Where will you retire?

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Lisafuller
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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 27 Sep 2021 2:49 am

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:10 pm
MOCHS wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 8:00 am
My boss keeps recommending Cambodia to me.
I heard Cambodia has a 3 year “business” visa that doesn’t require you to conduct any business. Apparently that is the visa of choice among retirees there. Cambodia is definitely economical and has a lot of natural beauty. Infrastructure has been improving with Chinese money, but it’s still kinda rough - you need to be adventurous. Phnom Penh is a bit chaotic and polluted, but has it’s charm. Sihanoukville is the more popular place for expats and tourists, with some half-way decent beaches.
Would that not mean that you could only retire for 3 years there? Or is the visa infinitely renewable?

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 27 Sep 2021 2:51 am

ProvenPracticalFlexible wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:11 am
MOCHS wrote:
Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:52 am

Yes, immigration is a multi-faceted issue but when PRs jumping ship happens so often, the citizens can’t help but feel jaded. Do these PRs really integrate? Do they really know the colloquial slang? Do they do what the locals do? Or do they stick to their condo enclave/expat bubble and never venture out into the heartlands.

People who get PRs in other Western countries almost always obtain citizenship there instead of just deciding to return back to their home countries. Why is this not the case in SG? Seems into be a “uniquely SG” thing.
That kind of integration criteria would be quit difficult to define. Singlish language test anyone? Mandatory tour in AMK and Bedok HDB blocks, with multiple choice exam at the end. or living 1 year in HDB, taking away apartments from locals. Need to eat like locals, would any local cuisine count or does it have to be Singaporean Chinese?

Not to mention that there are also Singaporeans who don't speak singlish, and live in condo/landed bubbles and don't go to the HDB heartlands, or whose parents would disown their children if they married outside of their race.

NS probably the only place some locals are forced to integrate with the rest of the citizens.

Big difference is that in most of the Western countries (Germany being the notable exception) they allow dual citizenship, and thus it's much easier decision to make as you don't need to give up anything, but will gain another citizenship and passport.
Exactly, but unlike the much larger countries Singapore cannot afford to allow dual citizenship. It’s tiny size and general insecurity requires citizens to commit to Singapore, which is a double edged sword since some decide to give up their SG citizenship status in favor of another country.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 27 Sep 2021 2:54 am

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 9:52 am
MOCHS wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 8:00 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:33 am
How sweet, why SG for you? Is the US home for you too?
I’m born and bred here in SG, been living here all my life as a SG citizen. Family is here. I’m not an American, only visited the US as a tourist. Even though husband grew up in a red state, his parents & family are very liberal (housing is probably cheaper in the South?) He was concerned about my safety when orange man was in office so he decided to come to SG to be with me. I did see “how in your face” some of the religious & political billboards/ads are on the roads and husband was uncomfortable in letting me see that. I found the billboards to be highly amusing though.

He has been a small town guy all his life, never lived in any of the major big cities in the US so he took a while to adjust to the SG metropolis. He only misses nature & mountains and if there weren’t any travel restrictions, I would bring him around SEA to see the natural sights. My boss keeps recommending Cambodia to me.

I’m still waiting and see what are the results of SG’s “retirement HDB village” since it’s a fairly new concept.
I came to Singapore from the US back before everything was viewed through the hyper-polarized lens of red/blue, right/left, etc… although it existed back then, it didn’t define people like it seems to today. What many Americans have forgotten is that we have way more in common than different.

This is why I try my best not to take sides, I don’t believe people are as liberal or conservative as they think they are. I would also say that many have been brainwashed by the media. After watching enough CNN or Fox, you can easily start to believe the different narratives they are pushing. I have stopped watching. I have a mind of my own. I just can’t agree with everything that one side or the other has on their agenda. In some matters like immigration and the environment, I might seem very liberal. But on social matters and fiscal responsibility, staunchly conservative. Neither political party has lived up to my expectation in any of these matters. Singapore is just about perfect in my ideal of fiscal conservatism.

BTW, I wonder if your husband even noticed or realizes that Singapore is VERY conservative on the political dial! It’s not talked about much, and I find it astonishing that those who claim to have strong political leanings often don’t even notice!
Freedom of press in the US means that oftentimes independent news outlets tend to take on the views of either side, making all their publications colored by these views. Like you’ve mentioned CNN tends to be much more liberal while fox is incredibly conservative. Each viewer simply chooses to receive their news from the outlet whose political alignment is the same as their own.

In most modern democracies, the liberal party tends to be the incumbent party. One would assume that to be the case for SG as well, however if you examine the PAP’s views, you’ll quickly find that they are actually equivalent to the “conservative” party in other states.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 27 Sep 2021 2:56 am

malcontent wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 4:06 pm
midlet2013 wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 3:29 pm
How much money ,net worth wise , is needed to retire. I see people quoting bad subsidies and discussion various options, but I guess it mostly depends on the money u have.
25x the annual expenses you want to cover is the gold standard. This requires you to invest & rebalance appropriately, and follow safe withdrawal rules using the 4% guideline.
Not to sound ignorant, but what exactly is the 4% rule?

