Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:05 am Post subject: First timer for moving far far from the nest...
Hi all, I wonder if you'd be able to help me. I've had a look through various topics, but couldn't find anything specifically that answers my question(s).
Ive been offered a job in Singapore, and probably heading out around mid-Feb. Though my company is picking up the tab for many things including somewhere to stay for the first month, I was worried about some finnancial elements.
On the guide on here it implies that I need to pay 3 months deposit (if I want to sign up for a year to start with). Though I can probably afford that later down the line, I don't think I can immediately in the first month of moving. So my questions about this are:
1)Would it be 3 months deposit? And if so, does that normally include the first month rent? I read about you deducting your 'good-faith' part...
2)If I didnt want to approach my company asking for a loan from them to help me get started, is it easy to arrange a short term bank loan to help with deposit? Given that part of my first month I'd be opening a SG account. WOuld it be a case of heading into a bank with proof of pay and so on, or would I have to build up good credit first?
The guide also says to get a realtor. Does anyone reccomend a company, or are they all much the same? In the UK I never really trust them as they always seem to add huge fees, where private renting is much cheaper for bigger property.
I feel like at the moment I hav a million questions, but I won't ask them now. This one is just me worrying about the initial costs. Thanks in advance!
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:31 am Post subject: Re: First timer for moving far far from the nest...
mrjester wrote:
1)Would it be 3 months deposit? And if so, does that normally include the first month rent? I read about you deducting your 'good-faith' part...
A standard figure for one year lease is 1 month deposit. If a good faith deposit is involved (typically associated with a letter of intent or in short LOI) then you may have one more month deposit or less (so all together maximum 2 months deposit). The good faith deposit covers later your first month rental.
On top of this you may also expect to pay a commission to your agent (if you are going to hire one).
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:31 am Post subject: Re: First timer for moving far far from the nest...
mrjester wrote:
On the guide on here it implies that I need to pay 3 months deposit (if I want to sign up for a year to start with). Though I can probably afford that later down the line, I don't think I can immediately in the first month of moving. So my questions about this are:
Expats are expected to pay 3 months deposit, heck a 12 month up front payment is good So much for 'expats'
2)If I didnt want to approach my company asking for a loan from them to help me get started, is it easy to arrange a short term bank loan to help with deposit? Given that part of my first month I'd be opening a SG account. WOuld it be a case of heading into a bank with proof of pay and so on, or would I have to build up good credit first?
Will not work for non-PR/non-Citizen, though some banks are getting away with it .. if your pay exceeds x $ .. or so .. then again, you need to have 3 months salary slip, and then again they find innovative ways to overcome that too .. they want to give out money .. the more the merrier
Do read up on the local banks sites, on the requirements for credit cards .. _________________ ============================
What the others say is correct in regards to the deposit, 1 month deposit for a 1 year lease and 1 year "good faith deposit" that becomes the first month rental is standard. If you look on the usual property web pages (here, propertyguru, iproperty etc.) The other option is taking a smaller or cheaper property in the meantime (like a single room or similar) to keep costs down, there is not much point in getting yourself in too much debt to start with!
In regards to credit cards, you will probably struggle to get a credit card straight away unless it's from your bank you get your wages paid into, also, the deposit for your property will likely be required to be paid by cheque, not credit card as it's to the landlord directly. _________________ nutnut
In regards to credit cards, you will probably struggle to get a credit card straight away unless it's from your bank you get your wages paid into, also, the deposit for your property will likely be required to be paid by cheque, not credit card as it's to the landlord directly.
Oh, a lot prefer 'cash' ... if you deal with Landlords .. Agents don't mind cheque ..
Never heard of any landlord (or Agents .. ) who will accept Credit Card _________________ ============================
In my experience, rental terms are more likely 2 years contract and 2 months deposit. This does not include the first month rent. And if you engaged an agent, he will also want half or a full month rent. So in the worst case, you need four months upfront. But everything is negotiable and there are better terms available - in my current place, upfront payment was first and last month rent plus S$1000 reimbursable deposit (you never find such deals through agents, so I recommend you skip them!).
We latterly had a 2 year lease. When we signed the agreement we paid one months refundable deposit and one month's rent in advance.
We did use an agent but didn't pay them anything (but they were family, so no need ). The landlord paid for their agent, who we then dealt through on an ongoing basis during the tenancy and they were absolutely fantastic, couldn't have asked for better service (but I appreciate we were very lucky in this respect). So the OP could do without an agent and just trawl the usual newspaper ads and agents portals, as these agents will all be by definition working and paid for by the Landlord, and hence none of them can legally charge him a fee.
The OP says he's getting a serviced apartment for the first month, so I'm unclear what this 'goodwill' payment is. If you're signing an agreement there and then on a long term flat, er, how does additional goodwill figure in that?
The OP asked about getting a loan, not about getting a credit card. I don't know the answer. I wonder if his employer could or should be granting him a loan? I believe this is what happened with the me the first time I pitched up to work in SG. I don't think he should have to move into a temporary flatshare just in order to be able to afford the start-up fees of his own place.
