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Planning my move to Singapore

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malcontent
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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by malcontent » Wed, 27 Jul 2022 8:33 pm

Lisafuller wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 4:34 am
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 24 Jul 2022 2:18 pm
smoulder wrote:
Sun, 24 Jul 2022 11:00 am
On a side note Mal, how did you drive to Malaysia? Did you rent a car?
My wife owns a car, so we took that. Before she owned a car I would rent a car, but not from here - we would cross the border and then I would rent in Johor. Normal procedure: they wait for me at City Square and I go get the rental car (around 10-15 mins walk) and then I pick them up at the pick/up drop-off area at City Square. This worked out well, but driving across the SG-MY border is much less hassle, with a drive up window you don’t need to get out of your vehicle.
How much does that cost? I guess since you are renting only when you get to JB it would be much cheaper than crossing the border in a locally rented car.
The last time I did that was in the mid-2000’s and prices were still dirt cheap at the time. I got a Proton Wira (manual transmission) at Avis for just RM76 per day! Nowadays you should expect at least double that. My bro in law was in JB this past weekend and rented a car, I think it was at Hawk rental and he got it for around RM120/day for one of those little Perodua cars.

Roughly speaking, the cost of renting a local branded vehicle in Malaysia is similar to the price of renting a car in the US. Imported brands are roughly double (both to rent or buy), because of the import tariffs.
Every great and deep difficulty bears in itself its own solution. It forces us to change our thinking in order to find it - Niels Bohr

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:12 am

smoulder wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 10:43 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 4:31 am
tiktok wrote:
Sun, 24 Jul 2022 11:03 am
I bought a second car 4 years ago and it works out to 5k a year (running costs excluded). But given the rise in COE prices, the same thing would be 8-9k now.
New or used?
416 per month. I'm guessing used. Either that or he paid a significant amount of cash upfront with a much smaller loan.
Seems like it. Besides, new cars are not worth it here.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:13 am

Roadtosingapore wrote:
Wed, 27 Jul 2022 7:39 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 4:24 am
NYY1 wrote:
Sun, 24 Jul 2022 7:45 am

I think they are looking for the UK curriculum. But if willing to deal with something else I think most would agree (I guess).
Oh, I missed that. If they are looking for UK curriculum, I’d go with Tanglin trust. But if they want to try something else then I definitely recommend SAS over any other school.
Thanks. We checked Tanglin Trust and Dover Court, both have a long waiting list. :(
In that case, where are you looking at? There aren’t very many options.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:15 am

malcontent wrote:
Wed, 27 Jul 2022 8:33 pm
Lisafuller wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 4:34 am
malcontent wrote:
Sun, 24 Jul 2022 2:18 pm

My wife owns a car, so we took that. Before she owned a car I would rent a car, but not from here - we would cross the border and then I would rent in Johor. Normal procedure: they wait for me at City Square and I go get the rental car (around 10-15 mins walk) and then I pick them up at the pick/up drop-off area at City Square. This worked out well, but driving across the SG-MY border is much less hassle, with a drive up window you don’t need to get out of your vehicle.
How much does that cost? I guess since you are renting only when you get to JB it would be much cheaper than crossing the border in a locally rented car.
The last time I did that was in the mid-2000’s and prices were still dirt cheap at the time. I got a Proton Wira (manual transmission) at Avis for just RM76 per day! Nowadays you should expect at least double that. My bro in law was in JB this past weekend and rented a car, I think it was at Hawk rental and he got it for around RM120/day for one of those little Perodua cars.

