re: PR Approval Probability 2021

Post by ec777 » Wed, 28 Jul 2021 1:44 pm

sundaymorning staple, thank you very much for sharing your first hand experience, this is extremely helpful. I appreciate you taking the time to provide me with these advices, I will make the decision soon.
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Fri, 23 Jul 2021 5:36 pm
Personally, I think you tick ALL the right boxes for PR from ethnicity to education to current job/connections with the thinkers here. The only flaw which is a deal breaker is the lack of inclusion of your son. You should wait until you have passed 2 years since your previous rejection. While this isn't noted anywhere in writing, 16 years of doing this on this forum has giving us a lot of anecdotal evidence and insight and it would seem the 24 month from marriage, from obtaining PR if applying for SGC, from a previous rejection or from a marriage. All seem to be more successful or less rejections than those who appear to be in a hurry like they are Kiasi.

Some other anecdotal evidence. We've had PRs who have done what you are thinking about. It almost always ends badly because by the time that they have to leave Singapore (once they finish their schooling on Student Visas, they will not be allow to become Dependent Pass holders, and their LTVP will expire and they will have to leave the country. Additionally, There is a good possibility, even with the right creds, may not be able to even get a EP. I know this from VERY CLOSE hand, as my ex-boss (I retired 2 years ago) is married to a Eastern European and the child had UK citizenship so daddy (my boss-who is an SGC) puts the kindergarten age son on a student visa under his PR wife. He stayed here all through is schooling (A levels - High School Diploma for us) Then went back to the UK where he did his BSc & MSc in Civil Engrg. He came back to Singapore and his father asked me to apply for his EP to work in the Company (Father owned the company). It was rejected, time and time again, rejected. The reason was always the same, "You have unresolved issues with Mindef." I told my boss what was going to happen when the boy was still in secondary school. Boss was a card carrying PAP member, thought he could pull it off. Didn't work. I knew it wouldn't as the government is not going to set a precedence like that. Today, Son is in Yangon as the MD of the Singapore company's subsidiary set up specifically so he could be closer to the family and not in the UK. Not sure how he is doing with the covid situation and the coup in Myanmar at the moment.

Think long and hard about it. That is my best advice.

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