Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 2:04 pm Post subject: Faith
I was discussing religion, with a friend of mine in the Caribbean, she goes to church every weekend and prays every day.
I am not a follower of church gatherings, because i have over the years formed my own opinions on preaching the faith.
When asked if i believe in god, I say "I do believe in god" So why don't you go to church is the next reply.
Having faith in god and faith in people is quite a clash of differences, because I have lost faith in the Church and the people that represent god, having been witness to all the publicity of sexual abuse, committed by church representatives.
One may wonder, that the publicity is an over reaction, but how can one condone, the cover ups, by the Churches involved...
Ever since i was in the salvation army and boy scouts, I sensed feelings of scout masters and clerics, pushing the limits of body language, one can get those feelings, that say, hey why are you getting so close to me, without anything really happening.
We has children used to laugh about it between ourselves, I guess being street wise at a very young age, may have saved us from unpleasant experiences..
Although I do have faith in god! whoever he, it, or she is, I cannot help, but wonder over all the pain and suffering in the world...So today I have chosen another path...my own, it is a combination of knowledge of many faiths, and more buddhist orientated, for I wish no one any harm, and want to live in a peaceful world.
My christian friend, who follows a jehovah god, and means, that if one doesn't follow christian beliefs, then one doesn't transend above the primitive life, because one has no faith in god...and that is why, so many are at war with eachother.
Could it not be, that my belief of one god, is shared by all, and that the warring fractions, are fighting for their own beliefs, in the one god, so there must be something wrong, with the preachers!
She argues, that islam is not a religion, of which i disagree, I know, the faith quite well, and I have a great deal of respect for the Koran...and others religions too.
My only point is that humans should know, what is right & what is wrong, and yes, we can see differences around the world, how, people react to violence for example, in Malaysia, we often read of brutal muder, with parang attacks, these offences also happen in Singapore, too.
Yet do these kind of attacks, happen in USA or UK on a daily basis?
What is your belief? That if one has faith in god, one transends above the savage ways of those, with no god?
Do you believe, that having a god, helps you to be a better person?
Do you believe one should go to church to pray?
Or do you believe that in general it's all down to human instinct, of knowing what is right and what is wrong?
I believe in the last one, of knowing what is right and what is wrong, I don't need to be preached to by Church representatives, my belief is that the church hides, to many secrets, and attracts, the predators of abuse, and that is why I refuse to allow my daughter to attend these gatherings.
Yes it is sad, that I feel, this, but we must also realise, that God is not tangible, and the Church has much to answer for!
I hope no one takes offense, of this, because no offence was intended, I just wanted to make my point, that I am a believer in god, that I do not follow any religion, only my instincts, and my instincts tell me, there is good in all, and that I don't need anyone, to preach anything different. _________________ http://www.drinkingvinegar.com
Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: Faith
ksl wrote:
What is your belief? That if one has faith in god, one transends above the savage ways of those, with no god?
I sometimes consider religion an acceptable cult, at least when considering the way they started and what they turned into.
The fact that people believe in a God is up to them and i have no problem with it so long as you don't force me to thing the same way. I am a scientist / engineer in the head and heart and for me it's tough to believe in an all-singing, all-dancing power, especially if you consider the evil in the world. I know many scientists and engineers also believe in God but the rationalisation of that must be different to my own.
I look at mountain sides in the Philippines or Indonesia and you'll hear locals bring up "the Will of God" after their village is wiped out in a landslide. Sorry, it was greedy government officials that allowed illegal logging not God's Will however if this allows the villagers a more comfortable explanation then i don't see why i should argue.
Quote:
Do you believe, that having a god, helps you to be a better person?
No.
Quote:
Do you believe one should go to church to pray?
No need, but it may bring comfort.
Quote:
Or do you believe that in general it's all down to human instinct, of knowing what is right and what is wrong?
I do believe this. Whilst i am not a firm follower, i like the teachings in Bhuddism simply for the thoughts on how to make a person better. Was Bhudda a real person? He stands a higher chance of being real than a Christian God. The synical would say this is why Jesus was "invented", to prove the existance of God, although which came first God or the religion?
I think that I would be classified as a Latitudinarian. I'm spiritual, I believe in some higher power or purpose, I believe that having some sort of spirituality is helpful to humans and to society. I believe that the conscience and the ability to judge and reason are the most important parts of humanity.
