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sundaymorningstaple · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 3:55 pm Post subject:

beppi, funny enough, I do exactly the same thing. Especially seeing I'm around them more than around my own kind. Being a member of the Resident's Committee, it make a good ground breaker, especially at PA dinners. I just usually intro myself and their "Token Ang Moh" giving face to their table. Works a treat! Smile

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x9200 · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 4:48 pm Post subject:

I do the same and it never stops to surprise me that they are surprised that an Angmoh knows the phrase Angmoh.

beppi · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 5:16 pm Post subject:

The MP of Clementi is commonly referred to as "Ang Moh Kia" (Kia = boy) by the locals, because he has fair skin and less slanted eyes. He is Chinese and quite popular, so I'm sure no derogatory meaning is intended.

sensei_ · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject:

sundaymorningstaple · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:58 pm Post subject:

So they though you were a pompous arse did they? Being Asian and speaking with an adopted put on aussie accent izzit? Laughing

That's okay, you've lived there long enough but the ones I find funny are the locals who go on a 4 night 5 day tour of the UK and come back with received pronunciation. I gotta laugh as they are like parrots. It's okay until they go to their kopitiam and try to order kopi-c and the kopi auntie cannot understand them. They change back real quick! Smile

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v4jr4 · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:10 pm Post subject:

Brah · Reporter Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 852

I notice you didn't answer my question

Brah · Reporter Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 852

For you to even say things like 'emo' and 'disadvantaged' you put your own spin on what I wrote. If you're not up to the discussion on its intended merits you can always bow out, it's hard to have that conversation when words or meanings are twisted.

As I find your other posts well-balanced I'll take it that you misinterpreted this one of mine.

The racism I referred to is the unspoken racism between Indians / Malays / Singaporean Chinese / probably other Asians living here, and from what I understand, when it does exist, as of course not everyone is racist, that it's generally one-way from the Chinese on down. Of course as I'm not from any of those backgrounds I can't really comment on the veracity or prevalence of it, just what I read and hear about. But this is out of context on the Ang Moh topic, which is what we're really talking about.

Not sure how long you've lived here, I've been here a number of years, and most of them on this forum. We've had numerous, lively and intelligent discussions about how some don't like and some don't care about the term Ang Moh, and if I remember correctly it was usually about 50-50 for and against.

At the risk of taking Lynx's information out of context as being universal fact vs. what may be a very localized colloquialism, it was new to even someone like me who has been here for as long as I have, and it reopened some of those questions from past discussions.

My last question is yet to be answered, so until then, and until I'm comfortable with what I hear, I remain suspect of the Ang Moh term as a mask for Ang Moh Kau.

And while I don't care for being called Red Hair, it's a whole different level to be called a monkey, remember I lived in Japan where that term is a no-no and I was careful when using it in common conversation so as to it not be misconstrued.

If you want to color that emo (isn't that some kind of crappy 00s music?), or if you're ok being insulted when those insulting you do so anticipating your ignorance or lack of understanding, that is your prerogative. But I'm just not wired that way, armed with the knowledge of the (de)meaning and intent, to idly accept it. I don't do that to others and I ain't gonna let other do that to me, unless of course they like the taste of a knuckle sandwich.

Brah · Reporter Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 852

So what is your counter if you were to be called a monkey?

I don't speak Hokkien so wouldn't know the appropriate response. "Orh Moh" or "Orh Moh Kau"?

And BTW, your location is "Chocolate City" - from my Parliament / Funkadelic days do I recall that correctly as being Washington DC?

Brah · Reporter Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 852

Well, judge is a strong word. But I get what you're saying, and I think I covered it with the movies analogy.

I guess the thing is I/we won't always know when the intent is derogatory. From earlier threads we've covered how it's not meant by some as an insult. Ang Moh that is, not Ang Moh Kau.

Another analogy is the N-word - a lot of Black comedians and singers toss the term around casually, and between some African Americans in some situations it seems to be 'ok', but said in the wrong way or setting it is a very ugly word.

The difference being I am familiar with the context of that word, but not the various nuances of Hokkien from strangers.

And within my own circles did we not call ourselves the equivalents of the N-word and others? Yeah, we used to, and it was all in good fun. In those circles.

...so many responses tonight....I just hope from them we all come to a better understanding, and recognize that what may be ok for one person is not for another, and that does not make that person 'sensitive' when dealing with not outright bigots, but those posing as the contrary.
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sensei_ · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:26 pm Post subject:

v4jr4 · Posted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 10:30 pm Post subject:

It was happened long time ago. I used the similar patterns for counter attack, the other side couldn't accept, and things went physical without warning. Good thing is, no similar case happened afterwards. Not sure if it will happen again, since I'm not too good in maintaining a relationship with "bad spots".

The "Chocolate Factory" itself refers to Willy Wonka (kinda love that movie) Laughing

Brah · Reporter Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 852

[quote="v4jr4"]The "Chocolate Factory" itself refers to Willy Wonka (kinda love that movie) Laughing

x9200 · Posted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject:

http://www.angryangmo.com/2009.....oh-racism/

Pretty reasonable overview IMO.
It is also a good exercise to feed google with the phrase and see the context the locals use it. It's more easy this way to read their intentions and while there are some discussions where the use is clearly derogative I would say for the majority it is purely for the naming purpose.