In my experience, rental terms are more likely 2 years contract and 2 months deposit. This does not include the first month rent. And if you engaged an agent, he will also want half or a full month rent. So in the worst case, you need four months upfront. But everything is negotiable and there are better terms available - in my current place, upfront payment was first and last month rent plus S$1000 reimbursable deposit (you never find such deals through agents, so I recommend you skip them!).
Agreed, and double agreed on skipping the agent!! Also beware, many companies that give you relocation will set you up with "orientation". They'll "show you around" and "help you find a place to live". Before you realize what's happening, that's actually an agent you have to pay for your rental.
Anyway, mine was two months security deposit, and first month upon signing the TA (tenancy agreement). Plus, one more month plus GST (another 7%) to the agent.
The one thing I will give that the agent did for me was front all of the money I needed up front. I got myself into a funny situation where I kind of forgot to arrange any banking setup before I left. I was stuck withdrawing my max $1000 per day from the HSBC ATM and re-depositing it at the DBS ATM for the first few weeks The agent laughed and let me wire him all of the money a few weeks later when I was settled.
Of course considering what he made, a loan shark would have been much cheaper.
in my current place, upfront payment was first and last month rent plus S$1000 reimbursable deposit (you never find such deals through agents, so I recommend you skip them!).
I disagree (or in Beppi-speak, 'You're wrong!' ).
We paid a months rent and a month as a depo up-front, i.e. two months. That was the starting position, there wasn't any negotiation or even discussion about those terms. So the deal we got using an agent, two months rent for both you and me being considered equivalent for the sake of comparison, was $1000 better than yours.
The up-front requirement to pay a 'last months rent' (and then a depo on top), suggests to me a landlord who has been burned by a tenant either doing a runner, or the old chestnut of the tenants who believe it is their right to withold their last month's rent becuase 'I know he won't give my deposit back', who then as often as not also leave a load of bills and damages . Well, it's a bad attitude for a landlord to take up as policy, as it sets a negative tone from the beginning (the presumption of guilt).... but one for another discussion...
In terms of the temporary accomodation by employer, it's more likely to be a hotel, or room with a shower really. Just enough to get me by while I do the searching.
I'm sure worst case if I struggle I can ask for an advance on my wages, it's just in my head it looks bad to be offered a job to immediately ask for a company loan. But maybe I'm too nice lol
I understand the thing about deposits, even in the UK I've been stung for non-refunded deposit (the landlaord saying it costs £££ to clean the skirting boards). In the UK there's contractual elements these days that say 10% wear and tear on a property is expected. Also, your deposit is often now held in excrow with specialist tennancy deposit companies so neither the landlord nor tennant can do a runner with the money.
To to put some figures to it, Im tentatively looking at a budget of $2,500 per month for a place. So the consensus is that I need a fund of $5,000 (deposit plus 1 month)? The $2,500 is from internet research looking at somewhere not huge, and not shoebox and not right in business district.
To to put some figures to it, Im tentatively looking at a budget of $2,500 per month for a place. So the consensus is that I need a fund of $5,000 (deposit plus 1 month)? The $2,500 is from internet research looking at somewhere not huge, and not shoebox and not right in business district.
Are you renting Condo or HDB? What amenities are you looking for?
If you're OK with HDB rental, you're OK at 2000-2500. That's about the price range for a 3-room (Two bedroom) HDB unit. About 750sq/ft, so definitely not a shoebox. The variance will be mostly location. For example, I'm at 2600 for a unit like that, but the location is high floor, end unit, unobstructed sea-view. But, not walking to MRT.
To to put some figures to it, Im tentatively looking at a budget of $2,500 per month for a place. So the consensus is that I need a fund of $5,000 (deposit plus 1 month)? The $2,500 is from internet research looking at somewhere not huge, and not shoebox and not right in business district.
Are you renting Condo or HDB? What amenities are you looking for?
If you're OK with HDB rental, you're OK at 2000-2500. That's about the price range for a 3-room (Two bedroom) HDB unit. About 750sq/ft, so definitely not a shoebox. The variance will be mostly location. For example, I'm at 2600 for a unit like that, but the location is high floor, end unit, unobstructed sea-view. But, not walking to MRT.
But it is only you right? No spouse/children/family following you? So I guess that 2000-2500 range for HDB is way more than enough for a single room occupancy, regardless of location.
Usually condo is a fave among expats, which in that case, that range is sufficient. _________________ scratched by the lynx
You can get a room in a decent condo for around $1K a month outside the CBD, may be the best option to start off with, if you like the idea of having a pool and gym on your doorstep? _________________ nutnut
To to put some figures to it, Im tentatively looking at a budget of $2,500 per month for a place. So the consensus is that I need a fund of $5,000 (deposit plus 1 month)? The $2,500 is from internet research looking at somewhere not huge, and not shoebox and not right in business district.
Are you renting Condo or HDB? What amenities are you looking for?
If you're OK with HDB rental, you're OK at 2000-2500. That's about the price range for a 3-room (Two bedroom) HDB unit. About 750sq/ft, so definitely not a shoebox. The variance will be mostly location. For example, I'm at 2600 for a unit like that, but the location is high floor, end unit, unobstructed sea-view. But, not walking to MRT.