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 27 Sep 2021 2:57 am

MOCHS wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:29 am
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 9:52 am
BTW, I wonder if your husband even noticed or
realizes that Singapore is VERY conservative on the political dial! It’s not talked about much, and I find it astonishing that those who claim to have strong political leanings often don’t even notice!
Oh, he has noticed but chooses not to comment about it publicly. He studied media and so free speech is also quite important to him but again, keeps it to himself. I don’t want him to be arrested lol.

Hubby feels things in the US shifted after 9-11 and the whole “climate” slowly changed to what we see today.
Same with my father. Coming to Singapore has meant moderating his views, at least publicly. Freedom of speech is compromised, but it’s a small price to pay for safety and peace.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Mon, 27 Sep 2021 2:59 am

ProvenPracticalFlexible wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 10:11 am
MOCHS wrote:
Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:52 am

Yes, immigration is a multi-faceted issue but when PRs jumping ship happens so often, the citizens can’t help but feel jaded. Do these PRs really integrate? Do they really know the colloquial slang? Do they do what the locals do? Or do they stick to their condo enclave/expat bubble and never venture out into the heartlands.

People who get PRs in other Western countries almost always obtain citizenship there instead of just deciding to return back to their home countries. Why is this not the case in SG? Seems into be a “uniquely SG” thing.
That kind of integration criteria would be quit difficult to define. Singlish language test anyone? Mandatory tour in AMK and Bedok HDB blocks, with multiple choice exam at the end. or living 1 year in HDB, taking away apartments from locals. Need to eat like locals, would any local cuisine count or does it have to be Singaporean Chinese?

Not to mention that there are also Singaporeans who don't speak singlish, and live in condo/landed bubbles and don't go to the HDB heartlands, or whose parents would disown their children if they married outside of their race.

NS probably the only place some locals are forced to integrate with the rest of the citizens.

Big difference is that in most of the Western countries (Germany being the notable exception) they allow dual citizenship, and thus it's much easier decision to make as you don't need to give up anything, but will gain another citizenship and passport.
Hahaha, impractical and unfeasible. You make a good point, it’s ironic that integration is such a talked about criteria when in many ways it’s the hardest to define or demonstrate.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by malcontent » Mon, 27 Sep 2021 9:15 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 27 Sep 2021 2:56 am
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 4:06 pm
midlet2013 wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 3:29 pm
How much money ,net worth wise , is needed to retire. I see people quoting bad subsidies and discussion various options, but I guess it mostly depends on the money u have.
25x the annual expenses you want to cover is the gold standard. This requires you to invest & rebalance appropriately, and follow safe withdrawal rules using the 4% guideline.
Not to sound ignorant, but what exactly is the 4% rule?
It’s the % of your portfolio value you can safely withdraw from year one (then add inflation subsequently) with 95% confidence you won’t run out within 30 years, based on the worst case scenarios ever seen historically (the odds are, you’ll end up with an even larger portfolio at the end of 30 years than you started with).

When I say withdraw, it means taking any dividends & interest payments PLUS reducing principle (i.e. selling securities, if needed) to reach the targeted withdrawal each year.
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by malcontent » Mon, 27 Sep 2021 9:19 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 27 Sep 2021 2:49 am
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:10 pm
MOCHS wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 8:00 am
My boss keeps recommending Cambodia to me.
I heard Cambodia has a 3 year “business” visa that doesn’t require you to conduct any business. Apparently that is the visa of choice among retirees there. Cambodia is definitely economical and has a lot of natural beauty. Infrastructure has been improving with Chinese money, but it’s still kinda rough - you need to be adventurous. Phnom Penh is a bit chaotic and polluted, but has it’s charm. Sihanoukville is the more popular place for expats and tourists, with some half-way decent beaches.
Would that not mean that you could only retire for 3 years there? Or is the visa infinitely renewable?
I understand you can apply for the visa again after 3 years. It’s good “business” for Cambodia!
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

Lisafuller
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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Tue, 28 Sep 2021 2:42 am

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 27 Sep 2021 9:19 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 27 Sep 2021 2:49 am
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:10 pm


I heard Cambodia has a 3 year “business” visa that doesn’t require you to conduct any business. Apparently that is the visa of choice among retirees there. Cambodia is definitely economical and has a lot of natural beauty. Infrastructure has been improving with Chinese money, but it’s still kinda rough - you need to be adventurous. Phnom Penh is a bit chaotic and polluted, but has it’s charm. Sihanoukville is the more popular place for expats and tourists, with some half-way decent beaches.
Would that not mean that you could only retire for 3 years there? Or is the visa infinitely renewable?
I understand you can apply for the visa again after 3 years. It’s good “business” for Cambodia!
That’s what I thought, a non-renewable 3 years would hardly be an attractive prospect for retirees!