Roughly speaking, the cost of renting a local branded vehicle in Malaysia is similar to the price of renting a car in the US. Imported brands are roughly double (both to rent or buy), because of the import tariffs.
Well, considering you’re just renting it hardly matters whether the car is imported or not. Seems pretty affordable.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:17 am

nelyanne wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 2:50 pm
@MOCHS - regarding HDB. It should also be stated, most of the HDBs are NOT available for rent to foreigners. Non-citizen quota is 8% for the neighborhood, 11% for the block. Also, renting HDB is not as cheap as it used to be. The price gap between renting an HDB and a condo has narrowed.
Agree. If you’re resourceful and patient, chances are you’ll be able to find a condo unit not far off from the price of an HDB.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:20 am

smoulder wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 3:59 pm
nelyanne wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 2:50 pm
@MOCHS - regarding HDB. It should also be stated, most of the HDBs are NOT available for rent to foreigners. Non-citizen quota is 8% for the neighborhood, 11% for the block. Also, renting HDB is not as cheap as it used to be. The price gap between renting an HDB and a condo has narrowed.
I have rented HDBs as a foreigner (on an EP), so this is not true. Most of that was with my fiance (now wife) who was a PR and later became a citizen, but I don't think that gave me special privileges. I know of plenty of foreign families who rent HDBs. Yes, there could be restrictions - but those restrictions do not make it impossible.

I think like MOCHS mentioned and I alluded to it as well, sometimes paying more to live in a condo doesn't make much sense if you don't use the facilities - typically the swimming pool and the gym. I for one rarely use the pool and never use the gym - I have an Anytime Fitness membership so I end up double spending. And of course, you get more space for your money and proximity to shops and public transport in HDBs which you may not get in a condo.
I don’t think it’s about whether or not it is possible for a foreigner to rent an HDP, rather the difficulty (which is undeniable) is something that is quite off-putting for most. And with regards to the condo amenities, I must say that nothing beats the convenience of having all of your facilities centralized and within such close proximity. Convenience is so important, especially when you have children. And think about it, you might have the discipline to make the trip to an external gym but when you’re juggling work, kids, and a lack of motivation that distance can a lot of times be too much.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:22 am

MOCHS wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 2:12 pm
Local here. Depending on your budget & lifestyle, you can live lavishly or live frugally. Also, do you see Singapore as a temporary place for a couple of years before jetting home or a place where you wanna get PR? How open minded are you to live like a local or do you just want to keep to yourself in your bubble?

If you have unlimited budget, feel free to live in a condo/landed property, eat out or order food delivery daily, drive/ride hail whenever you want.

If you wanna be more mindful in your spending, live in HDB, cook at home, take public transport.

Or you can mix both sides of the budget spectrum. Ride hail and eat out occasionally.

First thing to take note is that food & essentials are imported into SG. We don’t have the land to produce our own stuff. Learn to get over the fact that some things won’t be as cheap as back home. Either you stock up & bring some over or find cheaper alternatives or just pay the price difference.

Groceries, essentials, other stuff to purchase...: For unlimited budgets, there’s Jason’s, Cold Storage and other speciality shops. Slightly more wallet friendly options Giant, Sheng Siong, and Fairprice. Though some people say Fairprice ain’t wallet friendly but it’s everywhere and convenient. Most wallet friendly is wet markets found in HDB estates, they usually have fresher produce than supermarkets. Floors are usually wet, hence the name.

If you are used to keeping certain food stuffs like butter outside the fridge, the climate here will either cause it to melt or go mouldy quickly. Read the label and refrigerate if it says so. Leaving unwashed dishes in the sink will attract pests, so clean up ASAP.

Your other essentials like shampoo, toothpaste, etc. can also be found in the above supermarkets, pharmacies like Watsons or Guardian, online, or smaller beauty product shops in HDB estates. The latter is very worth it in terms of pricing.

Electronics & furniture… just wait for a sale or get second hand items from other expats who are moving out.

A lot of stuff can be ordered online anyway if you’re lazy to go out to shop.

Transport: Cars are hella expensive but if you have the budget, go ahead. Public transport is efficient & quick, waiting time isn’t that long. My foreigner husband is happy he doesn’t have to drive ‘cos he hates city parking so he’s content without a car. There are apps where you can rent cars for a few hours for occasions like moving some items… There are also traditional car rental places to rent a car for a period of time.

I grew up without a car and so did plenty of other people. The whole “if you have kids, you must have a car” mindset is untrue.

Housing: Don’t knock on HDBs until you try it. Majority of the population live in HDBs and it ain’t bad. The pricing of some HDBs are almost on par with condos. Don’t listen to those who have never lived in one before and only heard stories from friends/colleagues. Public housing aren’t slums or ghettos like other countries. You want to exercise? There are exercise equipment downstairs or you can go to the HDB estate’s sports complex or swimming complex.

