Moving from Bay Area to Singapore

[baytobeach]

Hi all - we are a couple in our 30's, originally from India, presently living in the US, and will be moving to Singapore some time in the next few months.

I've been looking through some of these forums, and there seems to be a wealth of information on here - look forward to meeting some of you at the various Expat Forum meetups whenever the world gets back to normal!

Now on to a question - I received my EP approval (~4 weeks from submission), following which my employer submitted my spouse's Dependant Pass application. Does anyone know how long this DP review & approval typically takes?

[digitalfruits18]

Don't do it. Nothing like the US for Indian expats.

[malcontent]

I would be more worried about the remuneration and the expat package being offered. While the cost of housing in the Bay Area is close to Singapore, it is not going to be apples to apples. The cost of owning a car and going to school is very significant, not just double, many multiples higher. The cost of vacations is also higher since you’ll have to fly the whole family to most destinations rather than driving. You will only save on eating out and taking public transit, and those aren’t typically big budget items.

The DP will be approved promptly as long as your salary meets the threshold stipulated.

[MOCHS]

The post is from 4 years ago… You can easily search OP’s post history to see what happened next.

[malcontent]

The post is from 4 years ago… You can easily search OP’s post history to see what happened next.

Thanks MOCHS - I need to pay closer attention, but hopefully the info I posted is relevant to more than just the OP.

[NYY1]

As noted, this post was from four plus years ago. Also, the cost items mentioned are certainly worth considering (especially out of pocket school fees if you would otherwise be paying nothing in a public school).

That being said, with the exception of a car, costs in Singapore are not much different (+/-) compared to costs in other global cities (housing and private or int'l schooling for kids being the big items). Further, if someone is coming from a tech (or finance) hub, there is a good chance they are actually making more after taxes and all expenses (even so, there are other good reasons to stay in the main hubs).

There's no doubt that some people have been squeezed / it doesn't make economic sense for them to come here long-term.

At the same time, another poster previously commented elsewhere in the forum that after walking around the CBD, one could tell things have changed over the last 5-10 years. Maybe that is why people still come here and the costs we see are what they are?

[malcontent]

I’ve been going back and forth between Singapore and California over the past 4 months now as we settle in to our new (fire rimmed) home. Although things like eating out at a restaurant is generally more, grocery prices are usually less. Even Jasmine Thai rice, US$17.99 at Costco for 25lb (11kg) is less than the Royal Umbrella we had been buying at NTUC. The only significantly cheaper item I’ve found in Singapore is Gillette razor blades… even Costco on sale at US$1.50 a blade for Mach3 cannot touch the gray goods sold in SG.

[NYY1]

I’ve been going back and forth between Singapore and California over the past 4 months now as we settle in to our new (fire rimmed) home. Although things like eating out at a restaurant is generally more, grocery prices are usually less. Even Jasmine Thai rice, US$17.99 at Costco for 25lb (11kg) is less than the Royal Umbrella we had been buying at NTUC. The only significantly cheaper item I’ve found in Singapore is Gillette razor blades… even Costco on sale at US$1.50 a blade for Mach3 cannot touch the gray goods sold in SG.

LOL, let's compare nickels and dimes. Although I do agree; retail goods are usually cheaper in the US, but services with large wage components are more expensive. For the latter, maybe consider routine healthcare/dental/optical costs (both the explicit and the implicit costs) and household help/maintenance services before one concludes a razor blade is the only significantly cheaper item?

Anyways, perhaps look at the top marginal tax rates and whether income on capital is taxed in different locations around the world and then think about how those factors may impact what someone is left with after all expenses.

For housing, size and type can be different, and one could say this impacts quality of life. However, for many affluent wage earners I doubt the total housing cost is much different from place to place (probably US$2 - US$5 million in the coastal hubs or other global cities. To be clear, I'm not saying someone needs to spend this much on housing, as there are cheaper alternatives. Just saying I think the cost can be about the same when looking at comparable cities).

In general, we can look at the 50 cents difference on a gallon of milk (or whatever the amount is for numerous small tickets) or think about things that really move the needle.

Is Singapore comparable or cheaper for everyone? No, some people will incur significant additional costs. At the same time, it's not really any more expensive for a lot of people either (already paying school fees, going to take transcontinental vacations regardless of where they are based, don't have a car in either location, etc, etc) and may even be cheaper.

[MOCHS]

SG imports virtually everything. We don’t produce much (other than eggs and some veggies & fish), so we can’t really compare the price of groceries if country X is already producing its own milk, fruit, meat, etc in the first place.

At least we don’t have to do mental gymnastics to add XX% tip while eating out. I’m still feeling a little miffed at tipping for bubble tea in NYC since I’m not at a sit down restaurant, I’m just at your small shop and taking away the drink. :/

[malcontent]

SG imports virtually everything. We don’t produce much (other than eggs and some veggies & fish), so we can’t really compare the price of groceries if country X is already producing its own milk, fruit, meat, etc in the first place.