However, I am not religious. I think that on the balance, religion has done far more harm than good over the centuries. I think that religious texts and doctrines are the words of fallible men, not god(s). I think that religious people who condemn/attack those who have chosen other religions are evil.
I believe that the individual should follow their conscience, and may require guidance or assistance in learning how to do so or understanding how they truly feel. But at the end of the day, they should listen to how they truly feel, rather than what a robed individual tells them to believe.
I think that if there was a supreme being who created all of us in his or her image, it would have been done with this intention: given that what separates humans from animals is this conscience and ability to reason, surely a creator would want us to use this as a guide. It makes no sense to me then that the only path to salvation would be through blind belief in something that there is no evidence of - i.e. denying the gifts given to you. If you were created a specific way by a higher power, then surely doing good would mean doing good by your deepest, most inner beliefs.
Very nice reply, I feel also that spirituality, is better for me too, I have never been one to listen to others, not even my employers, I'm a free spirit, and there can only be one...my conscience rules my heart, and my life...I have a very good conscience
Turtle, you have said what I would have liked to say but a lot more eloquently than I ever could. Spot on.
I've tried in the past to explain my agnosticism without success but my language capabilities are hampered by my ole farmboy upbringing and lack of higher education. Excellent post. _________________ . Helpful Links for Expats in Singapore
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Turtle, it seems quite a few of us can relate and identify with your post. Beautifully said and right on the mark as far as I'm concerned. _________________ One man's meat is another's poison.
Thanks, people - it's something that came to me years back, when I was young and being forced to go to church. I just find that there's a huge gap, on the one hand humans, created by hand by God in His image - which I think mostly everyone would agree to mean reason, logic and conscience (as animals do not have these) - yet on the other hand, saying that you can't go to paradise unless you refuse to use your reason and logic, i.e. you reject your gifts and just believe what someone else tells you.
The conclusion I draw from it all is that if there is "something more", you get there by being a good person, regardless of how many oaths you take and hymns you sing and sermons you listen to. These things may help you become a better person, but in the end it's all very internal - I think spirituality is the most personal thing there is in the world, which is why trying to force somebody to change theirs is hugely pointless and probably dangerous. What's even more dangerous are religions that make a follower's passage to paradise contingent on converting others, I couldn't imagine living a life like that.
Good posts ksl, and everyone else. Mostly that is.
I too am not religious. A diet of George Orwell when younger, and some of Bertrand Russell for example later on in life does not make for a good christian (or muslim or anything else for that matter!).
I do not believe in a supreme being who created the universe, for the question of how the supreme being came about will never be answered either. Is it inherently any more believable that the world must have been created by omnipotent being than that it the world is the way it is, created and evoloving, and possibly ending by laws that may or may not be physics as we humans understand it.
What I mean to say is this: someone I knew once was laughed at for being a fan of silly wrestling entertainment. Everyone said he was silly for watching anything as 'made-up' as that. His retort, plain yet beautiful was: is it any more or less real than anything you watch in the movies or on tv?
Anyway, my disagreement with religion is the way it throws up as many questions as it does answers. Enough so to convince me that god, in his (his being more convenient to say than he /she!) mostly widely acknowledge guise, and with his guiding principles on how humans should behave does not exist.
To me, and I think most of us who have posted in this post will agree, god is a human construct. Why such a construct? And why it appeals to people?
To reduce it to it's most simplistic, it is the fact that humans have a capacity to think and feel that almost no other animal can. And the most primal fear any human can have, is that of death. Religion solves that.
Except to those of us who think about it, and find that it doesn't, or at least not in a way we can accept in our heart of hearts.
I had dinner with my wife's friends who are very pious christians. Over dinner, they quizzed me on my religious beliefs, which of course I told them. To which they said.' but surely you must think there's something bigger than you, that I should think about what happens after death'. The presumption of it all! The cheek!
My mother-in-law frequently asks me when I will allow myself to be baptized, and when she feels like it, demand that I should convert to christianity if I love my wife! Wow...
I would very much like to tell her why I am not christian, but I know I will get nowhere.
That is the problem.
Religion is not what causes humans to go at each other's throats, religion is not what makes some homosexual people feel persecuted.