Condos have plenty of facilities but you gotta ask yourself if you’re gonna use it weekly. If you’re not, it’s just a waste of maintenance fees. Condos are also smaller than HDBs unless you find those built before the 90s which tend to be bigger. If you want a new & bigger condo, pay more for rent. You essentially pay more for convenience… whether you use the facilities, that’s up to you.

Landed property like terraces & bungalows are very pricey too ‘cos we do have a lack of land and if you wanna stay on such houses, prepare to pay a premium, even for rental. Terrace houses are usually adjacent to other houses so if you don’t like that, either you don’t go for it or you live with it. Bungalows are stand-alone with pretty big gardens. Whether you stay in HDB, condos, terrace, your neighbours are gonna be fairly close anyway. Landed property are usually located far away from roads so having a car would be more convenient.

Healthcare: Make sure your company insurance covers you & your dependents ‘cos foreigners are charged the full rate if you go to public hospitals. Ifnyou have unlimited budget, feel free to go to private hospitals. Quality between public & private are the same, difference is waiting time.

Activities: The weather is hot & humid so locals prefer activities that are indoors in air-conditioned comfort. That means spending time in shopping malls like the movies, eating out, shopping. We do have museums & theatres but the arts scene may not be as vibrant as other cities.

Outdoor wise, you can go to the beach (Sentosa or East Coast Park) or hike along the various park connectors. We don’t have much in terms of natural scenery, I’m afraid. Pre-COVID, it’s very common among locals & foreigners to jet off to other SEA countries over Friday-weekend and come back Sunday night.

Schooling: I don’t have any children but everyone else has gave their input here.
This whole post is incredibly comprehensive and helpful, but I must disagree with your point about cars and children. If you don’t have children, I hardly think it’s fair for you to conclude that having a car is unnecessary. While I do agree that having a car is never a must, the added convenience makes an enormous difference and I feel like you’ve discounted that here.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:24 am

nelyanne wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 4:29 pm
smoulder wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 3:59 pm
nelyanne wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 2:50 pm
@MOCHS - regarding HDB. It should also be stated, most of the HDBs are NOT available for rent to foreigners. Non-citizen quota is 8% for the neighborhood, 11% for the block. Also, renting HDB is not as cheap as it used to be. The price gap between renting an HDB and a condo has narrowed.
I have rented HDBs as a foreigner (on an EP), so this is not true. Most of that was with my fiance (now wife) who was a PR and later became a citizen, but I don't think that gave me special privileges. I know of plenty of foreign families who rent HDBs. Yes, there could be restrictions - but those restrictions do not make it impossible.

I think like MOCHS mentioned and I alluded to it as well, sometimes paying more to live in a condo doesn't make much sense if you don't use the facilities - typically the swimming pool and the gym. I for one rarely use the pool and never use the gym - I have an Anytime Fitness membership so I end up double spending. And of course, you get more space for your money and proximity to shops and public transport in HDBs which you may not get in a condo.
Was your wife from Malaysia? Non-citizen quota doesn't apply to Malaysian PRs.
Some families are renting HDB flats where one room is 'officially' locked and occupied by the owner. That's a way to overcome the non-citizen quota. BUT you need to officially rent a whole flat in order to get a maid. So it's better to be aware of this.

Regarding proximity to public transport... Yes, there are some condos far away from any bus stop, forcing you to take taxi everywhere. But there are also condos linked directly to MRT station.
Right, the newer condos tend to be really close by bus stops or MRT stations. Some even have shuttle buses that will take you there. Though it must be said that these condos do come at a premium and tend to be a little smaller as they are newer developments.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:27 am

smoulder wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 4:38 pm
nelyanne wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 4:29 pm
smoulder wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 3:59 pm

I have rented HDBs as a foreigner (on an EP), so this is not true. Most of that was with my fiance (now wife) who was a PR and later became a citizen, but I don't think that gave me special privileges. I know of plenty of foreign families who rent HDBs. Yes, there could be restrictions - but those restrictions do not make it impossible.