But it is only you right? No spouse/children/family following you? So I guess that 2000-2500 range for HDB is way more than enough for a single room occupancy, regardless of location.
Usually condo is a fave among expats, which in that case, that range is sufficient.
Nope, wife and eight month old also. I read the OP's most recent post to imply he wanted his own place, not a room in a place. Perhaps I'm mistaken. I wasn't aware of any non-shoebox condos available at that price.
To to put some figures to it, Im tentatively looking at a budget of $2,500 per month for a place. So the consensus is that I need a fund of $5,000 (deposit plus 1 month)? The $2,500 is from internet research looking at somewhere not huge, and not shoebox and not right in business district.
Are you renting Condo or HDB? What amenities are you looking for?
If you're OK with HDB rental, you're OK at 2000-2500. That's about the price range for a 3-room (Two bedroom) HDB unit. About 750sq/ft, so definitely not a shoebox. The variance will be mostly location. For example, I'm at 2600 for a unit like that, but the location is high floor, end unit, unobstructed sea-view. But, not walking to MRT.
But it is only you right? No spouse/children/family following you? So I guess that 2000-2500 range for HDB is way more than enough for a single room occupancy, regardless of location.
Usually condo is a fave among expats, which in that case, that range is sufficient.
Nope, wife and eight month old also. I read the OP's most recent post to imply he wanted his own place, not a room in a place. Perhaps I'm mistaken. I wasn't aware of any non-shoebox condos available at that price.
Not you! I was asking OP Sorry if I wasn't clear LOL _________________ scratched by the lynx
Last edited by the lynx on Thu Jan 12, 2012 1:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
Everything makes much more sense now This is what I get for trying to troll forums while half-listening on conference calls. I hope my work emails don't wind up as incoherent!
Everything makes much more sense now This is what I get for trying to troll forums while half-listening on conference calls. I hope my work emails don't wind up as incoherent!
Haha, I know what you mean! _________________ nutnut
Also... where's best to seach for these 'outside CBD' condos? I had a quick look on the properties here and nothing jumped out. I might not have put the correct criteria I guess??
Is it something best done in person and have a wander around when I get to Singapore?
Depends on what you want from the area you live in! how far are you willing to travel etc. Condos near International Schools are more expensive normally, so you may find a pricey condo in the middle of no where, it's just convenient for a particular school!
Tell us what your commute will be (where you work) and your willingness to commute, (30mins/40mins/1hr) and the kinds of facilities you want in your nearby area (Beach/shopping malls/blah blah blah) and whether you will be happy with Buses (they are good here) or you are desperate for an MRT being close by.
All this will help us, help you! _________________ nutnut
I suppose the honest answer is "I don't know" lol. However, based on say my London living, my commute is/was 30-40mins by car, and same by train as I had a 15min walk to the nearest tube station. So happy for that kind of commute.
My office is on/in Orchard.
In terms of facilities, I guess the usual grocery shop not too far, maybe not a million miles from somewhere to go see a film or have a drink (though in London, going out could take an hour or more to get home anyway).
Somehwere cheap in Singapore that would be 40 mins from Orchard, you could look even somewhere like Yishun or Woodlands, if you get a place near the MRT then you'd do that in no problem to have the 40 mins commute.
Have a look at this, I found this useful when trying to look for a place, it's a little outdated, it doesn't have the condos near the circle line and doesn't have a lot of new places, but otherwise it's very good! _________________ nutnut
In terms of facilities, I guess the usual grocery shop not too far, maybe not a million miles from somewhere to go see a film or have a drink (though in London, going out could take an hour or more to get home anyway).
Lucky you that you're not in Raffles and the rest of the CBD area, where the human traffic rears its ugly head in MRTs, buses, roads and ERPs.
Orchard should be easy. Holland to Serangoon (East to West), Yishun/AMK to Tiong Bahru (North to South) - you should be able to get there on a quick ride in the bus (if you are lucky enough to land in those convenient bus routes) or MRT will be just fine too.
And don't worry about movies, drinks and fun. Orchard itself already offers a heaven of options (it is a shopping belt district) which is very convenient after work. _________________ scratched by the lynx
I suppose the honest answer is "I don't know" lol. However, based on say my London living, my commute is/was 30-40mins by car, and same by train as I had a 15min walk to the nearest tube station. So happy for that kind of commute.
My office is on/in Orchard.
In terms of facilities, I guess the usual grocery shop not too far, maybe not a million miles from somewhere to go see a film or have a drink (though in London, going out could take an hour or more to get home anyway).
You can use google maps or gothere.sg to find out travel/commute directions and times, and adding streetdirectory, nearby facilities as well.
Singapore generally has everything accessible but there are neighborhoods that are surprisingly inconvenient. _________________ This is why we can't have nice things.
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The agent laughed and let me wire him all of the money a few weeks later when I was settled.
).
. Well, it's a bad attitude for a landlord to take up as policy, as it sets a negative tone from the beginning (the presumption of guilt).... but one for another discussion...