Religion is merely the outlet, the convenient excuse for these people to persecute others. And some people don't even need religion to deny other people their dignity on the grounds of these other people being 'different in a lesser way'.
The real problem is human ignorance, and there is no easy solution to this. In fact. I'd say there isn't.
Most of you who have posted are not religious, yet believe you are capable of making a positive difference to the world, because of the way you think and feel. And where do you think you got these ideas from? From being educated, and taking it upon to educate yourself on many issues.
But this kind of mindset is the exception rather than the norm. Personal enlightenment is what the world needs, but there are as many factors working against it as there are for it. Religion will die out in such a world because it has no relevance.
Hopefully in time.
cutiebuttie,
'It depends if you believe in the words of your God and act accordingly.
Then, yes. It does make you a better person.'
You'd be surprised how many of us disagree, and we aren't murderers, rapists or even plain swindlers. And how contradictory we find the 'words of god' as well.
I think some of you are aware of the so-called new ten commandments, and obviously, you will have guessed it has nothing to do with religion at all.
I first came across it in Richard Dawkin's 'The God Delusion'. A book with a strident tone, comes across as sounding unduly harsh until you consider the fact that he does not intend anyone who has read his book and disagreed with it to burn in hell for eternity.
Anyway, I have dug out these commandments from some website:
1) First Commandment: Do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you.
2) Second Commandment: In all things, strive to cause no harm.
3) Third Commandment: Treat your fellow human beings, your fellow living things, and the world in general with love, honesty, faithfulness and respect.
4) Fourth Commandment: Do not overlook evil or shrink from administering justice, but always be ready to forgive wrongdoing freely admitted and honestly regretted.
5) Fifth Commandment: Live life with a sense of joy and wonder.
6) Sixth Commandment: Always seek to be learning something new.
7) Seventh Commandment: Test all things; always check your ideas against the facts, and be ready to discard even a cherished belief if it does not conform to them.
8) Eighth Commandment: Never seek to censor or cut yourself off from dissent; always respect the right of others to disagree with you.
9) Ninth Commandment: Form independent opinions on the basis of your own reason and experience; do not allow yourself to be led blindly by others.
10) Tenth Commandment: Question everything.
A lot of us have followed at least one, probably more of them without even consciously knowing so, but simply because we have felt somewhere deep inside, that's how we should live.
Apologies for this rambling.
As for death, yes I am still afraid of it and found no solution yet. I think I'd better just get on with this life as it is first, not like there isn't enough to do here.
Religion is merely the outlet, the convenient excuse for these people to persecute others. And some people don't even need religion to deny other people their dignity on the grounds of these other people being 'different in a lesser way'.
I definitely agree with that. I remember bits and pieces from a Philosophy class about how groups find it easiest to define themselves by defining "the other", the opposite, the outsiders, and therefore find it easiest to feel better about themselves by convincing themselves how "the other" is worse. In a religious context, this is woven right into the beginnings - "the other" goes to hell. Non-believers are traitors against their very creator, so on and so forth. Therefore it is very easy for people to use religion to "prove" their own superiority - and from history we can see that it is probably the most common method of all. The Crusades for example - if you did not risk your life or donate all of your wealth to the Crusades, you were an enemy to your own religion.
I have been told this is a very good book to read: Man Made God: The Meaning of Life by the philosopher Luc Ferry. It's about how over time, spirituality and divinity have become less about some untouchable, omnipotent creature, and more about humans and humanity. I have yet to read it, but my significant other reminds me about it all the time, so I thought I would pass it along.
Lets not forget religion came about in a period when 99% of the population were illiterate and total education as we know it today did not exist it was a simple and convenient way to instill some form of social order to the masses.
I noticed the school we have been looking at for our child is religious free. Only has religious classes to highlight the difference and origins of the worlds religion.
I was talking to a normal middle age family man here, and he reckons Mas Selmat escaped using black magic powder , so much for the education here, but its no dafter than some educated westerners, really think Jesus walked on water, and was born as a result of immaculate conception.
Everyone need a crutch in life, be it drink, drugs or religion, etc. but my pet dislike is when they try and force it on you. Nothing worse than a heavy drinker saying go on have a drink you got to enjoy life, or some happy clapper saying go on believe in the bible you got to get a meaning in life
I was discussing religion, with a friend of mine in the Caribbean, she goes to church every weekend and prays every day.