I think like MOCHS mentioned and I alluded to it as well, sometimes paying more to live in a condo doesn't make much sense if you don't use the facilities - typically the swimming pool and the gym. I for one rarely use the pool and never use the gym - I have an Anytime Fitness membership so I end up double spending. And of course, you get more space for your money and proximity to shops and public transport in HDBs which you may not get in a condo.
Was your wife from Malaysia? Non-citizen quota doesn't apply to Malaysian PRs.
Some families are renting HDB flats where one room is 'officially' locked and occupied by the owner. That's a way to overcome the non-citizen quota. BUT you need to officially rent a whole flat in order to get a maid. So it's better to be aware of this.

Regarding proximity to public transport... Yes, there are some condos far away from any bus stop, forcing you to take taxi everywhere. But there are also condos linked directly to MRT station.
Yes Malaysian. However, I think the foreigner restrictions applied to us because of me, the EP holder. We always rented the whole place - I don't recall the deal with HDBs with locked rooms, but we were forewarned by a friend who's an agent that it's illegal and hence we wouldn't even look at those listings.

As I mentioned, I know of a few families who've rented out the whole HDB while being on EPs. Non Malaysians. It is definitely doable. What's not possible is for a foreigner to buy an HDB. Which is why we ended up spending more and bought a condo.
Condo, been any reason why are you still need a gym membership? Is the condo gym equipment just not advanced enough? Or is there another reason.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:29 am

smoulder wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 5:36 pm
Speaking about weather. I grew up in Mumbai which is pretty rainy and pretty warm and sticky. I still find Singapore weather a pain in the ass.

While the rain is OK and sometimes a pleasant relief, the warm stickiness is not something that you get used to - you get used to ways of mitigating :D
Right, the humidity is something that you never quite get used to.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:31 am

tiktok wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 10:19 pm
It was a 10 year old Avante with a 5 year COE, I paid 25k cash for it. Very foolish in hindsight, I should have got a 10 year COE (which can always be refunded). Now a perfectly good car will be scrapped next year, what a stupid rule.
smoulder wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 10:43 am
Lisafuller wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 4:31 am


New or used?
416 per month. I'm guessing used. Either that or he paid a significant amount of cash upfront with a much smaller loan.
Oh my god, our situation is basically the same! Same make, same COE situation, similar price.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:33 am

therat wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 4:42 pm
nelyanne wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 4:29 pm
smoulder wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 3:59 pm

I have rented HDBs as a foreigner (on an EP), so this is not true. Most of that was with my fiance (now wife) who was a PR and later became a citizen, but I don't think that gave me special privileges. I know of plenty of foreign families who rent HDBs. Yes, there could be restrictions - but those restrictions do not make it impossible.

I think like MOCHS mentioned and I alluded to it as well, sometimes paying more to live in a condo doesn't make much sense if you don't use the facilities - typically the swimming pool and the gym. I for one rarely use the pool and never use the gym - I have an Anytime Fitness membership so I end up double spending. And of course, you get more space for your money and proximity to shops and public transport in HDBs which you may not get in a condo.
Was your wife from Malaysia? Non-citizen quota doesn't apply to Malaysian PRs.
Some families are renting HDB flats where one room is 'officially' locked and occupied by the owner. That's a way to overcome the non-citizen quota. BUT you need to officially rent a whole flat in order to get a maid. So it's better to be aware of this.

Regarding proximity to public transport... Yes, there are some condos far away from any bus stop, forcing you to take taxi everywhere. But there are also condos linked directly to MRT station.
Lock a room - most of the time is due to owner 5 yrs MOP no meet. In order to rent out whole unit, owner need to stay at the unit for 5 yrs. And to rent out the whole unit, owner need to get HDB approve. If the owner lock a room (not staying in) and rent out the whole unit. It is illegal.
Does this happen very often though? I haven’t really heard about this and can’t imagine anyone intentionally breaking the law for such a silly reason.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by Lisafuller » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:35 am

