Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by sundaymorningstaple » Mon, 18 Feb 2019 12:12 am

Sadly, this board isn't a mutual masturbation society. We are here to give you the facts as we know them. It's not a feel good society but a place to gain knowledge, even if it goes against what you want to hear. We are always open to new suggestion or facts as they change. It's what we do.
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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 18 Feb 2019 9:33 am

I think Cohen one answer if you have a significant CPF account is to use a stepping stone country where is no tax levied on a CPF withdrawal before becoming resident in a high tax country such as Australia.
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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by Cohen123 » Mon, 18 Feb 2019 2:00 pm

Thanks PNGMK,

I appreciate your earnest in providing your perspective.

St the moment, to declare yourself non-resident of Aus, you need to be away at least 2 years and establish domicile elsewhere. It is not an option for me, unfortunately.

I have already spoken to 4 accountants about this. Each of them have a differing perspective which is really unsettling. So even if I engage one, there is no way to know to know if his/her interpretation is right. That is, until the enquiry letter comes.

It now remains to be seen what happens when I finally transfer the amount.

And yes agreed, I am not looking in this forum for misinformation to deceive myself. Just to arm myself with the right info.

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 18 Feb 2019 5:27 pm

Personally I would take the approach that mistakes are permitted in a tax form for a person who files his own paper work, hene I would not declare it (as some accountants believe you don't have a liability) and then ask for a ruling if the ATO disagree.

Note that accountants in Australia are NOTORIOUSLY conservative as they don't want to be pinged by the ATO and in essence they act as a defacto arm of the ATO if they lodge your return! The way I get CPA advice is to buy a friend who is a CPA a beer, talk off the record and then do my own returns.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by Cohen123 » Mon, 18 Feb 2019 5:52 pm

Hi PNGMK,

It’s funny that I don’t have any accountant friends. I may ask if any of them have any accountant friends. May be big ask. Don’t know until I try, right ?

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by PNGMK » Mon, 18 Feb 2019 8:56 pm

Essentially you won't get any leeway if an accountant files your return.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by Cohen123 » Tue, 19 Feb 2019 12:09 pm

Yes. That is why I am only enlisting the tax account for the tax advice. I have also contacted a couple of tax lawyers.

This is what was advised.

I have no other asset outside of Aus so my tax filing is simple. I just have to declare the interest earned 31st December 2018. I have not renounced yet so the realisation of the cash lump sum does not need to declared yet.

When I transfer the sum over, it will trigger some tax reporting event. Only there and then, I will be required to state my objections to any exaggerated amended assessment. This will also trigger the tax lawyer do his job. The tax lawyer advised that until there is a dispute in tax assessment, there is no need for him to step in.

Nothing to do before then. (Except to start the renunciation process)

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 19 Feb 2019 2:18 pm

I don't agree with this: "When I transfer the sum over, it will trigger some tax reporting event."

The only time you are legally required to report tax events is when you file income tax after June 30 2019. Any other taxes (GST, stamp duty) do not require you to report.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by Mad Scientist » Tue, 19 Feb 2019 2:24 pm

Mate. I think you worried too much and too far.
Take one thing at a time
Disclaimer, I am not an accountant nor a lawyer. I do not know the inside out of ATO

I filed in my own tax return on both side of the ditch. No accountant no tax lawyer. You make mistake you own up and ATO or IRDNZ correct you.
Ignorance is a bliss
Having said that, my tax return to ATO is bugger all
I still have saving in Singapore and other countries
CSR declaration to my understanding is mainly focused on US regulatory. You declare it when you change your tax residence from SG to OZ. If you just bank it in at POSB or ask them to wire it straight , no need to do any CSR declaration. That is what I did
It is the same when you change your residence status for your insurance policy.
I guess you are already on your super if you are not then only then this income/saving will come into play but if you park it in other instrument there is no need for this worry. I'm doing it .
I'm not teaching you to circumvent the law but all of us that did this way has no qualms
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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by Cohen123 » Tue, 19 Feb 2019 2:41 pm

Hello, would be a tax resident here. The sum transferred will go into financial planning strategies here. Hence the transfer. I don’t have any other assets anywhere else.

The “tax event trigger” the accountants and lawyers are referring may mean one of several things
(1) a letter to explain source of funds from ATO/AUSTRA C ;or
(2) in the other scenario, an amended tax return. I don’t know how that can happen. It was not explained to me.

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by PNGMK » Tue, 19 Feb 2019 6:27 pm

Whatever you do don't use BTC to transfer it.
I not lawyer/teacher/CPA.
You've been arrested? Law Society of Singapore can provide referrals.
You want an International School job? School website or http://www.ISS.edu
Your rugrat needs a School? Avoid for profit schools
You need Tax advice? Ask a CPA
You ran away without doing NS? Shame on you!

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by Cohen123 » Tue, 19 Feb 2019 7:08 pm

Yes, I heard about that too. I hear funds get stuck in the “pipeline “

Reliable options available are
(1) direct to overseas bank if CPF does that
(2) from Sg bank to Aus bank

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by flaming_vines » Tue, 03 Aug 2021 3:19 pm

Hi Cohen and to anyone who knows

I know this thread has been inactive for some time now. I am in a similar situation. I am planning to renounce and withdraw my CPF this year. I have a couple of questions if you don't mind.

1. I read that you said CPF is not treated as Super here in Oz (based on talking to tax agents). As such, the tax will cover even before becoming an Oz resident. Just to clarify - Does that mean even before getting your Oz Permanent VISA? I understand the concept of having an Oz VISA and being an Oz resident for tax purposes is totally different. The reason I am asking is that - my timeline is as follows:
Singapore PR since 2008
Obtain Oz Resident VISA while offshore (in Singapore) 2018 - I just did an entry to satisfy the initial entry conditions in 2019 but return to Singapore afterwards
Became an Oz tax resident by moving to Oz permanently: 2020
Hence, my question - for tax purposes, does it cover even before I have my resident VISA and spanning since day 1 of CPF (2008)?

2. How is lumpsum tax computed? I assume that it is accounting ONLY the interest? (be it if it is the whole CPF lifetime or just while an Oz tax resident as question above)
Assuming you have a total of 300K of CPF.
- Original employee and employer contribution were 260K
- Interest (40K)
For tax purposes, only the 40k (interest) is subject to your marginal tax right (ex 40K*37.5%)?
I think it is already unfair if they are going to tax the whole CPF lifetime interest, but the idea of taxing the whole CPF (including contribution) is beyond me. The reason I ask this is because super contribution here in Oz is taxed not only interest.

Appreciate anybody who can answer my questions. Thank you so much!

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Re: Bank Account after renouncing SG-ship

Post by malcontent » Tue, 03 Aug 2021 10:00 pm

Most countries treat CPF like any other bank account… money was deposited as earned and interest is accrued (presumably while you were a Singapore tax resident), so when the time comes to withdraw it, it’s like taking money out of any other bank account. Therefore, once you become a tax resident of another country, you can withdraw the money. The only interest that is taxable in the new jurisdiction is that which accrues in the account after the tax residency has been established.

That is all generally speaking. There are always going to be exceptions, depending on the country involved. For example, if your CPF is converted to a CPF LIFE annuity between age 65-70 after becoming US tax resident - there is a special US tax rule on annuities where if they are purchased with previously untaxed dollars in a foreign country while working there as a nonresident alien prior to becoming a US tax resident, then the entire annuity payment is US taxable to the annuitant.

The only way to get complete and accurate advice for your particular tax circumstances is to contact a CPA in the country of tax residence, not on a forum like this.
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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