I am not a follower of church gatherings, because i have over the years formed my own opinions on preaching the faith.
When asked if i believe in god, I say "I do believe in god" So why don't you go to church is the next reply.
Although I do have faith in god! whoever he, it, or she is, I cannot help, but wonder over all the pain and suffering in the world...So today I have chosen another path...my own, it is a combination of knowledge of many faiths
Need to say that it's easy to declare that one doesn't believe in God. Anyone can do that. No courage required. Proof is there. What we can't see is clearly NOT there.
Much harder and courageous to say that I believe in God (or a higher being) OR I believe that this scenario is possible.
As for me, well I prefer the tougher stance. I can't prove a damned thing and never will be able to. And like you ksl I don't need anyone to tell me how to live this belief. Some of the most un-Christian people I've met in my life are the adult Catholics from my Primary Catholic school yrs and Catholics with whom I've worked as an adult. A complete turn off for me. I was brainwashed as a child with the 'you better love God or else' nonsense. Unforgiveable R.E. as I see it now. If the ship was going down I would pray like there's no tomorrow- but in my own way. _________________ 'Are you trying to tempt me because I come from the land of plenty?'
Need to say that it's easy to declare that one doesn't believe in God. Anyone can do that. No courage required. Proof is there. What we can't see is clearly NOT there.
Much harder and courageous to say that I believe in God (or a higher being) OR I believe that this scenario is possible.
Is it more courageous to just believe what you are told to (and therefore admit that others may know better than you, which is courageous), or to make a decision based on your own knowledge, knowing that it may have consequences if you are wrong (i.e. if you refuse to believe, knowing that you may go to hell)?
It isn't an easy question to answer. Descartes (I think it was him) said that everyone should believe in a supreme being because even if there's only a 1% chance (or whatever) of this being existing, should he exist then the payoff is either eternal salvation or damnation. Since the outcome is essentially infinitely good or bad, it's always worth believing no matter how small the chance may be. I imagine that lots of people go to church for the same reason - what's an hour a week when so much might be at stake?
To complicate matters, nobody really knows what the "required amount of devotion" to go to heaven is, even if such a thing exists. Is it enough to say you believe? Pray occasionally? Go to church every week? Help a less fortunate person once a week? Once a day? What if you can only go to heaven if you consciously think of the 10 Commandments (or similar for other religions) every time you want to do anything, and try your hardest to never break them? What if only priests, nuns, monks and other completely devoted individuals are allowed in? What if these people don't get in because they spend all their time purifying themselves and don't think about others? That would seriously suck, is all I can say.
Interesting premise but one that I cannot subscribe to.
From my view, if I live my life morally (and I do - at least comparatively so) and die, I will go to heaven if there is one. (at this juncture however, I believe more in ashes to ashes, dust to dust) But if there IS something else, I reckon my life will have held me in good stead and whether I believe in a "god" or not will not have any bearing on my transit if there is one. I doubt seriously, that a "god" would hold it against me (if in fact he does exist in some fashion other than the minds of mortal men) for not believing in a supreme being as long as I walk the earth with basically good acts & intentions. As far as the investment of time in going to church? What for? Use it to help someone, go to an old folks home for an hour and visit somebody who you don't even know. They will love you for it. You cannot buy your way. Going to church is a social function only. It's performance oriented and most that I see in churches are NOT that performance oriented when it come to helping their fellow man.
Is it more courageous to just believe what you are told to (and therefore admit that others may know better than you, which is courageous), or to make a decision based on your own knowledge, knowing that it may have consequences if you are wrong (i.e. if you refuse to believe, knowing that you may go to hell
Que ?! Not too sure that NON-BELIEVERS would be concerned about 'hell'. I'd be fairly sure that the whole 'heaven/hell/God' thing would be- in their minds- a concept for the 'looney lot'. Their decision to 'not believe' gets them off the hook very nicely indeed. No pressure, no guilt.
And to say that one believes in something that no-one can see does take courage. The non-believers could give you a really hard time and think you were mad. A guy I read about was killed for such statements ...what was his name again? Oh yeah- that's right- some bloke called Jesus. _________________ 'Are you trying to tempt me because I come from the land of plenty?'
The main problem with discussions about God, I believe, is that we talk about 'him' as if he were external to us. If we understood 'God' in the same way we understand 'humanity', the view shifts immediately.
