Why do some people prefer sinovac?

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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by tiktok » Thu, 08 Jul 2021 1:28 pm

Thanks for that, it's really good to hear from people with first hand experience. (I've never lived in the US). Obamacare was a shitty bandaid solution, bunch of compromises and trade offs to try and bring the most benefits to the people who most need it, while working within ridiculous political constraints. It's not surprising at all that your brother got the short straw.

The real problem is the insane fundamentalist opposition to something that would fix your brother's problem and millions of other Americans - single payer health care.
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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by malcontent » Thu, 08 Jul 2021 8:13 pm

Single payer could be done easily in the US, because there is already a single payer system for those aged 65 and up called Medicare. You could simply reduce the eligibility age by 5 years, each year, until everyone is eventually covered. Based on my calculations, adding an extra 0.5 percent to Medicare taxes each year (currently 1.65% paid by both employer and employee) should cover it. It would take 13 years to implement, and Medicare taxes would be 8.15% at the end. While I don’t think this is the best solution, it is better than Obamacare!

But to me, there needs to be some personal accountability for healthcare costs. Why should I be taxed more because my neighbor is smoking, not exercising and eating junk food all day? This is where health savings accounts come into play, and the US actually has a fantastic HSA system (way better than Medisave IMO), the problem is you must have a high deductible health care plan in order to participate in one.

There is also the matter of consumer choice and competition. Healthcare need more transparency about costs - they have started passing laws to start making things more transparent for comparing among medical providers as well as providing costs upfront to avoid huge surprise bills.

Plenty of opportunities for improvement. Singapore has a good mix of public and private, subsidized and health savings, the biggest problem here is insurance companies care more about protecting themselves than protecting the insured. I have yet to see a single insurance plan here than has a MOOP (maximum out of pocket cost, after which you pay nothing on an unlimited basis), which is the norm in the US.

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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by tiktok » Thu, 08 Jul 2021 9:52 pm

IMHO, healthcare and free market don't mix well. Drug companies want you to keep taking their drugs, hospitals want you to keep coming back. In a single payer system, the payer has the incentive to keep long term costs down, which means keeping people healthy. Being the government, they can use carrots and sticks to discourage your neighbour smoking and eating crap, and it's in their interest to do it.
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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by malcontent » Thu, 08 Jul 2021 11:20 pm

The US government (like many governments) is pretty notorious for not performing up to expectations. So even thought it’s not in the interest of the US government to spend $100,000 per toilet seat, they still do stuff like this. This is why less government often results in a better outcome than more government. They just can’t get many things right.

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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by sp786 » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 1:19 pm

Sinovac uses the same method as all traditional vaccines use so probably trust is more?

Secondly few believe that since covid originated there their vaccines would be most researched and effective as well?

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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by Lisafuller » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:31 pm

malcontent wrote:
Thu, 08 Jul 2021 12:37 pm
Back to the original topic - why do some prefer sinovac?

I know we all want to believe patriotism is driving it, and that might be true for a very small minority, but in most cases it is either -

1. Unfounded fear about the safety of mRNA technology, as it was well reported in the news that China is running a misinformation campaign to suggest that.

2. Unfounded belief that China only recognizes sinovac for travel to China, so those who want to or plan to fly there will opt for this vaccine. China has said they will make it easier to enter for those with sinovac, but I don’t believe they have defined what “easier” actually means.
The second point seems to be a huge issue, I’ve seen and heard so many people who have the same misconception that China only allows entry to those vaccinated with Sinovac, when this is simply not the case.

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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by Lisafuller » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:32 pm

sp786 wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 1:19 pm
Sinovac uses the same method as all traditional vaccines use so probably trust is more?

Secondly few believe that since covid originated there their vaccines would be most researched and effective as well?
Sinovac is different from the rest of the covid vaccines, which are all mRNA vaccines. So no, it’s not the same.

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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by sp786 » Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:37 pm

Lisafuller wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:32 pm
sp786 wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 1:19 pm
Sinovac uses the same method as all traditional vaccines use so probably trust is more?

Secondly few believe that since covid originated there their vaccines would be most researched and effective as well?
Sinovac is different from the rest of the covid vaccines, which are all mRNA vaccines. So no, it’s not the same.
Sorry if i was not clear that is what i meant, i.e, "traditional vaccines" for other diseases with inactivated whole virion unline mRna.