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by Lisafuller » Tue, 28 Sep 2021 2:43 am

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 27 Sep 2021 9:15 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Mon, 27 Sep 2021 2:56 am
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 26 Sep 2021 4:06 pm


25x the annual expenses you want to cover is the gold standard. This requires you to invest & rebalance appropriately, and follow safe withdrawal rules using the 4% guideline.
Not to sound ignorant, but what exactly is the 4% rule?
It’s the % of your portfolio value you can safely withdraw from year one (then add inflation subsequently) with 95% confidence you won’t run out within 30 years, based on the worst case scenarios ever seen historically (the odds are, you’ll end up with an even larger portfolio at the end of 30 years than you started with).

When I say withdraw, it means taking any dividends & interest payments PLUS reducing principle (i.e. selling securities, if needed) to reach the targeted withdrawal each year.
I see, I’m surprised I’ve never heard about this before. Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by malcontent » Tue, 28 Sep 2021 6:14 pm

Thanks to YouTube, there are many expat vloggers who put out monthly budget videos in various countries. Southeast Asia is a popular place to engage in geo-arbitrage, which is to say, taking advantage of lower cost geographic areas of the world as a way to conserve and grow their nest egg. Probably the most popular countries are Thailand, the Philippines, Vietnam & Cambodia, from higher to lower cost of living. Generally expenses range from S$1.5k to S$1k per month and that’s enough for a decent, comfortable (but simple) life. Malaysia is also in that range, but not as many vloggers seem to cover it.
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by smoulder » Tue, 28 Sep 2021 6:42 pm

malcontent wrote:
Tue, 28 Sep 2021 6:14 pm
Thanks to YouTube, there are many expat vloggers who put out monthly budget videos in various countries. Southeast Asia is a popular place to engage in geo-arbitrage, which is to say, taking advantage of lower cost geographic areas of the world as a way to conserve and grow their nest egg. Probably the most popular countries are Thailand, the Philippines, Vietnam & Cambodia, from higher to lower cost of living. Generally expenses range from S$1.5k to S$1k per month and that’s enough for a decent, comfortable (but simple) life. Malaysia is also in that range, but not as many vloggers seem to cover it.
I've always wondered why Malaysia doesn't seem to get as much coverage from a retirement point of view despite Penang coming up in quite a few lists of top destinations for expats.

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by malcontent » Tue, 28 Sep 2021 7:22 pm

smoulder wrote:
Tue, 28 Sep 2021 6:42 pm
malcontent wrote:
Tue, 28 Sep 2021 6:14 pm
Thanks to YouTube, there are many expat vloggers who put out monthly budget videos in various countries. Southeast Asia is a popular place to engage in geo-arbitrage, which is to say, taking advantage of lower cost geographic areas of the world as a way to conserve and grow their nest egg. Probably the most popular countries are Thailand, the Philippines, Vietnam & Cambodia, from higher to lower cost of living. Generally expenses range from S$1.5k to S$1k per month and that’s enough for a decent, comfortable (but simple) life. Malaysia is also in that range, but not as many vloggers seem to cover it.
I've always wondered why Malaysia doesn't seem to get as much coverage from a retirement point of view despite Penang coming up in quite a few lists of top destinations for expats.
I agree. Malaysia actually has a lot going for it, but I think a lot of people from the West get the impression that it’s some kind of strict Islamic state.

While it isn’t quite as lively or scenic compared to it’s neighbors, English is spoken, it has great infrastructure, great food, there is decent shopping and nightlife in KL and several decent beaches further afield. It’s far more multi-cultural, multi-religious and safe than what it gets credit for. It’s also one of the few countries in Asia that you can drive around without any special skills, just a little extra defensiveness is all you need and you’ve got expressways to get you to most places with ease.
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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Re: Where will you retire?

Post by MOCHS » Tue, 28 Sep 2021 10:07 pm

It’s probably difficult or next to impossible for an expat to land a job (let alone freelance) in M’sia.

I knew an European Caucasian male who married a M’sian Muslim female, he relocated with her to M’sia and applied for jobs for a while. He got zero replies despite holding a PhD.

He then applied for jobs in SG instead and landed a job so he and his wife moved to SG. He told me he has two different “personas” when he’s in M’sia and when he’s outside M’sia. He said he didn’t really follow the fasting schedule during Ramadan while he’s in SG since you can’t tell he’s Muslim at first glance anyway. When he’s in M’sia, then he has to follow the religious stuff.

The funniest thing is his wife’s company transferred her to the UK before COVID so he didn’t see his wife for the whole of last year due to travel restrictions. Now that his laboratory based experiments has come to an end, he decided to move to UK and write his manuscripts from there in a work from home type of scenario. He’s still employed by the SG company, just that he’s overseas.

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Re: Where will you retire

Post by malcontent » Tue, 28 Sep 2021 11:52 pm

As a Caucasian (Mat Salleh) in Malaysia, I wouldn’t think he would feel any difference there or in Singapore. Maybe when he is with his wife (especially if she is wearing a tudung) then yes. I’ve actually been out drinking with a Malay Muslim friend in Malaysia. As long as we were in a cosmopolitan part of town like Bukit Bintang and with a group of foreigners… he was able to tip a few back with us, he just had to keep a low profile.
It’s not what happens to you, but how you react to it that matters ~ Epictetus

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