Humanity is much bigger than any individual human being, yet every single individual human being is an important component of humanity. Each of us carries within ourselves the essence of what humanity is, but no individual can claim to speak for humanity as a whole.
In the same way, there IS something bigger than each of us, which we tend to call 'God'. Yet there would be no God if individual beings did not exist to ponder what God is. Each of us carries the spark of divinity within, yet no individual can claim to speak for God or know his mind.
And if God were truly God, he would be vast enough to absorb the 'rightness' of each of our views. So SMS would indeed 'go to' or already be in heaven. Ozchick indeed has courage to believe, Turtle has equal courage to not believe, and Andy's (beautifully said) ten commandments would be wholeheartedly endorsed.
God does not need to be 'right' and does not need to judge anyone 'wrong'. It's we humans who have need of the concepts of right and wrong, good and bad, heaven and hell. We make sense of the world through the mental construct of dualities but this does not mean dualities really exist. Is there really such a thing as hot and cold, light and darkness? Not really, we just need one to understand the meaning of its opposite.
Humanity does not take sides, but embraces all who are human. There is no right and wrong about being male or female, young or old, black or white. Neither does God take sides and pronounce one religion (which includes the religion of unbelief or any other belief system) right and another wrong, but instead embraces all souls.
Still, just as human will fight human and thus humanity remains divided, so soul will fight soul and religion continues to divide us. This tension is necessary for evolution and growth, and part of the dynamic of life. It is not to be resented and questioned, but to be celebrated with awe and wonder.
Trust me on this. I must be right because I'm Catholic.
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 7:59 am Post subject: Re: Faith
ozchick wrote:
Que ?! Not too sure that NON-BELIEVERS would be concerned about 'hell'. I'd be fairly sure that the whole 'heaven/hell/God' thing would be- in their minds- a concept for the 'looney lot'.
Well maybe openly - but there is often a tiny little bit of doubt. Throughout history, religions have thrived (even survived) in some way because of this threat, by "encouraging" otherwise-would-be non-believers to believe by making the potential reward or punishment so high. Yes, some people are able to banish all thoughts of it from their head, but I imagine it takes a lot of self-confidence. What if you're wrong? Maybe you're 99% sure that there's no god, but I think it's hard to be 100% certain as to what happens after death (if anything), since nobody has any evidence of that either way.
And tons of people have been killed for their beliefs, sure, but tons of people have been killed for other, non-religious beliefs, simply because the ruling power was against them. Yes of course it's courageous to still hold and share those beliefs knowing the consequences, but I'd say that's more because they're beliefs that you know are unpopular, rather than specifically because they can't be proven one way or another. Jesus was killed because the Romans found his actions and words to be threatening to their power, not because they thought he was a bit of a loony.
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Faith
Turtle wrote:
Yes, some people are able to banish all thoughts of it from their head, but I imagine it takes a lot of self-confidence. What if you're wrong? Maybe you're 99% sure that there's no god, but I think it's hard to be 100% certain as to what happens after death (if anything), since nobody has any evidence of that either way.
It doesn't take a lot of self-confidence. It only take self-confidence. Know thyself. Why would someone "naturally" doubt that which does not exist in the first place before believing in what "known" and is tangible. Why would someone believe in the unknown before believing in the known. Before you can do the 100% thing, you first have to accept that there is a soul (which is purely a fantasy construct of religion in the first place). Once one accepts that this is a fantasy of man's imagination, then the rest becomes easy. I know exactly what happens after death. In that aspect we are no different than any other species on the planet. _________________ . Helpful Links for Expats in Singapore
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Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: Re: Faith
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
Turtle wrote:
Yes, some people are able to banish all thoughts of it from their head, but I imagine it takes a lot of self-confidence. What if you're wrong? Maybe you're 99% sure that there's no god, but I think it's hard to be 100% certain as to what happens after death (if anything), since nobody has any evidence of that either way.
It doesn't take a lot of self-confidence. It only take self-confidence. Know thyself. Why would someone "naturally" doubt that which does not exist in the first place before believing in what "known" and is tangible. Why would someone believe in the unknown before believing in the known. Before you can do the 100% thing, you first have to accept that there is a soul (which is purely a fantasy construct of religion in the first place). Once one accepts that this is a fantasy of man's imagination, then the rest becomes easy. I know exactly what happens after death. In that aspect we are no different than any other species on the planet.
