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What is the purpose of a Long Term Visit Pass?
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FootballFreak
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: What is the purpose of a Long Term Visit Pass?

Hello,

I recently got approved for my PR a few months back. My wife is a Singapore Citizen (born here) and we have a 18 month child that is also a singapore citizen (born here).

My parents are visiting us in town and since I have become a PR I figured I could apply for their Long Term Visit Passes (LTVP).

My parents are both in their 60s and are visiting us these days. We had their visit pass date extended by a month (no problems).

Surprisingly my father's application got rejected and for my mother the email said to submit supporting documents. I submitted documents and some exceptions were raised to the fact that I was submitting an offer letter from my company rather than a letter of employment. But the desk clerk said they could accept the application. For my cpf contribution to date they had me fill out an authorization form that stated they could access my cpf related information.

But after 2 days of submitting these documents they rejected my mother's LTVP application too.

It was my first time applying for these passes so I took with me whatever information I could find. I figured that since i'm a PR now it shouldn't be such a problematic thing to get approval for LTVPs for my parents. The reason I want to get them LTVPs is that this would allow them to visit us in singapore whenever they please since i'm working here. Also my daughter is growing up so I want her to spend time with her grand parents too and vice versa.

This was my rationale for applying for the LTVP. I don't know if this is wrong or if i'm looking at this the wrong way.


The desk clerk had me hand write a letter stating that I have employed a maid at home and the maid is tasked with taking care of my daughter. I figured she wanted me to state this to make it clear that my parents weren't seeking the long term visit pass to look after my daughter but rather to spend time with her (which I stated in the letter).

There seems to be no formal appeal process or form I could fill out. Only a resubmission of these documents along with my appeal letter to be submitted at the 8th floor of ICA (according to the desk clerk).

I'm wondering if this LTVP is worth all the trouble. Took a half day leave from work to be present in person to submit documents, but it seems ICA doesn't want to make it easy for me to have my parents over to visit whenever they please.

I guess i'm partly venting my frustration and looking for advice or an explanation as to what I did wrong in my application process.

Some friends say that my admission of employing a maid for my daughter nullifies the purpose of an LTVP for my parents. Which is ridiculous because an LTVP means the holders can frequent Singapore without the visa requirement hassle since i'm working here.

Would love to hear some thoughts from people here about this.

Cheers.
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the lynx
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject:

How much are you earning? That is also another factor because you need to prove that you are financially capable to support your parents when they are here for long-term.

Not sure if having the maid is a factor but I'm interested to see comments from other forum regulars.
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FootballFreak
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:52 am    Post subject:

I'm currently making slightly under 5k a month. I don't have my own property yet, but i'm balloting for a BTO.

But I have been working in Singapore since 2008.

Immigration were reluctant to give me my PR too. Rejected my application thrice and only changed their mind when my wife wrote to the local MP complaining that she doesn't understand why ICA doesn't want to give me a PR when i'm supporting her and our child.

I wondered why they didn't consider that the third time I applied.

Thanks for replying. I guess if financial earning is a factor then it could be unrealistic for me to expect the LTVP applications to be approved.
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Saint
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:53 am    Post subject:

One very important bit of info you forgot to mention, where are you and your parents from?
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FootballFreak
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:54 am    Post subject:

Pakistan.

If my country of origin matters then things look even bleaker!
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Saint
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:57 am    Post subject:

FootballFreak wrote:
Pakistan.

If my country of origin matters then things look even bleaker!


Bingo!
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sundaymorningstaple
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:11 am    Post subject:

Yep. You fit the scenario to a T. It's no wonder it's been refused. You are showing symptoms of the Subcontinent PR Syndrome and while a stereotype, it comes directly from people from that area gaining PR so that they can bring in the whole family. This is the reason why it's now extremely hard to get extended family over on other than the normal Social Visit Pass.

I doubt very seriously that you are going to be able to get them over here on anything other than the SVP.

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Some friends say that my admission of employing a maid for my daughter nullifies the purpose of an LTVP for my parents. Which is ridiculous because an LTVP means the holders can frequent Singapore without the visa requirement hassle since i'm working here.


Where did you get that load of claptrap from? The LTVP doesn't mean a pass with the express purpose of eliminating the visa requirements. Lot's of countries don't even need visas to come here. However, the fact that you employ a maid to look after your daughter did signal that the purpose of your wanting LTVPs for you parents was to just get them in the country for long periods of time to abuse the system and the PR you were given. I'd almost bet you married for the same reason. Rolling Eyes
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FootballFreak
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:29 am    Post subject:

Well I guess I should be gracious that immigration still grants my parents SVPs.

Thanks for your feedback.

The claptrap was just hearsay at work. I don't really buy the maid as being a reason, but this is really why I want to understand what purpose does the LTVP serve? I assumed it was to make it easy for holders to frequent their relatives or partners in singapore without the need for a visa. Maybe i'm wrong about the non-requirement of the visa but there doesn't seem to be any indication on ica's website that LTVP holders require a visa to enter Singapore.