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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by malcontent » Mon, 12 Jul 2021 12:09 am

I would take Sinovac if I was living in a country where the pandemic was bad and that was my only option - although it may not be as effective, at least I would stand a better chance of not ending up with serious case. In Singapore though, you’ve got the best and most effective vaccines available, so to me, it’s a no brainer. I’m getting my 2nd dose of Pfizer next week.

Not that it matters one iota, but the factory that produces the Pfizer vaccine is in my home state, just miles away from my hometown and my sister-in-law works there.

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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by BBCDoc » Mon, 12 Jul 2021 8:36 am

[/quote]

Sinovac is different from the rest of the covid vaccines, which are all mRNA vaccines. So no, it’s not the same.[/quote]

Not true, AZ, J&J and Sputnik all use Adenovirus vector based vaccines, hence the hoohah with blood clots.

China was just organized to have a system to grow up enough virus to inactivate to make vaccines…meaning they had a good SARS-COV-2 mass production facility already established…


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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by malcontent » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:39 pm

My wife’s aunt in Indonesia was just moved to the ICU today. She contracted COVID last week. She was fully vaccinated with Sinovac. I know this is just one case, but it really makes me wonder whether Sinovac does any good at all? Even the unvaccinated have better than 50-50 odds of not having a serious case, what good is Sinovac? Seems more like a placebo.

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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by sp786 » Mon, 19 Jul 2021 11:00 pm

Based on my observation there are 3 reasons:

1) Sinovac propaganda on social media is mostly done by fake ID from the 50 cents gang on FB who're manipulating their location as Serawak or Penang or sometimes Singapore. This propaganda gets into the minds of locals who have "homeland is supreme" syndrome and misguides them.
2) Rumours spread by the same 50cents gang that mRNA is dangerous and alters your DNA.
3) Some people genuinely believe that an inactivated whole virion vaccine is time tested , China's reported covid cases are low and hence want it.
.
The entire vaccine diplomacy has geopolitical implications as well. This is why you would have noticed countries both neutral and close to China bought Sinovac stating price reasons but now ending up giving booster shots using Pfizer or Moderna or Astra Zenecca.

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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by Lisafuller » Sat, 31 Jul 2021 1:11 am

sp786 wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:37 pm
Lisafuller wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 11:32 pm
sp786 wrote:
Sun, 11 Jul 2021 1:19 pm
Sinovac uses the same method as all traditional vaccines use so probably trust is more?

Secondly few believe that since covid originated there their vaccines would be most researched and effective as well?
Sinovac is different from the rest of the covid vaccines, which are all mRNA vaccines. So no, it’s not the same.
Sorry if i was not clear that is what i meant, i.e, "traditional vaccines" for other diseases with inactivated whole virion unline mRna.
I see.

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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by Lisafuller » Sat, 31 Jul 2021 1:12 am

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 12 Jul 2021 12:09 am
I would take Sinovac if I was living in a country where the pandemic was bad and that was my only option - although it may not be as effective, at least I would stand a better chance of not ending up with serious case. In Singapore though, you’ve got the best and most effective vaccines available, so to me, it’s a no brainer. I’m getting my 2nd dose of Pfizer next week.

Not that it matters one iota, but the factory that produces the Pfizer vaccine is in my home state, just miles away from my hometown and my sister-in-law works there.
My thoughts exactly. Sinovac is not a bad choice if its the only choice, but here it is not, so its a no-brainer for me as well. I received my second dose of Pfizer a little over a week ago, so it will become effective in about a weeks time.

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Re: Why do some people prefer sinovac?

Post by Lisafuller » Sat, 31 Jul 2021 1:14 am

malcontent wrote:
Mon, 19 Jul 2021 10:39 pm
My wife’s aunt in Indonesia was just moved to the ICU today. She contracted COVID last week. She was fully vaccinated with Sinovac. I know this is just one case, but it really makes me wonder whether Sinovac does any good at all? Even the unvaccinated have better than 50-50 odds of not having a serious case, what good is Sinovac? Seems more like a placebo.
Thats scary. On one hand, it would be problematic to make such a generalization from just one case, but on the other hand, I would be lying if I said I had much faith in its efficacy.

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