Brah · Reporter Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 852

From what I've read of her posts, no I don't think she is the discriminating type, and more to the contrary, though Lynx has not said if she ever used the term AMK before, in jest or otherwise.

But I really still want to know whether or not AM is short for AMK. So far only the foreigners are speaking out on that, and few save for lifers like SMS or OOD would have been immersed in the culture deep enough or long enough to be able to really know with authority.

x9200 · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:50 am Post subject:

zzm9980 · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:53 am Post subject:

I was reading about some cafes on cnngo, and found a place that sounds good near me. Then I read their menu and blog after reading this thread, and now Brah's posts are making me doubt if I should go Embarassed

I have to admit, I'm starting to question "should I ignore it laugh along, or maybe I should be offended?"

http://blog.thegardenslug.com/.....-sio-kuay/

sundaymorningstaple · Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:31 am Post subject:

Looking at their Flickr photostream, the food defo looks interesting (especially their desserts). Call me anything except late for dinner! Cool

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earthfriendly · Reporter Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 825

Just to provide some cultural context. Chinese are comfortable with identifying people by their physical features. A very well know Hong Kong actress is known as fei fei (fei=fat) when her name is actually Lydia Sum.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/c.....466794.htm

I found out thru a white friend who previously lived in China that whites are referred to as 大鼻子 (da bi zhi =big nose) due to their higher and more pronounced nose structure . It is a coveted feature and Asians have gone under the knives to achieve that result. And they even put it on official sign. But when the Olympics came around, the govt tried to clam down on the Chinglish signs to appeal to international audience.

"Welcome big nose friends" and another for the Tibetan "Reception Centre for the Unorganised Tourists".

http://www.freerepublic.com/fo.....8458/posts

earthfriendly · Reporter Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 825

I would equate "angmoh" with the term "white". It does not really matter how they say it. If they don't like that particular white person , they can still express their sneer using a politically correct term e.g. "look at that disgusting white guy".

sundaymorningstaple · Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:41 pm Post subject:

Hey stranger! And, yep, I agree with you 100%!
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earthfriendly · Reporter Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 825

Hi SMS

Brah · Reporter Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 852

Good to hear from you EF, long time.

Agree that probably anything can be innocuous or caustic depending on the way it's used. And in Japan "takai hana" is also a weird sort of complementary descriptor.

But AMK? Have you heard people use that one EF?

Since Lynx seems uncomfortable to answer if she has said it or not.

the lynx · Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:32 pm Post subject:

sundaymorningstaple · Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:28 pm Post subject:

Brah, methinks you bit off a wee bit more'n you can chew this time! Laughing

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earthfriendly · Reporter Joined: 20 Aug 2005 Posts: 825

AMK= Ang mo kao. "kao" = hokkien for monkey. Not sure why there's a need to add "kao" to it since Ang mo would suffice. It sounds a bit impolite and juvenile-like. I think words derive a lot of meaning through context. N-word is overtly rascist in USA due to a specific historical event i.e. slavery. I don't feel AMK is rascist. Misguided, yes. Just like the term "Jap" is an abbreviation for Japanese when used by Singaporeans.

Also, in Chinese culture they like to draw parallels between the human and the animal kingdom. Manifested in the use of 12 animals in the zodiac. They like to ask each other what animal (year) you are born in. If you want to know how monkeys are percieved, you can look to the most infamous one "Sun Wu Kong" who appears in the well-loved chinese folklore "Journey of the West". He is mischievious, clever, untamable but fiercely loyal and protective of his monk master.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Wukong

But really at the end of the day, it is just my personal take. I cannot represent the entire population of Singapore Wink

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Brah · Reporter Joined: 18 Dec 2010 Posts: 852

If it's so petty why keep dodging it? Does it really matter whether others agree or not?

As you were the one who mentioned AMK, which I'd never heard in years here, and as it seems to have originated from your country (I don't know if that's the case), to hear from someone from there if they are not only familiar with it but have actually used it is a pretty fair question.

If you haven't you have nothing to hide; if you did you have a lot of supporters here and I doubt that anyone, including me, would condemn you for it. Without hearing it from you it becomes like Romney's taxes.

Sorry you perceive me to shoot the messenger, I don't see it that way and I wouldn't take trying to get a straight answer so personal.

That's not to say that over the years I haven't gone after a few select and deserving people on the forum, you're not one of them and I find your posts among the better ones.

And I do want to know more about whether AM is a derivative of AMK - but I'll ask local friends as I think we've got all the responses we're going to get here.

EF - interesting, and thanks for that. Your post raises the question as to whether this is strictly Malaysian slang.

So how are Caucasians referred to in places like Jakarta?

nakatago · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:00 pm Post subject:

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I would've gotten away with it too if it weren't for those meddling kids.

sundaymorningstaple · Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject:

^^^^^
Agreed!
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v4jr4 · Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 10:53 am Post subject:

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SINGAPORE EXPATS FORUM Singapore Expat Forum and Message Board for Expats in Singapore & Expatriates Relocating to Singapore

SINGAPORE EXPATS FORUM
Singapore Expat Forum and Message Board for
Expats in Singapore & Expatriates Relocating to Singapore