I would also appreciate if you could keep your comments reserved to the subject being discussed here and not extend it to include my personal life or why I chose a job in Singapore or why I married my wife. I haven't shared any aspect of these areas of my immigration experience in Singapore.

Your stereotypes have no relevance to my situation, neither does your underlying tone of xenophobia.

If someone is coming to Singapore to work then its safe to assume they will want to keep their family close. I don't have plans to settle my extended family here, but I do want to avail the facility of an LTVP for the sake of easing the process of hosting my parents when they want to visit me.

If immigration was so averse to this reality then i'm sure they would have told me that they don't want my family to visit me or they don't want me here.

I don't think thats the case, but your comment seems to indicate this would be your policy if you were controller of immigration.
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x9200
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:47 am    Post subject:

Well, they pretty clearly told you they don't want your extended family to stay here longer, didn't they?

Look at this from "their" perspective: bringing the extended family here to stay longer than required does not bring any more serious tangible benefits to this country. You will spend a bit more and in exchange contribute to the already overcrowded infrastructure and strongly ever present antiforeigner sentiments.
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FootballFreak
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject:

I'm starting to realize pretty fast that I was quite naive to expect constructive discourse from members of this forum -- or at least the moderators here who I assumed should be safeguarding good discourse and not muddling it with their swashbuckling sentiments on immigration and what foreigners or PRs should behave like.

I apologize. The "Singapore Expat" term really misguided me into thinking I could get good value in return for sharing my immigration experience.
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the lynx
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject:

Easy there. We have no motive of being xenophobic. We are mostly foreigners like yourself.

Our postulations are based on anecdotal evidence after many many years being here. And we are trying to think from the perspective of ICA. You can only blame your countrymen for ruining it for genuine PRs like us. And spending many years on this board, we have met many people who ask questions but only wanting to hear what is deemed music to their ears. We tell truth as it is and we're better than people who raise your false hopes, and to gloat over you watching them dashed instead. Tough love.

Stereotypes occur because it happens in a pattern. Happens everywhere else. Of course, it is not that you're saying that what your countrymen did isn't wrong etc, but what happened has laid the groundwork for the current tightening of passes for certain groups of people by ICA.

Now to resolve the problem, I am unsure if 5K a month is solid enough to convince them that you are capable of feeding another two persons, since you already have a maid to pay for. Is your wife working as well? Perhaps combined income will be high enough?
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FootballFreak
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:08 pm    Post subject:

@the lynx

You seem to be the only beacon of hope here.

I understand the underpinnings of stereotypes and why they are established. But they shouldn't be associated with me regardless. Lumping my experience with "the subcontinent PR syndrome" is pretty crass and then punctuating it with a supposed knowledge of why I married my wife is abominable.

I don't associate stereotypes with the people I know or consider stereotypes to be of any value in spite of their existence.

I will apply again for my parents LTVP once I have better understood the purpose it serves immigration and its recipients.

Thank you for your advice and placation.
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Wd40
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject:

@FootballFreak, nobody seems to have answered your original question i.e. what the LTSVP is for. So let me help you on that. The LTSVP is for dependants who otherwise dont qualify for dependant pass but meet requirements for the LTSVP pass can stay with you in Singapore as a resident.

Yes they are considered as residents and not tourists and hence there is that baggage associated with it. If your salary is only 5k and your spouse is not working and you have a maid then how are you going to support your parents here. Thats the question ICA would be asking. You may argue that your parents are well off and they can support themselves, but then the LTSVP is for dependents, so that logic wont fly and niether will ICA be interested in verifying the assets your parents have got.

Another possible reason could also be the fact that SMS has highlighted, that is drain on the country's infrastructure. They want to reduce as many dependents as possible and hence recently they have made some serious restrictions on EP holders in terms of getting their parents or in laws here.

So even without getting into the aspects of your race/nationality, you already have 2 problems there.

I hope you got the point, its their country, their rules.
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habeebhashim
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:08 pm    Post subject:

Wd40 wrote:


.....

Another possible reason could also be the fact that SMS has highlighted, that is drain on the country's infrastructure. They want to reduce as many dependents as possible and hence recently they have made some serious restrictions on EP holders in terms of getting their parents or in laws here.



I'm an Indian on a P1 pass with my wife and 4 kids here on DP. I applied for a LTVP for my mum in 2010 which was rejected. Mum didn't care much as she mostly preferred staying with my sis in NZ. Not sure if it was the race card or the issues with infrastructure that SMS pointed out, that was to play there. Besides, a SVP is pretty easy to apply and renew here so it isn't that big a deal. Now if it was a hassle like it is in Dubai......
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FootballFreak
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Reply with quote PostPosted: Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:02 pm    Post subject:

Thank you for the insight. I'm still happy enough that they are being issued social visit passes.

I guess my best bet would be to only to apply again if there is a significant increase in my salary.

Appreciate the information.
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