nelyanne wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 5:21 pm
MOCHS wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 5:13 pm
nelyanne wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 2:50 pm
@MOCHS - regarding HDB. It should also be stated, most of the HDBs are NOT available for rent to foreigners. Non-citizen quota is 8% for the neighborhood, 11% for the block. Also, renting HDB is not as cheap as it used to be. The price gap between renting an HDB and a condo has narrowed.
I know PRC, Taiwanese, Indian & Vietnamese researchers on EP renting HDBs and living in them currently. Yes, there is a quota but it’s not impossible to rent as a foreigner. Foreigners just cannot buy HDB.
Not impossible, but the options are very limited.
I am not surprised that the researchers are renting HDBs - many people working in research positions earn maybe 5-8k, so they don't have much choice (especially if they move to SG with a whole family). The author of the thread is in a different situation.
therat wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 4:42 pm
nelyanne wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 4:29 pm

Was your wife from Malaysia? Non-citizen quota doesn't apply to Malaysian PRs.
Some families are renting HDB flats where one room is 'officially' locked and occupied by the owner. That's a way to overcome the non-citizen quota. BUT you need to officially rent a whole flat in order to get a maid. So it's better to be aware of this.

Regarding proximity to public transport... Yes, there are some condos far away from any bus stop, forcing you to take taxi everywhere. But there are also condos linked directly to MRT station.
Lock a room - most of the time is due to owner 5 yrs MOP no meet. In order to rent out whole unit, owner need to stay at the unit for 5 yrs. And to rent out the whole unit, owner need to get HDB approve. If the owner lock a room (not staying in) and rent out the whole unit. It is illegal.
Yes, I know it's a workaround for the 5 yr restriction.
This is what I think as well, the situation that OP is in as hardly like the stories that are being brought up. I doubt OP will end picking a HDB, seems like a classic expat family with kids.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by MOCHS » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 7:16 am

I may not have kids but just saying that if my parents and other people raised their kids without cars, my current colleague with a 3 yo also makes do without a car, it is pretty do-able to have kids in SG without a car. You value convenience, others value saving money.

Even if OP earns 16K a month and it sounds like a lot at first, if his spouse isn’t working, and expat packages not being what it used to be, it’ll be a single income family juggling rent, utilities, groceries, other expenses, air tickets & accommodations to occasional overseas destinations for four pax, plus International School fees for two kids which isn’t cheap, I don’t think it’s financially prudent to add a car into the mix.

But if OP just wants to live here, not save, and jet home at the end their time in SG, it’s up to them. Just letting them know the possibilities so they can manage expectations.

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Re: Planning my move to Singapore

Post by smoulder » Thu, 28 Jul 2022 8:34 am

Lisafuller wrote:
Thu, 28 Jul 2022 2:20 am
smoulder wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 3:59 pm
nelyanne wrote:
Tue, 26 Jul 2022 2:50 pm
@MOCHS - regarding HDB. It should also be stated, most of the HDBs are NOT available for rent to foreigners. Non-citizen quota is 8% for the neighborhood, 11% for the block. Also, renting HDB is not as cheap as it used to be. The price gap between renting an HDB and a condo has narrowed.
I have rented HDBs as a foreigner (on an EP), so this is not true. Most of that was with my fiance (now wife) who was a PR and later became a citizen, but I don't think that gave me special privileges. I know of plenty of foreign families who rent HDBs. Yes, there could be restrictions - but those restrictions do not make it impossible.

I think like MOCHS mentioned and I alluded to it as well, sometimes paying more to live in a condo doesn't make much sense if you don't use the facilities - typically the swimming pool and the gym. I for one rarely use the pool and never use the gym - I have an Anytime Fitness membership so I end up double spending. And of course, you get more space for your money and proximity to shops and public transport in HDBs which you may not get in a condo.
I don’t think it’s about whether or not it is possible for a foreigner to rent an HDP, rather the difficulty (which is undeniable) is something that is quite off-putting for most. And with regards to the condo amenities, I must say that nothing beats the convenience of having all of your facilities centralized and within such close proximity. Convenience is so important, especially when you have children. And think about it, you might have the discipline to make the trip to an external gym but when you’re juggling work, kids, and a lack of motivation that distance can a lot of times be too much.
It's not that hard.

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