So you believe there is no soul? If so, how can you be sure its 'purely' a fantasy construct? I think the best any of us can ever say is "I believe it is..." And not say it is purely one thing or another -- there is just no way of knowing, and to write in such definitive terms is surely offensive to those whose beliefs are different. How is it you know what happens after death?
Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Faith
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
It doesn't take a lot of self-confidence. It only take self-confidence. Know thyself. Why would someone "naturally" doubt that which does not exist in the first place before believing in what "known" and is tangible. Why would someone believe in the unknown before believing in the known. Before you can do the 100% thing, you first have to accept that there is a soul (which is purely a fantasy construct of religion in the first place). Once one accepts that this is a fantasy of man's imagination, then the rest becomes easy. I know exactly what happens after death. In that aspect we are no different than any other species on the planet.
It's all about confidence, really. I think many people (self included) are risk averse and like going a bit further just to cover their bases. Once you start talking about critical things like death and what may or may not happen after, which is a natural fear anyway, people tend to get worried to some degree. Not all people, but I would say most people are in some way uncertain or worried about what happens after death, for themselves or loved ones.
To get down to it, religion is basically a confidence trick. The fella with the robes is trying to convince you that he knows better than you about what happens after death, when in reality he has no more information than you do. Whether you believe in a supreme being or not, no human has real secret special insider info that comes direct from god and that no one else knows.
It's kind of like the thing with those magnetic wristbands, if you've seen them. Doctors have proven that the magnetism isn't strong enough to go through your skin or whatever else, and there is no scientific way that they could have a beneficial impact on a person's physical health. Doesn't stop lots of people swearing by them and saying they heal things that ordinary medicine never could. Is it all in the mind? Maybe. But at the end of the day, for those and many other people, it's $10 for a piece of metal you wear, no banks are being broken. If it actually has an effect then great, if not, $10 for a chance of better health is always worth the risk. Does the salesman have some inside info that scientists can't get their hands on? Clearly not, but for the would-be buyer, the risk/reward payoff is such that many people say "why not" and buy it.
Last edited by Turtle on Tue Apr 29, 2008 9:59 am; edited 1 time in total
See it everyday, for example, if you are a chicken or a cow, a bit of hot grilling and some BBQ chili sauce.
Even though we see death every day, we do not see or know what happens to the spirit of the soul, if there is such a thing, maybe it dies with us, maybe not.
Although its first when we start to become old, that we wonder about death....when one is over 50, the odds of making it to 60, seem a great deal more reduced, as time goes by, this we see, when our friends suddenly pass on, some suddenly, some in pain, having faith is self comfort, more than anything.
Although WIMH appears to be on the right track for me, although i am a none practising catholic, humanity is much more balanced way of looking at life in this day and age. what is right and what is wrong is the fundimental basis of deciding ones path and destiny. _________________ http://www.drinkingvinegar.com
See it everyday, for example, if you are a chicken or a cow, a bit of hot grilling and some BBQ chili sauce.
Even though we see death every day, we do not see or know what happens to the spirit of the soul, if there is such a thing, maybe it dies with us, maybe not.
Although its first when we start to become old, that we wonder about death....when one is over 50, the odds of making it to 60, seem a great deal more reduced, as time goes by, this we see, when our friends suddenly pass on, some suddenly, some in pain, having faith is self comfort, more than anything.
Although WIMH appears to be on the right track for me, although i am a none practising catholic, humanity is much more balanced way of looking at life in this day and age. what is right and what is wrong is the fundimental basis of deciding ones path and destiny.
KSL
Why is it when ever people talk about religion they loose their humour ?
No point thinking too hard about life and its rich tapestry. The best brains over the millenniums have been trying to figure it out,
The best way to enlightenment, is when people figure out there is no answer. Zip, In fact there are plenty of more useful ways to use your mind and effort, go and buy a frog from the market and let it free.
Why is it when ever people talk about religion they loose their humour ?
Just be careful you don't lose your manners and graciousness. When anyone speaks in absolutes in the context of religion it smacks of condescension. As you said, it's a great big 'what if' so why not admit we don't have all the answers? I don't want anyone telling me the best way to enlightenment, that is a personal journey.