At least we don’t have to do mental gymnastics to add XX% tip while eating out. I’m still feeling a little miffed at tipping for bubble tea in NYC since I’m not at a sit down restaurant, I’m just at your small shop and taking away the drink. :/

There is absolutely NO tipping expectation for take out. The practice of a screen prompt for tips has been highly controversial; called “guilt tipping” - companies have capitalized on this… not to reward their employees, but to fatten their profits. A little known fact, more than half of all take out orders get zero tip.

I do not tip when prompted on screen and ONLY give cash tips at full service, sit down restaurants. I withdraw small cash just for this purpose. Think of it this way, only tip in the US where you would pay a 10% service charge in Singapore. You can also ignore the tip suggestions, which are nonsense - even the lowest one is overly generous. In places like California, there is no more tipped wage — they are now full wage workers, so the national tip guidelines no longer apply (but on screen prompts don’t take this into account).

[malcontent]

I’ve been going back and forth between Singapore and California over the past 4 months now as we settle in to our new (fire rimmed) home. Although things like eating out at a restaurant is generally more, grocery prices are usually less. Even Jasmine Thai rice, US$17.99 at Costco for 25lb (11kg) is less than the Royal Umbrella we had been buying at NTUC. The only significantly cheaper item I’ve found in Singapore is Gillette razor blades… even Costco on sale at US$1.50 a blade for Mach3 cannot touch the gray goods sold in SG.

LOL, let's compare nickels and dimes. Although I do agree; retail goods are usually cheaper in the US, but services with large wage components are more expensive. For the latter, maybe consider routine healthcare/dental/optical costs (both the explicit and the implicit costs) and household help/maintenance services before one concludes a razor blade is the only significantly cheaper item?

Anyways, perhaps look at the top marginal tax rates and whether income on capital is taxed in different locations around the world and then think about how those factors may impact what someone is left with after all expenses.

For housing, size and type can be different, and one could say this impacts quality of life. However, for many affluent wage earners I doubt the total housing cost is much different from place to place (probably US$2 - US$5 million in the coastal hubs or other global cities. To be clear, I'm not saying someone needs to spend this much on housing, as there are cheaper alternatives. Just saying I think the cost can be about the same when looking at comparable cities).

In general, we can look at the 50 cents difference on a gallon of milk (or whatever the amount is for numerous small tickets) or think about things that really move the needle.

Is Singapore comparable or cheaper for everyone? No, some people will incur significant additional costs. At the same time, it's not really any more expensive for a lot of people either (already paying school fees, going to take transcontinental vacations regardless of where they are based, don't have a car in either location, etc, etc) and may even be cheaper.

Like the old saying, it’s not the high cost of living, but the cost of living high. I know this to be true as a single person. Housing you can rent a room, car you can do without, and food you can adapt, leisure you can forgo… this describes me well during my first 6-7 years in Singapore. And yes, I kept my costs down to the same level as the U.S., but with a huge drop in material lifestyle. However, if you have a family, and especially school aged children… it’s a totally different ball game, unless can localize before that happens.

I agree with your nickel/dime comment, but there wasn’t much else I could think of. The big picture advantages you mention seem more geared toward those with above average wealth/income, that would certainly be a different ball game. If I were in Singapore’s 23-24% tax bracket… I might have just done that.

[NYY1]

Like the old saying, it’s not the high cost of living, but the cost of living high. I know this to be true as a single person. Housing you can rent a room, car you can do without, and food you can adapt, leisure you can forgo… this describes me well during my first 6-7 years in Singapore. And yes, I kept my costs down to the same level as the U.S., but with a huge drop in material lifestyle. However, if you have a family, and especially school aged children… it’s a totally different ball game, unless can localize before that happens.

I agree with your nickel/dime comment, but there wasn’t much else I could think of. The big picture advantages you mention seem more geared toward those with above average wealth/income, that would certainly be a different ball game. If I were in Singapore’s 23-24% tax bracket… I might have just done that.

Gotcha. I don't think any of these global cities are easy to live in unless you either come from money or are in very high paying industries. It's good these opportunities exist but that also drives up the cost of stuff for others (nothing is cheap). At the same time, everyone can be financially independent (eventually) if they set aside a chunk (15%-20%?) of their pay starting as soon as possible. It's just that most people don't have that level of discipline. So it kind of works both ways; things aren't cheap but there's always someone else getting by and being content with less.

Anyways, how are you guys doing with the fires (any chance you will have to evacuate/move)? Everything is still West of the 405 (and you guys are East of it?)?

I've always liked the drive on Sunset from the ocean through Pacific Palisades to UCLA and then Beverly Hills/Rodeo area (past that the vibe kind of changes). Assuming some of the photos are accurate, it seems like a lot of stuff (very nice houses) is just gone.

Hopefully they get things contained soon and people are safe.