The universe and the black hole exsist, the planets are within a well balanced axis, and any damage caused to the mixture of gases or planets earths ionosphere will have corrective answers, were there is a cause, there will be an effect...
There is no doubt something called god in my mind, although I don't see any connection to religion. We have been bestowed with brains, that think, although some better than others, so evolution is more about standing on your own two feet, rather than following some idealistic theory of a religous god.
We know humanity is better than war and killing, although the creators of war, are still genetically evolving and adapting to calls of humanity.
The power of religion is to empower the mind, body and soul, for a purpose, of political idealogies, no less, that is why confrontation exsists in my opinion, if all, embraced humanity and one religion, life would be more bareable, however, the world would explode with over population and cause and effects would be implemented, to eradicate life.
Life must be balanced I guess, so there will always be work to do, to improve humanity and love.
The problem i see, with many Countries, like the US, UK, is without doubt unequal, the power is held, and not shared with its people, they call it democracy, religions help, to keep it all in place especially the power over the people. This in my opinion is why so much confrontation exsists between Countries, the less wealthy ones, have always been exploited in one way or another, and even the locals of super powers, are kept in place, by the powers of the leaders.
Politics are shared, between one party or a few, and if they don't play the game, they will be squashed. Having faith is a natural thought process, for a better life, although we are conned into that belief.
In reality on must just have faith in oneself, to live the life, in a good way, otherwise, the cause and effect, will eventually punish you. Even innocent people have condemed to a life of misery, or framed for something they have never done, having faith in oneself, is the most important of all, I seldom have faith in religion, but i have faith in god, becuase god is myself, I am apart of the universe, no matter how small.
The billions of humans have an effect on the planet through industry, and the planet, well repay, the humans back with a reminder, that you must look after the planet,or the god will be very angry! We live in perfect harmony within the solar system, which god created, maybe with a big bang, however, things evolved into life.
There is a great deal more to life, than just working 12 hours a day, for money, although we all need, money, for some its never enough.
So humans get locked into their own little cycles, not noticing what else is happening in the world, they discover nothing about living, about the birds and the bees, nature, the beauty of animals, birds, and everything else, that surrounds us.
I notice it more in Asia, because people are focussed on work, and exploitation of others, to get power, wealth, without giving back to the people. Its kind of like governments holding a carrot, infront of your face, but you will never be equal to those in control.
One reason why I have faith in myself to survive, but not in my Country, to provide for me. Just my opinion, although my mind is kept open! _________________ http://www.drinkingvinegar.com
Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Faith
road.not.taken wrote:
QRM wrote:
Why is it when ever people talk about religion they loose their humour ?
Just be careful you don't lose your manners and graciousness. When anyone speaks in absolutes in the context of religion it smacks of condescension. As you said, it's a great big 'what if' so why not admit we don't have all the answers? I don't want anyone telling me the best way to enlightenment, that is a personal journey.
Know thyself. I know myself, I know what I think. If I speak in absolutes it's because I believe it absolutely. If I am wrong then "I" suffer the consequences - it's no skin off your nose. If you don't like it. Tough. I didn't write it to please or get your highness' approval. If you think it or this is condescending, too bad. _________________ . Helpful Links for Expats in Singapore
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Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: Faith
sundaymorningstaple wrote:
road.not.taken wrote:
QRM wrote:
Why is it when ever people talk about religion they loose their humour ?
Just be careful you don't lose your manners and graciousness. When anyone speaks in absolutes in the context of religion it smacks of condescension. As you said, it's a great big 'what if' so why not admit we don't have all the answers? I don't want anyone telling me the best way to enlightenment, that is a personal journey.
Know thyself. I know myself, I know what I think. If I speak in absolutes it's because I believe it absolutely. If I am wrong then "I" suffer the consequences - it's no skin off your nose. If you don't like it. Tough. I didn't write it to please or get your highness' approval. If you think it or this is condescending, too bad.
Blah, blah, blah.
blah, blah.
Here's a thought! Use your words to say: this is what I think, not this is how it is. Honestly SMS, use your damn head!
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I think I'd better just get on with this life as it is first, not like there isn't enough to do here.
, so much for the education here, but its no dafter than some educated westerners, really think Jesus walked on water, and was born as a result of immaculate conception.
